Southeastern staff claimed Anytime ticket tied to specific train

[Medicy]

Hello all,

My wife had an upsetting experience on Southeastern yesterday and I was looking for advice.

Travelling back from Canterbury West - Ashford International, her ticket (attached below) wouldn't work the barriers at Canterbury. The ticket was an Anytime Day Return bought via the Southeastern app. It has a suggested itinerary with a return time of 13:06 but obviously this isn't mandatory for an Anytime ticket.

She spoke to the barrier staff and they asked if she had used it already - she had not. They then looked at the ticket and said it was for the 13:06 train. My wife noted it was an Anytime ticket so another member of the barrier staff came over and said it was an Advance ticket. Despite my wife also showing a e-receipt stating this was an Anytime ticket, the barrier staff repeatedly said it was an Advance ticket and could only be used on the 13:06. My wife did ask if there was someone more senior to talk to but the second member of staff said they were the senior staff. My wife then had to buy a replacement ticket on her phone - actually two tickets, as she was so flustered she accidentally purchased an Ashford International - Canterbury West ticket before purchasing a Canterbury West - Ashford International ticket.

Furthermore, on the train, my wife spoke to the ticket inspector to confirm the situation, and was told she needed to make sure to buy the Anytime Day Return without a departure time on it because it having a departure time meant it was for that exact time and no other. I'm especially disappointed that the onboard staff didn't seem to understand this very basic aspect of ticketing.

We're now down the price of three tickets and my wife is very upset about the situation - is there anything we can do?

Picture: return portion of an e-ticket Canterbury West - Ashford International stating Anytime Day Return Standard dated yesterday.

 

[AlterEgo]

Unfortunately you encountered very thick and incompetent staff. They were all wrong.

Complain to Southeastern and demand a refund of the additional fares paid and some compensation for the hassle and gaslighting, as well as assurances they will brief their staff, assuming they can read.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello all,

My wife had an upsetting experience on Southeastern yesterday and I was looking for advice.

Travelling back from Canterbury West - Ashford International, her ticket (attached below) wouldn't work the barriers at Canterbury. The ticket was an Anytime Day Return bought via the Southeastern app. It has a suggested itinerary with a return time of 13:06 but obviously this isn't mandatory for an Anytime ticket.

She spoke to the barrier staff and they asked if she had used it already - she had not. They then looked at the ticket and said it was for the 13:06 train. My wife noted it was an Anytime ticket so another member of the barrier staff came over and said it was an Advance ticket. Despite my wife also showing a e-receipt stating this was an Anytime ticket, the barrier staff repeatedly said it was an Advance ticket and could only be used on the 13:06. My wife did ask if there was someone more senior to talk to but the second member of staff said they were the senior staff. My wife then had to buy a replacement ticket on her phone - actually two tickets, as she was so flustered she accidentally purchased an Ashford International - Canterbury West ticket before purchasing a Canterbury West - Ashford International ticket.

Furthermore, on the train, my wife spoke to the ticket inspector to confirm the situation, and was told she needed to make sure to buy the Anytime Day Return without a departure time on it because it having a departure time meant it was for that exact time and no other. I'm especially disappointed that the onboard staff didn't seem to understand this very basic aspect of ticketing.

We're now down the price of three tickets and my wife is very upset about the situation - is there anything we can do?

Picture: return portion of an e-ticket Canterbury West - Ashford International stating Anytime Day Return Standard dated yesterday.

appalling lack of staff knowledge

Perhaps agency workers who are clueless

 

[STINT47]

Most ticket buying sites require you to select an out and return train to create an itinerary. I'm not sure how staff expect passengers to not specify a train time if they buy online.

 

[MrJeeves]

I will say the Southeastern app is showing the ticket in the incorrect format (D10), which is intended for use with Advance tickets.

Absolutely no excuse for the staff to be completely incompetent, though.



RSPS3030: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/barcoded-ticketing-standards-freedom-of-information.299229/

 

[yorkie]

Southeastern should not only issue a refund for the monies erroneously charged, but also further compensation, an apology and an assurance that appropriate measures will be taken to ensure staff are adequately trained in future.

Feel free to draft a letter of complaint and post it here, if you'd like us to proofread it.

I will say the Southeastern app is showing the ticket in the incorrect format (D10), which is intended for use with Advance tickets.

Absolutely no excuse for the staff to be completely incompetent, though.

View attachment 210336

RSPS3030: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/barcoded-ticketing-standards-freedom-of-information.299229/

@Medicy who did you buy the ticket from? For future reference, this forum has a ticketing site that will issue tickets in the correct format, so the chances of badly trained staff who can't read properly thinking that the ticket is an Advance would be reduced.

Also, if anyone buys a ticket from us and is mistreated, we'd be very keen to intervene and lodge a complaint with the relevant company and provide enhanced support.

 

[gembercannelle]

who did you buy the ticket from? For future reference, this forum has a ticketing site that will issue tickets in the correct format, so the chances of badly trained staff who can't read properly thinking that the ticket is an Advance would be reduced.

In the opening post it reads that the ticket was bought from Southeastern app.

 

[speedy1]

I'd want to speak to the station manager for a sincere apology and to highlight that they have multiple incompetent people working at their station, causing liability (breach of contract) issues for the company.

Or: Google says a Steve White is the CEO. Could write a letter to him

After all, the railway takes transgressions by customers extremely seriously

 

[Haywain]

Google says a Steve White is the CEO.

He isn't, he's moved on. Or is due to quite soon.

 

[Mattplans]

Steve White is still MD of Southeastern/Kent route. I don't think an attempt to reach out would go amiss. I believe the MD of LNER was responsive to a very similar situation on the forum? Either way, I'm sure this matter can be dealt with by way of a formal complaint.

 

[gembercannelle]

It is probably a good idea for the OP send a SAR for CCTV records before they are erased.

 

[AlterEgo]

It is probably a good idea for the OP send a SAR for CCTV records before they are erased.

What for?

 

[Medicy]

Thanks all very much for the advice. I'll draft a letter of complaint as suggested, and post it here. We've not had to write a letter like this before so greatly appreciated! @yorkie I will definitely recommend the forum ticketing site for future use.

 

[Mattplans]

What for?

So they have video evidence of the encounter, for their own records?

Especially if the staff in question had Body Worn video Cameras. And especially if Southeastern go onto deny the wrongdoing of their staff/reject refund requests?

 

[jumble]

I'd want to speak to the station manager for a sincere apology and to highlight that they have multiple incompetent people working at their station, causing liability (breach of contract) issues for the company.

Or: Google says a Steve White is the CEO. Could write a letter to him

After all, the railway takes transgressions by customers extremely seriously

My experience of having quite a serious problem with another TOC is that the CEO could not even have the manners to reply let alone resolve

 

[Haywain]

Especially if the staff in question had Body Worn video Cameras. And especially if Southeastern go onto deny the wrongdoing of their staff/reject refund requests?

I'm not sure what you think CCTV will prove, without any sound.

My experience of having quite a serious problem with another TOC is that the CEO could not even have the manners to reply let alone resolve

Steve White is quite active on X, so I think it would be doubtful that it would be ignored.

 

[AlterEgo]

So they have video evidence of the encounter, for their own records?

Why? What would the silent CCTV which redacts the identity of staff show?

Especially if the staff in question had Body Worn video Cameras. And especially if Southeastern go onto deny the wrongdoing of their staff/reject refund requests?

Why would there be body worn footage of this encounter? These are turned on by RPIs if there's a dispute or they feel threatened. There is no suggestion of BWC footage here. That isn't how BWC footage works.

 

[Mattplans]

I'm not sure what you think CCTV will prove, without any sound.

Steve White is quite active on X, so I think it would be doubtful that it would be ignored.

Do BWCs not record sound ?

 

[Haywain]

Do BWCs not record sound ?

Not if they are not turned on.

 

[jumble]

I'm not sure what you think CCTV will prove, without any sound.

Steve White is quite active on X, so I think it would be doubtful that it would be ignored.

To be honest I have never heard of Steve White so you could very well be correct

 

[Mattplans]

Not if they are not turned on.

And we don’t know that they weren’t turned on?

If OP is unsure about this (whether the staff in question were wearing BWC and whether they were recording), surely it follows that the should submit the request anyway as there is a chance it might be fruitful?

And there’s little to lose? (Even if no BWC footage is available?)

I was under the impression it was common practice to set BWCs to record during fare irregularities, and their use is not exclusive to when staff feel threatened .

 

[Haywain]

I was under the impression it was common practice to set BWCs to record during fare irregularities,

I believe it is also standard practice to tell the person being challenged that they are being recorded. But not all staff wear such devices anyway.

 

[jumble]

I believe it is also standard practice to tell the person being challenged that they are being recorded. But not all staff wear such devices anyway.

I can assure you that from recent personal experience some LNER and Cross Country Revenue staff will not tell you that they are recording

 

[Mattplans]

I believe it is also standard practice to tell the person being challenged that they are being recorded. But not all staff wear such devices anyway.

That is correct, but OP has not stated whether that happened or not. So I am surprised members are able to declare with such conviction that it would not be a fruitful endeavour.

And the quite a lot (dare I say majority?) of customer facing Southeastern staff now have BWCs. The OPs account details encounters with numerous members of Southeastern staff and I would be surprised if at least one of them did not have a BWC.

CBW is also a station that I have seen security staff deployed at alongside gateline staff, who definitely all wear BWCs.

 

[Haywain]

I've posted a link to this thread to Steve White's X account, and have received this response:

Hi - I'm John - Head of Information Delivery here at SE. Thanks for making us aware of this conversation, I've reached out directly to the customer and we'll make sure we put this right. ^JT

 

[saismee]

Unfortunately you encountered very thick and incompetent staff. They were all wrong.

Quite thick indeed.

The way that ticket is displayed is quite misleading and I would've understood that to be an Advance Single at first glance too. I'm certain that a scan would flash up as VALID rather than a warning for the time restriction.

Even more disappointing that the on-board staff was wrong too. All around incompetence but I can unfortunately imagine a few particular colleagues of mine would make the same mistake, though probably would let the customer in with a warning about the time.

 

[Haywain]

Further to my linking the thread to Steve White's X account, I have now received a further response, as follows:

Hi John at South eastern. Will you be able to provide an update to show that the customer was correctly recompensed. The railway needs to show that when it gets it wrong, it is able to correctly r solve the situation

It would be good if @Medicy could confirm that the matter has been resolved.

 

[Parham Wood]

Further to my linking the thread to Steve White's X account, I have now received a further response, as follows:


It would be good if @Medicy could confirm that the matter has been resolved.

Hopefully they can also confirm that compensation was paid in addition to any refunds due.

 

[185143]

Hopefully they can also confirm that compensation was paid in addition to any refunds due.

Indeed.

I very much agree with the last point. There absolutely will be times where the railway gets things wrong. Find me any industry that doesn't mess up from time to time. But it's all down to how they've "made things right". Simply reimbursing the customer in my opinion isn't really adequate in such a basic case like this.