TfL wheelchair priority

[Tetchytyke]

It's worth pointing out that buses before about 2000 were all step entrance with a central pole so ALL buggies had to be folded.

Older buses also had sufficient luggage space in which to store the folded buggies.

Where, on a modern London bus, can you actually store a folded buggy?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Have a look at photos of early low boarding buses and and you will regularly see the benefits of them shown, such as pictures of buggies and wheelchairs

People folded buggies because they had to, not because they wanted to. And then suddenly the bus companies said "now you don't have to!"

Edit: here's a perfect example on flickr. A Stagecoach bus branded as "Lo Liner", with a Lo Liner logo that includes not a wheelchair, but a buggy.

And you don't have to. Unless a wheelchair user wishes to board, at which point you do. So if you're purchasing a buggy for use on the bus, best purchase one where that is practical, which will be a different design to one intended for use in a car.

Anyone who doesn't understand why wheelchair > buggy (aside from niche "RUK Standard Minority" cases like a disabled child still in a buggy as it's easier than a wheelchair) is really just being a bit entitled to be honest. It's directly analogous to people who put their bags on seats and refuse to move them even where someone else offers to assist putting them in the rack.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 12:53 ==

Where, on a modern London bus, can you actually store a folded buggy?

If the bus isn't full it can be tucked between seats. If the bus is full then you're going to end up in the "wheelchair user can't board because there isn't any space to fit them on" situation anyway given that they take up the space of 3-4 standees (this figure is not just practical but also normally reflected on the capacity plate). A situation where 100% of the seats are occupied but there are no standees is fairly rare (in my experience the rear facing seats downstairs at the back are very rarely occupied other than by peoples' feet), and to be honest I would stand to allow that situation to take place if it meant the difference between a wheelchair user boarding or not.

In short by way of a bit of shuffling around of people it can be made to work, and in my experience somewhere like rural Yorkshire always is made to work - but self-entitlement does tend to pervade London a bit at times.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If the bus isn't full it can be tucked between seats.

It can't, there isn't room. Look at the legroom on modern London buses. And if you put a buggy on the seats everyone will complain about the wheels soiling the seat.

And, in any case, the seats where you'd be able to put a folded buggy usually have people sitting in them and- even more importantly- they're usually the people who can't really be expected to stand up or go upstairs to an empty seat.

Older buses had a large luggage rack over the front wheel arch, some even had a smaller luggage rack under the stairwell. You don't see that on modern buses, especially in London, where they have (understandably) chosen to cram more seats in.

 

[35B]

Part of it is the choice of types of buggy. All fold now at least, nobody uses a classic Silver Cross, but the folding ones are much more substantial than those you used to have.

It's worth pointing out that buses before about 2000 were all step entrance with a central pole so ALL buggies had to be folded. And they were folded. People did what was necessary, helping each other if needed, but nowadays entitlement is what pervades, unfortunately.

There's a reason why the old Maclarens are much rarer now - as anyone whose used them will know when comparing them to the off-roaders. There is also the not so minor point that with small children come clutter, and that trips with the buggy tend to be multi-purpose, so managing bags is part of the drill. Which I also remember from my childhood.

I'm sure there is entitled behaviour, but in the real world, a positive step forward (low floor buses) has been accompanied by a new friction point as the benefits have been seen by a wider range of groups, not just the wheelchair bound

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's a reason why the old Maclarens are much rarer now - as anyone whose used them will know when comparing them to the off-roaders. There is also the not so minor point that with small children come clutter, and that trips with the buggy tend to be multi-purpose, so managing bags is part of the drill. Which I also remember from my childhood.

I'm sure there is entitled behaviour, but in the real world, a positive step forward (low floor buses) has been accompanied by a new friction point as the benefits have been seen by a wider range of groups, not just the wheelchair bound

True.

In reality the only way to properly deal with it is probably to have separate wheelchair and buggy spaces, with neither allowed to be for the other, and neither permitted to board if their dedicated space is taken. The trouble is that with a 2/3 door bus there isn't really the room unless you go tri-axle or have almost no downstairs seats.

 

[BuhSnarf]

It's worth pointing out that buses before about 2000 were all step entrance with a central pole so ALL buggies had to be folded. And they were folded. People did what was necessary, helping each other if needed, but nowadays entitlement is what pervades, unfortunately.

And therefore many disabled and buggy users pre-2000 just didn't take the bus because either they couldn't get in at all (wheelchair) or the faff was too high (buggy.) I remember pre-low floors I would have usuaully ended up getting a taxi with my eldest to avoid the bus.

Also, as a whole buggies now are bigger. You can't put a baby in a stroller as it's bad for head support plus most buggies now are also "travel systems" which increases the bulk as a main bulky part of the buggy is also a non-foldable car seat. You can say that people should chose different buggies, but when buggies cost upwards of £100 if you take a mixture of car and bus you don't want to be buying two different buggies depending on what mode of transport you use. Plus what if you take the bus to town but are getting a taxi / lift back.

I'm not in anyway defending people refusing to move for a wheelchair as I certainly would try my hardest to do so, but I do also have sympathy for those parents who find it hard - although there's certainly no need for rudeness.

Anyone who doesn't understand why wheelchair > buggy (aside from niche "RUK Standard Minority" cases like a disabled child still in a buggy as it's easier than a wheelchair) is really just being a bit entitled to be honest. It's directly analogous to people who put their bags on seats and refuse to move them even where someone else offers to assist putting them in the rack.

I don't think anyone in here is saying that a buggy is above a wheelchair, I think they're trying to explain it's not always as easy as you're making out. As a non-bus using parent it's pretty entitled to waive away any concerns raised by parents.

If the bus isn't full it can be tucked between seats.

I'm not sure what buses you're travelling on, or what buggy you've used but apart from sitting on the front row there's no way a buggy is fitting between the seats along with you as the parent and child.

In short by way of a bit of shuffling around of people it can be made to work, and in my experience somewhere like rural Yorkshire always is made to work - but self-entitlement does tend to pervade London a bit at times.

That's a bit of a sweeping statement to say that people in Yorkshire are accommodating but those in London are not. A bus in rural Yorkshire is unlikely to be facing the same time / usage pressure of those in London. Also, it's likely that another London bus will be along within the next 15 minutes, whilst in Yorkshire that next bus may be another hour or two, so it's more critical to make it work on that original bus, rather than ask someone to wait for the next one.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 13:16 ==

True.

In reality the only way to properly deal with it is probably to have separate wheelchair and buggy spaces, with neither allowed to be for the other. The trouble is that with a 2/3 door bus there isn't really the room unless you go tri-axle or have almost no downstairs seats.

The issue with that is that if you already have a wheelchaired user on but a spare buggy space you're effectively leaving a wheelchaired user behind just to keep a space free. And of course, vice versa.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The issue with that is that if you already have a wheelchaired user on but a spare buggy space you're effectively leaving a wheelchaired user behind just to keep a space free. And of course, vice versa.

A dedicated buggy space can be much smaller than a wheelchair space to be fair. There are the articulated lorry sized double buggies but these are much bigger than even an electric wheelchair (more the size of a mobility scooter) and so really are not suitable for safe carriage on a bus just as you can't take a tandem bicycle on a train. They also are in a small minority of buggies, as unless you have twins you're unlikely to have a situation of two children the same sort of size so as to fit one.

If people won't or can't be accommodating to the lawful priority of wheelchair users, then keeping their space free is the only way, as is increasingly the rule on trains where shared space is now near enough gone, you have dedicated space for bikes and wheelchair users now. If there's space for one of each designed specifically for that use and always kept free for that use, then that seems the fairest approach, particularly as if you make it first come first served for a shared space wheelchair users end up disadvantaged because there are fewer of them than buggy users. And the logical extension of an argument that the one greater in number should win is just to take it all out and put seats in, as the majority of people with disabilities can walk, just not very far and not stand for long (i.e. the vast majority of elderly people) - and I think we'd agree that wouldn't be right?

 

[BuhSnarf]

A dedicated buggy space can be much smaller than a wheelchair space to be fair. There are the articulated lorry sized double buggies but these are much bigger than even an electric wheelchair (more the size of a mobility scooter) and so really are not suitable for safe carriage on a bus. They also are in a small minority of buggies, as unless you have twins you're unlikely to have a situation of two children the same sort of size so as to fit one.

If people won't or can't be accommodating to the lawful priority of wheelchair users, then keeping their space free is the only way, as is increasingly the rule on trains where shared space is now near enough gone, you have dedicated space for bikes and wheelchair users now.

A dedicated buggy space though, in practice, would actually just be the same size as you've got to have the tip up seat for the parent to sit next to etc. So again, you've got that problem that if a wheelchair user is using the space and another one wants to get on at the next stop you're restricting them because a buggy might want that space which they can fit in to. That doesn't feel like a step forward.

Unfortunately, whatever solution is decided upon is always going to have flash points as there will always be circumstances that arise that mean someone can't sit/stand/be placed where they want.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A dedicated buggy space though, in practice, would actually just be the same size as you've got to have the tip up seat for the parent to sit next to etc.

You haven't, the space can be directly next to a pair of fixed forward facing conventional seats which can be marked as priority for those with buggies but used by others at other times.

So again, you've got that problem that if a wheelchair user is using the space and another one wants to get on at the next stop you're restricting them because a buggy might want that space which they can fit in to. That doesn't feel like a step forward.

All the options are a compromise, but the one with least conflict is always the best, which means dedicated spaces for different types of user. (As an aside it's one reason I hate blinds on train windows - they are just a source of unnecessary conflict - and why I oppose tip up seats in all contexts).

 

[BuhSnarf]

You haven't, the space can be directly next to a pair of fixed forward facing conventional seats which can be marked as priority for those with buggies but used by others at other times.

And what happens when those sitting in that space do not wish to relinquish the space for the parent?

All the options are a compromise, but the one with least conflict is always the best, which means dedicated spaces for different types of user. (As an aside it's one reason I hate blinds on train windows - they are just a source of unnecessary conflict - and why I oppose tip up seats in all contexts).

I think we already have the option with the least conflict. The ones being proposed in this thread would likely cause more areas of conflict than the situation we currently have which whilst not perfect by any means does mean that in majority of cases the space is effectively used and wheelchair / buggy users can board a bus. It also doesn't require re-designing all currently in service buses.

It's likely we arrived at this situation after much customer and the intended users (wheelchair/parents) consultation.

 

[35B]

True.

In reality the only way to properly deal with it is probably to have separate wheelchair and buggy spaces, with neither allowed to be for the other, and neither permitted to board if their dedicated space is taken. The trouble is that with a 2/3 door bus there isn't really the room unless you go tri-axle or have almost no downstairs seats.

That logic will take us down the road of fewer buses, serving fewer routes, and with reduced access to public transport for those who need it most - which may not just be those reliant on wheelchairs.

An acceptance that society's interest is best served by rubbing along together, and supporting practical compromise will do a lot more than an approach based on each group having their own dedicated spaces. Which takes us full circle to public transport providers briefing their staff effectively on the law, supporting them when they do it (and challenging them when they don't).

 

[styles]

Here is a video doing the rounds on Twitter

Saskia (@Saskiaaa_____) on X

The social decline of Britain continues. This is a thing right now, I'm seeing more & more of these videos. Wheelchair users aren't able to access public transport spaces where they are supposed to take priority because of arrogant parents with their damn buggies. Entitled! You

x.com

A father with their son in a wheelchair are denied boarding from a London bus while multiple buggies occupy the wheelchair area. The driver tells the father that priority only applies “if the space is empty”.

The father asks the driver to “let control know”.

There is general out-roar from members of the public towards the father, demanding he “get off the bus” and informing him there’s “one behind”.

Couple of odd things struck me watching this.

The first is that a priority space isn't a priority if it only applies when the space is empty. That's just first come first served.

The second is that as the bus departs it looks like there may have even been space for the buggies to be kept unfolded and space made for the wheelchair in the wheelchair space, and indeed by the end of the video the wheelchair space had been emptied.

 

[mayneway]

Here is a video doing the rounds on Twitter

Saskia (@Saskiaaa_____) on X

The social decline of Britain continues. This is a thing right now, I'm seeing more & more of these videos. Wheelchair users aren't able to access public transport spaces where they are supposed to take priority because of arrogant parents with their damn buggies. Entitled! You

x.com

A father with their son in a wheelchair are denied boarding from a London bus while multiple buggies occupy the wheelchair area. The driver tells the father that priority only applies “if the space is empty”.

The father asks the driver to “let control know”.

There is general out-roar from members of the public towards the father, demanding he “get off the bus” and informing him there’s “one behind”.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make further up the thread. Firstly it’s clear from the video the passengers are unwilling to vacate the space, and secondly is it really safe for the driver to exit the cab to try and make room.
Imagine being in the position where your forced to get out of the cab to try and force these people to move or get off the bus - it’s not going to happen.

 

[3rd rail land]

This is exactly the point I was trying to make further up the thread. Firstly it’s clear from the video the passengers are unwilling to vacate the space, and secondly is it really safe for the driver to exit the cab to try and make room.
Imagine being in the position where your forced to get out of the cab to try and force these people to move or get off the bus - it’s not going to happen.

At best the driver will make an announcement for the buggy to vacate the wheelchair space, they may even ask a 2nd time if the buggy is not moved from the wheelchair space at the first time of asking.
If the buggy is not moved the drive presumably won't allow the wheelchair user to board as there is nowhere for them to go.

Realistically this is as much as the driver can do. The driver isn't going to hold the bus at the stop until the buggy is moved or get out of the cab and attempt to force the buggy off the vehicle. I doubt control/management would support the driver in such either of these scenarios and anyway it won't necessarily resolve the issue. The law may say that the wheelchair user has priority in such a situation but in reality it can at times be impossible to enforce for a variety of reasons.

 

[mayneway]

At best the driver will make an announcement for the buggy to vacate the wheelchair space, they may even ask a 2nd time if the buggy is not moved from the wheelchair space at the first time of asking.
If the buggy is not moved the drive presumably won't allow the wheelchair user to board as there is nowhere for them to go.

Realistically this is as much as the driver can do. The driver isn't going to hold the bus at the stop until the buggy is moved or get out of the cab and attempt to force the buggy off the vehicle. I doubt control/management would support the driver in such either of these scenarios and anyway it won't necessarily resolve the issue. The law may say that the wheelchair user has priority in such a situation but in reality it can at times be impossible to enforce for a variety of reasons.

I agree in principle. But in reality the passengers can clearly see what’s going on. If the driver asks are they really going to suddenly fold the buggy and move from the space?

The driver opens the cab door and immediately looses all protection. If she’s assaulted she’s got zero grounds because she’s done what we are all told not too and opened her door. It’s a catch 22.

In an ideal world the passengers should see someone wants to get on with a wheel chair and make room but they won’t, and I can bet in 90% of situations even when asked by the driver they refuse.

Society has changed massively since Covid and it’s only going to get worse.

 

[mangad]

Let's be blunt, angry people waving phone cameras around does little to help the situation either.

I do feel for the driver in that video. She's ended up in a no win scenario.

 

[Mattplans]

I do feel for the driver in that video. She's ended up in a no win scenario.

Just wasn't very clear in the video if she made any effort to ask them to fold the buggy prior to the recording. She has a fatal misunderstanding of the policy ("Priority only applies if the space is empty" - wtf does this even mean, in what world is that "Priority"?) so I struggle to sympathise with her on this basis. Maybe if there was evidence of her at least attempting to do her job I would 'feel for her'.

She basically enables the behaviour of the other passengerz which leaves them feeling emboldened enough to shout at the parent of this mobility impaired child.
The video captions the driver by their company, but it's pretty clear this is a TfL-wide issue and there doesn't seem to be the desire to have it resolved through proper training or guidance towards them on this matter. Like many matters, it seems the Mayor of London is happier to let them fade out of the public eye rather than acting decisively.

 

[mangad]

Just wasn't very clear in the video if she made any effort to ask them to fold the buggy prior to the recording. She has a fatal misunderstanding of the policy ("Priority only applies if the space is empty" - wtf does this even mean, in what world is that "Priority"?) so I struggle to sympathise with her on this basis. Maybe if there was evidence of her at least attempting to do her job I would 'feel for her'.

If she had communicated in a different way, would the result been any different? I seriously doubt it. At least she was calm and collected.

She pointed out there was another bus behind. She was however unable to do the magic thing of magically get the passengers for behave differently all whilst someone is waving a camera in front of her.

And rightly or wrongly, if I was a passenger and someone started filming me on a bus, well my sympathy for their cause would go right down.

The correct behaviour in these scenarios is simply to get the vehicle/driver details and complain to the management. Because realistically what did filming it in this manner achieve? Frankly I would have been close to taking the phone from his hand and telling him to stop if I was a passenger.

If you want to make a point by filming things, better to do it as a hidden camera and act normally. You make your point much more strongly that way.

 

[Man of Kent]

"Priority only applies if the space is empty" - wtf does this even mean

This is pretty much what the legislation says in writing. From The Public Service Vehicles (Conduct of Drivers, Inspectors, Conductors and Passengers) Regulations 1990 (as amended) (and my bolding):

Duties towards wheelchair users of Schedule 1 vehicles

12.—(1) This regulation applies (subject to regulation 15(1) (duties requiring the proper functioning of equipment)) in relation to a driver and a conductor of a Schedule 1 vehicle.

(2) If there is an unoccupied wheelchair space on the vehicle, a driver and a conductor shall allow a wheelchair user to board if—

(a)the wheelchair is of a type or size that can be correctly and safely located in that wheelchair space, and

(b)in so doing, neither the maximum seating nor standing capacity of the vehicle would be exceeded.

(3) For the purpose of paragraph (2), a wheelchair space is occupied if—

(a)there is a wheelchair user in that space; or

(b)passengers or their effects are in that space and they or their effects cannot readily and reasonably vacate it by moving to another part of the vehicle.

 

[mayneway]

She basically enables the behaviour of the other passengerz which leaves them feeling emboldened enough to shout at the parent of this mobility impaired child.
The video captions the driver by their company, but it's pretty clear this is a TfL-wide issue and there doesn't seem to be the desire to have it resolved through proper training or guidance towards them on this matter. Like many matters, it seems the Mayor of London is happier to let them fade out of the public eye rather than acting decisively.

How does she enable the behaviour? Had she closed the doors and drove off she’s in the wrong, she stayed and spoke to the guy and she’s in the wrong.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 22:19 ==

If she had communicated in a different way, would the result been any different? I seriously doubt it. At least she was calm and collected.

She pointed out there was another bus behind. She was however unable to do the magic thing of magically get the passengers for behave differently all whilst someone is waving a camera in front of her.

And rightly or wrongly, if I was a passenger and someone started filming me on a bus, well my sympathy for their cause would go right down.

The correct behaviour in these scenarios is simply to get the vehicle/driver details and complain to the management. Because realistically what did filming it in this manner achieve? Frankly I would have been close to taking the phone from his hand and telling him to stop if I was a passenger.

If you want to make a point by filming things, better to do it as a hidden camera and act normally. You make your point much more strongly that way.

Common sense, I salute you.

Watching the video it’s clear he’s antagonising the situation to make the video as long as he can, the longer it is the more he makes on tik tok.
The driver remedies the situation calmly saying there’s a bus behind, he had no interest in getting the bus behind and carried on trying to bait the driver.

 

[joieman]

Duties towards wheelchair users of Schedule 1 vehicles

12.—(1) This regulation applies (subject to regulation 15(1) (duties requiring the proper functioning of equipment)) in relation to a driver and a conductor of a Schedule 1 vehicle.

(2) If there is an unoccupied wheelchair space on the vehicle, a driver and a conductor shall allow a wheelchair user to board if—

(a)the wheelchair is of a type or size that can be correctly and safely located in that wheelchair space, and

(b)in so doing, neither the maximum seating nor standing capacity of the vehicle would be exceeded.

(3) For the purpose of paragraph (2), a wheelchair space is occupied if—

(a)there is a wheelchair user in that space; or

(b)passengers or their effects are in that space and they or their effects cannot readily and reasonably vacate it by moving to another part of the vehicle.

I think that settles it!

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm not convinced that a male driver grabbing, holding and lifting a female passenger and putting her off a bus would not be classed as assault. But as you say, it doesn't and will not happen.

Entirely lawful to use reasonable force to remove a person who is now trespassing. Gender is not relevant.

 

[3rd rail land]

Entirely lawful to use reasonable force to remove a person who is now trespassing. Gender is not relevant.

If the law permits it then you are correct. However I suspect that there would an outcry, numerous complaints to the bus company and I can't imagine management would support the driver. Its never going to happen, lawful or not.

Lets be realistic, if a parent refuses to move a buggy upon request the driver is going to deny boarding to the wheelchair user citing lack of space on the bus. You can't expect a driver to do any more than that.

 

[AlterEgo]

If the law permits it then you are correct. However I suspect that there would an outcry, numerous complaints to the bus company and I can't imagine management would support the driver. Its never going to happen, lawful or not.

Lets be realistic, if a parent refuses to move a buggy upon request the driver is going to deny boarding to the wheelchair user citing lack of space on the bus. You can't expect a driver to do any more than that.

Lawfully the driver has to do.more than make a casual request. Obviously no driver is going to forcibly remove a buggy and parent even if it would be lawful to do so. But they have to do more than just ask.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

Entirely lawful to use reasonable force to remove a person who is now trespassing. Gender is not relevant.

Lawful doesn't mean acceptable, any member of staff manhandling anyone except for the immediate physical safety of passengers (either through their own action such as stepping into traffic or towards others such as an assault) is likely to find themselves on the end of a serious misconduct charge (and likely dismissal).

Lawfully the driver has to do.more than make a casual request. Obviously no driver is going to forcibly remove a buggy and parent even if it would be lawful to do so. But they have to do more than just ask.

All they can do is ask, they may be expected to do so forcibly and authoritatively but they can only ask. If the person occupying the space refuses to move, and on London buses with a lot of pushchairs there isn't any way to move them, and the disabled person refuses to accept waiting for the next bus then all the driver can do is turn off the bus and call for assistance which almost certainly won't come as bus companies don't have the staff and police won't attend unless there is threat to person generally. The risk is that in doing this the other passengers turn against either or both of the parent or wheelchair user and things can get even more difficult at that point.

 

[AlterEgo]

Lawful doesn't mean acceptable, any member of staff manhandling anyone except for the immediate physical safety of passengers (either through their own action such as stepping into traffic or towards others such as an assault) is likely to find themselves on the end of a serious misconduct charge (and likely dismissal).

All they can do is ask, they may be expected to do so forcibly and authoritatively but they can only ask

Indeed. They do have to put a sincere effort into the endeavour. There is no guarantee they will be successful though, agreed.

. If the person occupying the space refuses to move, and on London buses with a lot of pushchairs there isn't any way to move them, and the disabled person refuses to accept waiting for the next bus then all the driver can do is turn off the bus and call for assistance

They don't even need to do this in my view. The driver simply needs to ask, firmly, more than once reminding the occupants they are in a priority space. If they aren't going to move by then, no assistance will shift them, so just advise the wheelchair user of the next service and apologise. (By "just ask" there I meant the bare minimum of asking once with no weight behind the request)

Don't get me wrong, the bus driver can't win here and the law is grossly imperfect. But it isn't the first time the Supreme Court have declared something loftily to be the law and yet pay no heed to how the law can practically be enforced. (In fairness, the latter part is not their job)

 

[londonbridge]

I’ve seen arguments between wheel chair users over which of them has the space on the bus

This reminds me of a social media post I saw a while ago now, two mothers with buggies were waiting at the bus stop, when the bus arrived there were two buggies already in the wheelchair/buggy space, so the driver refused to let either of the mothers on. One of them then walked to the previous bus stop. Next bus came along with one buggy already in the space, so the mother was allowed on. Bus then went straight past the next stop where the second mother was still waiting and didn’t get on that bus either…..

 

[Goldfish62]

Just to add a bit of balance to things...

I use London's buses regularly. I'd say around 1 in 10 of my trips has a wheelchair on board. In the last 3-4 years I've only seen one wheelchair user unable to board - and that was because there was already a wheelchair on board.

What I have seen plenty of times is, unprompted, people with buggies and luggage moving from the wheelchair space as soon as they're aware of an intending wheelchair user wanting to board.

There's doubtless the occasional issue which of course shouldn't happen, but it's not remotely on the scale that anyone reading this thread may think it might be.

 

[mayneway]

Just to add a bit of balance to things...

I use London's buses regularly. I'd say around 1 in 10 of my trips has a wheelchair on board. In the last 3-4 years I've only seen one wheelchair user unable to board - and that was because there was already a wheelchair on board.

What I have seen plenty of times is, unprompted, people with buggies and luggage moving from the wheelchair space as soon as they're aware of an intending wheelchair user wanting to board.

There's doubtless the occasional issue which of course shouldn't happen, but it's not remotely on the scale that anyone reading this thread may think it might be.

As a driver in Manchester this is the norm where people try and move out of the space, I’ve also had it on a couple of occasions where wheel chair users have stopped me, spotted the bay is occupied by prams and insisted on waiting for the next bus.

This just makes me more convinced that there are people out there armed with cameras looking for situations to film and make money on.

 

[Goldfish62]

As a driver in Manchester this is the norm where people try and move out of the space, I’ve also had it on a couple of occasions where wheel chair users have stopped me, spotted the bay is occupied by prams and insisted on waiting for the next bus.

This just makes me more convinced that there are people out there armed with cameras looking for situations to film and make money on.

Exactly my thoughts as well.