UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[styles]

My son just got his license and I insisted he learn in a manual. Firstly I think it makes you a much better driver as it requires a better level of coordination, and a more fundamental understanding of how a lot of cars on the road still work. Now those are opinions, but certainly for entry level first cars manuals are still cheaper to buy

Sure and I would always recommend people start learning a manual and see how they get on. But the dogmatic insistence on somebody continuing with manual when they're really struggling I think is misguided in 2026.

and if you are renting cars both in the UK and on the continent it's still pretty common for manuals to be the default rental choice.

I'm not sure I agree with this, or at least, we may have different ideas of what the 'default rental choice' is. I have actually in some countries only been able to hire automatics. I can't remember when I last hired a car and an automatic wasn't an option. I've even hired a number of SWB, MWB, and LWB automatic vans. I mean maybe if you rock up to a hire shop on the day you want a car you might find them lacking but this is getting into proper edge case territory in my view.

Also jobs wise it means he can drive any vehicle and there are plenty of entry level jobs out where driving a 15 year old manual commercial/ delivery vehicle is a requirement.

Are there? What jobs are these? Most companies don't hold onto fleet vehicles for 15 years.

Sure, if you want to drive lorries for a living then you'll need a manual licence, but my sister has had company cars for a number of employers now and, owing to the tax advantages of even hybrid EVs, they've been automatic for about a decade now, and she gets a new one every few years because the company doesn't want people driving around in old bangers.

I'm sure there are some jobs out there where you'll be given a 15 year old diesel but I imagine these are quite rare. Even for lorry cabs, the average lifespan of them is 11 years.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Sure and I would always recommend people start learning a manual and see how they get on. But the dogmatic insistence on somebody continuing with manual when they're really struggling I think is misguided in 2026.

I'm not sure I agree with this, or at least, we may have different ideas of what the 'default rental choice' is. I have actually in some countries only been able to hire automatics. I can't remember when I last hired a car and an automatic wasn't an option. I've even hired a number of SWB, MWB, and LWB automatic vans. I mean maybe if you rock up to a hire shop on the day you want a car you might find them lacking but this is getting into proper edge case territory in my view.

I recall being told rental firms have only a few autos just for people who cannot handle a manual. So yes, the later you book then the more chance you will be forced to accept a manual.

Are there? What jobs are these? Most companies don't hold onto fleet vehicles for 15 years.

Fork lifts ?. I have seen old diesel fork lifts kept for on site work. Still the operators had to have a driving licence.

Also I drove pretty old tractors back in the day - possible they were twenty years or more old. So there will still be plenty of manual ones around for simple trailer work these days. It was hop picking including decent stints out on the open road. The season only lasted for about five weeks per year. The tractors were quite obviously stored for the rest of the year so low mileage (hours) and general "barn find" looks. Most had near dead batteries requiring a shove by a working tractor every morning etc. Not forgetting easy start needed (spray in the air intake). Memories !.

Sure, if you want to drive lorries for a living then you'll need a manual licence, but my sister has had company cars for a number of employers now and, owing to the tax advantages of even hybrid EVs, they've been automatic for about a decade now, and she gets a new one every few years because the company doesn't want people driving around in old bangers.

I'm sure there are some jobs out there where you'll be given a 15 year old diesel but I imagine these are quite rare. Even for lorry cabs, the average lifespan of them is 11 years.

Can you imagine someone being confronted with an old gearbox with no synchro-mesh. I wonder how many can handle double de-clutching ?.
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[Bletchleyite]

I recall being told rental firms have only a few autos just for people who cannot handle a manual. So yes, the later you book then the more chance you will be forced to accept a manual.

I was hiring cars a fair bit towards the start of last year and an auto was typically significantly more expensive.

Can you imagine someone being confronted with an old gearbox with no synchro-mesh. I wonder how many can handle double de-clutching ?.

I learnt to do that when I had a Series 3 Land Rover with mashed synchros and I still do it sometimes (or just rev-match without the blip). Done well it is incredibly smooth.

 

[styles]

I recall being told rental firms have only a few autos just for people who cannot handle a manual. So yes, the later you book then the more chance you will be forced to accept a manual.

Be that as it may, I've just searched one rental company to pick up a vehicle tomorrow in Bangor and they have automatics available in everything from an economy compact car to a van. I could search other locations and other providers but I've literally just chosen the first one I came across and they have loads of availability to pick up as soon as they open. I really don't think it's an issue. You will pay slightly more, but then if you're really struggling to learn manual then the money saved on additional driving lessons will likely be offset anyway.

Fork lifts ?. I have seen old diesel fork lifts kept for on site work. Still the operators had to have a driving licence.

I was driving forklifts back in 2016 which were single or dual speed automatic. Like I say, I'm sure there's some places giving people 15 year old ICEs to drive but this is not common. If you've been given a 15 year old manual forklift you probably have bigger workplace problems!

Also I drove pretty old tractors back in the day - possible they were twenty years or more old. So there will still be plenty of manual ones around for simple trailer work these days. It was hop picking including decent stints out on the open road. The season only lasted for about five weeks per year. The tractors were quite obviously stored for the rest of the year so low mileage (hours) and general "barn find" looks. Most had near dead batteries requiring a shove by a working tractor every morning etc. Not forgetting easy start needed (spray in the air intake). Memories !.

Of course, and this is why I'd suggest people default to learning manual. But you're talking about 'old tractors back in the day'. Roughly 0.17% of the UK adult population are farmers. A significant number of those will be driving powershifts with automatic transmission. There's a niche hobbyist space for people driving old Ford tractors, but they're in a very small minority and not who I'd aim any advice at regarding driving lessons.

Can you imagine someone being confronted with an old gearbox with no synchro-mesh. I wonder how many can handle double de-clutching ?.
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Funnily enough, I had this on my car when the synchros packed in! I spent half an hour in Glasgow watching YouTube videos on how to drive a car with a borked clutch and then somehow managed to drive it about 4 miles to a garage. It was, well, an experience!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Wednesday at 23:33 ==

I was hiring cars a fair bit towards the start of last year and an auto was typically significantly more expensive.

Hiring 3 weeks in advance, for 8 days, the difference is £255 for an automatic vs £221 for a manual, at my local hire shop.

Hardly a bank breaker really.

 

[Peter Sarf]

.......................................

Of course, and this is why I'd suggest people default to learning manual. But you're talking about 'old tractors back in the day'. Roughly 0.17% of the UK adult population are farmers. A significant number of those will be driving powershifts with automatic transmission. There's a niche hobbyist space for people driving old Ford tractors, but they're in a very small minority and not who I'd aim any advice at regarding driving lessons.

Funnily enough, I had this on my car when the synchros packed in! I spent half an hour in Glasgow watching YouTube videos on how to drive a car with a borked clutch and then somehow managed to drive it about 4 miles to a garage. It was, well, an experience!

It was all the extra seasonal workers required at harvest time and the tractors that go with it. Still will be a minority and not really a career job tbh.

Yes a car with no clutch is "interesting" but do-able (poor old starter motor).

 

[styles]

It was all the extra seasonal workers required at harvest time and the tractors that go with it. Still will be a minority and not really a career job tbh.

I've never really worked farms, but may be worth mentioning that driving a tractor on private land which isn't a BOAT doesn't require a licence at all. The seasonal workers would need the relevant licence for driving on BOATs and "normal roads", and it would probably reduce the insurance costs if they had the necessary licence, but strictly speaking it's optional elsewhere

Funnily enough, a friend of mine moved to live on a farm in Scotland, in his late 50s, after having spent his whole life living in London, and spent a lot of his time driving tractors, tracked vehicles (mainly diggers) and road rollers, without the G/H entitlements.

 

[rangersac]

Sure and I would always recommend people start learning a manual and see how they get on. But the dogmatic insistence on somebody continuing with manual when they're really struggling I think is misguided in 2026.

I'm not sure I agree with this, or at least, we may have different ideas of what the 'default rental choice' is. I have actually in some countries only been able to hire automatics. I can't remember when I last hired a car and an automatic wasn't an option. I've even hired a number of SWB, MWB, and LWB automatic vans. I mean maybe if you rock up to a hire shop on the day you want a car you might find them lacking but this is getting into proper edge case territory in my view.

Are there? What jobs are these? Most companies don't hold onto fleet vehicles for 15 years.

Sure, if you want to drive lorries for a living then you'll need a manual licence, but my sister has had company cars for a number of employers now and, owing to the tax advantages of even hybrid EVs, they've been automatic for about a decade now, and she gets a new one every few years because the company doesn't want people driving around in old bangers.

I'm sure there are some jobs out there where you'll be given a 15 year old diesel but I imagine these are quite rare. Even for lorry cabs, the average lifespan of them is 11 years.

There are lots of countries where you can only hire automatics, but equally if you don't tick the box for an automatic and just book a car you can rock up and it will be a manual. The last time I hired a car was in Nottingham six months ago, I got assigned a manual Citroen C3.

As for jobs my son currently works casually at a hardware store on weekends, both of their delivery vehicles are manuals. I would imagine there are plenty of local businesses doing similar things, e.g garden centres, take away delivery vehicles etc.

 

[Violette]

Some of this is just nostalgia and stubbornness. It's quite common to hear parents and grandparents say they offspring must get a manual licence. Yet the majority of used and new cars on Autotrader today are automatic, most new car sales have been automatic for years. The lorry which is currently sat outside my house is automatic. Whenever I've been abroad hiring cars they've had automatics. Sure there's a place for a manual licence but honestly in 2026 it's not that important - it'll just mean your first car is pricier really.

The same will be true of those who are adamant that petrol cars are here to stay. They're technically right because they're clearly not going to be abolished any time soon, but their importance is massively exaggerated.

Oh yeah, you are right. I spoke to a few lorry drivers. They had to get used to driving automatic. Additionally, the lorry's feature driver's assist technology. Nice things to help them a long their journey. Less road accidents

 

[cactustwirly]

I've only driven an Automatic once and that felt very weird, my left foot wanted to press the brake pedal. I'd want to drive a manual if given the choice as that's easier for me

 

[Snow1964]

There are lots of countries where you can only hire automatics, but equally if you don't tick the box for an automatic and just book a car you can rock up and it will be a manual. The last time I hired a car was in Nottingham six months ago, I got assigned a manual Citroen C3.

We usually hire a car when we are on holiday. The last 4 years (in Naples, Tenerife, Alicante, Dalaman) have been given automatics.

Admittedly have picked a small family car size for 3 travelling, not a small cheap runabout, but clearly things are changing and manuals are on way out.

But in general, manual cars are becoming a small minority.
Just checked autotrader for cars
years 2024 to new, and it is 94,932 auto and 17,309 manual (85% auto)

 

[Peter Sarf]

I've never really worked farms, but may be worth mentioning that driving a tractor on private land which isn't a BOAT doesn't require a licence at all. The seasonal workers would need the relevant licence for driving on BOATs and "normal roads", and it would probably reduce the insurance costs if they had the necessary licence, but strictly speaking it's optional elsewhere

Funnily enough, a friend of mine moved to live on a farm in Scotland, in his late 50s, after having spent his whole life living in London, and spent a lot of his time driving tractors, tracked vehicles (mainly diggers) and road rollers, without the G/H entitlements.

These were large farms where main road use was required - including the A2 (the bit bypassed by the M2, not dual carriageway). I used to arrive on a motorbike and they were forever double checking I had a licence that covered more than just motorbikes !.

Oh yeah, you are right. I spoke to a few lorry drivers. They had to get used to driving automatic. Additionally, the lorry's feature driver's assist technology. Nice things to help them a long their journey. Less road accidents

I have come up against some of that assist technology.

My mother asked me what was wrong with her Toyota Yaris, she had a few near misses while trying to figure out where the beeping was coming from. With two of us in the car and me driving we worked out it was spotting when we were crossing lane markings, in all cases legitimately.

Hireing a van 2025 for my 200-300mile camping trip. It was only after packing and finally getting away from Croydon that I realised the van was gutless above about 30mph. Nearly took it back but sussed that it was set to not exceed 30mph. The next few miles were spent desperately trying to figure out how to un-set it. Of course this meant doing it while driving along on roads that were faster than 30mph !.

Same van developed uneaven tyre pressure, I could feel it pulling to one side. Learnt to ignore that when I realised it was trying to steer me back into the lane I was leaving on the motorway !. I thought I was cancelling the indicators to soon but it seems more like I was changing lanes to gently as a swerve (by my standards) into the lane I wanted was - smoother !.

BUT I would say that perhaps wen used to it these features are quite useful. It needs to be standard across all makes and models as it is enough differences to learn when transitioning from ones banger to brand new hired !.

I've only driven an Automatic once and that felt very weird, my left foot wanted to press the brake pedal. I'd want to drive a manual if given the choice as that's easier for me

Automatics. I was always avoiding them. Second Carlton was auto and I was going to convert it BUT the auto box worked quite well. Never seemed to be in the wrong gear and changes were smooth anyway. What I found was driving my mothers manual was embarrassing - I have never stalled a car so consistently. It every junction !.

What has this got to do with EVs ?. Well EVs being newer are going to have more of these fancy features and are obviously (I assume) always automatic transmission. So the important thing is not to judge EVs by these features.

 

[Mawkie]

I've only driven an Automatic once and that felt very weird, my left foot wanted to press the brake pedal. I'd want to drive a manual if given the choice as that's easier for me

How did I know that you'd say that? Lol Presumably you don't want ABS, electric windows, or a cassette player either...

What has this got to do with EVs ?. Well EVs being newer are going to have more of these fancy features

Most (if not all) of what you've mentioned is now a legal requirement on all new cars.

Automatics. I was always avoiding them. Second Carlton was auto and I was going to convert it BUT the auto box worked quite well.

If your best experience of an automatic gearbox is a 30 year old Carlton, then you will be even more surprised with modern automatics.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How did I know that you'd say that? Lol Presumably you don't want ABS, electric windows, or a cassette player either...

It does take time to get used to an auto if you've only ever driven manuals, in particular low speed manoeuvring which is generally done using the clutch rather than the accelerator on a manual. Indeed it's taking me long enough to get used to the fact that you have to dab the accelerator on my manual Kia to take the brake hold off - I keep stalling it when doing 3 point turns as a result, and I've had it over a year now! Muscle memory is quite powerful.

Once used to it I expect all but the most diehard petrolhead would prefer a modern auto or EV though. And even many petrolheads would love an EV due to the fact that even the cheapest ones have superb performance.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 09:51 ==

I've only driven an Automatic once and that felt very weird, my left foot wanted to press the brake pedal. I'd want to drive a manual if given the choice as that's easier for me

The double width brake pedal (designed presumably for those who brake with their left foot which some do on autos) is certainly one of the most difficult things when switching to an auto. First time I drove one I pulled off and then immediately did an emergency stop with my left foot when it instinctively went for the clutch. Oops.

You really do when first swappng need to put your left foot on the footrest and consciously keep it there.

 

[Peter Sarf]

How did I know that you'd say that? Lol Presumably you don't want ABS, electric windows, or a cassette player either...

Ah but first experiences of manual drivers in an automatic usually involve the left foot finding the brake pedal - you do not realise how hard you stab the clutch pedal untill you let the same foot find the brake pedal. Windscreen vs nose !.

Most (if not all) of what you've mentioned is now a legal requirement on all new cars.

Of course. But as most EVS are new cars people drift into thinking that is a peculiarity of EVs.

If your best experience of an automatic gearbox is a 30 year old Carlton, then you will be even more surprised with modern automatics.

I think engine size helps. Not relevant with an EV.
Though I wish the "auto box/whatever" on an EV bus could limit the goddam acceleration when I have not got to a seat having just got on.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Though I wish the "auto box/whatever" on an EV bus could limit the goddam acceleration when I have not got to a seat having just got on.

That's just poor driving and it was ever so. One could call it the binary throttle and brake. If the bus was manual (not that any are now, far easier to build a bus without needing a physical linkage from the front all the way to the back) the same driver would probably be jerking through the gears.

 

[Peter Sarf]

That's just poor driving and it was ever so. One could call it the binary throttle and brake. If the bus was manual (not that any are now, far easier to build a bus without needing a physical linkage from the front all the way to the back) the same driver would probably be jerking through the gears.

I agree it is driving style. It is just a whole lot more acceleration in an electric bus and with no clue like engine note or shake as the thing does into gear. Lethal - literally.

 

[GLC]

I recall being told rental firms have only a few autos just for people who cannot handle a manual. So yes, the later you book then the more chance you will be forced to accept a manual.

A few years ago I had to hire an auto for my partner. and she was so used to driving EVs she didn't want a manual anymore. I had requested an auto medium-sized hatch, and what was presented to me was a VW T-Roc R (the 300hp SUV). So I can well believe that for smaller cars where manuals are more common, the auto selection is thinner and much more varied.
The Mrs did not appreciate the T-Roc at all, and considered it much slower than her day to day EV (more the fault of the gearbox of the VW constantly shuffling itself into 7th for emissions and leaving itself with no torque)

 

[AM9]

It does take time to get used to an auto if you've only ever driven manuals, in particular low speed manoeuvring which is generally done using the clutch rather than the accelerator on a manual. Indeed it's taking me long enough to get used to the fact that you have to dab the accelerator on my manual Kia to take the brake hold off - I keep stalling it when doing 3 point turns as a result, and I've had it over a year now! Muscle memory is quite powerful.

Once used to it I expect all but the most diehard petrolhead would prefer a modern auto or EV though. And even many petrolheads would love an EV due to the fact that even the cheapest ones have superb performance.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 09:51 ==



The double width brake pedal (designed presumably for those who brake with their left foot which some do on autos) is certainly one of the most difficult things when switching to an auto. First time I drove one I pulled off and then immediately did an emergency stop with my left foot when it instinctively went for the clutch. Oops.

You really do when first swappng need to put your left foot on the footrest and consciously keep it there.

The first time that I drove an automatic was a test drive of a Triumph Dolomite in 1979. My left foot was hovering for clutch operation and when leaving the garage forecourt. The rep next to me nearly hit the dashboard when I clipped the wide brake pedal. Thereafter, I put my left foot behind my right foot and drove right foot only like that until that was instinctive.
The Dolomite had a decent gearbox, a BW65 instead of the sluggish BW35 and it never let me down. I had much more control in traffic, it was faster away at traffic lights (apart from the first 5m) and I was always in the correct gear when entering roundabouts, - the kickdown was very responsive.
Since then I've had several manual cars until my car before the present one, when I had a Mercedes A180 with a CVT gearbox. This was easy to drive any time, it even held downhill speeds with or without engaging the limiter. The nearest thing to an EV (with a slightly slower response time. I've never understood all these arguments that a manual transmission gives more control, - it might seem that you do at times, but that is at the expense of fuller attention to other road conditions.

 

[gswindale]

I've fallen foul of the left foot braking when using an automatic in this country, but don't think it have done when using a LHD automatic abroad.

My first experience of an automatic was in the States, and whilst I can't remember the exact model, I'm pretty certain it had the parking brake where you would normally find the clutch.

When abroad, if they drive on the "wrong" side of the road, I much prefer an automatic as i don't have to worry about gear changes with the wrong arm.

 

[jon0844]

All of my performance cars have been manual, and petrolheads would never have wanted an auto back in the day.

Practicing your gear shifts for maximum power, especially 0-60 or on twisty roads requiring regular braking, was all part of owning such a vehicle.

With things like DSG gearboxes, people were probably more accepting it automatic cars. You still get manual control if you want it, but now have the benefits of automatic and with faster shifting. But at a price, not just having the gearbox but the maintenance costs over time.

But with an EV, even with some car makers doing manual shifting through software, you have maximum performance all the time. There's just no need for manual anymore.

It may take some getting used to, and people might miss the 'control' they had in the past, but I don't miss manual at all. I don't think I'm going to forget how to drive one, but nor do I expect I'll ever drive one again.

 

[birchesgreen]

Its like anything with cars really, things move on. My first car had a manual choke for example.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Its like anything with cars really, things move on. My first car had a manual choke for example.

I remember those !. I suppose the manual choke went when Fuel Injection took over from Carburettors of course.

Leaded petrol. How did we cope with the transition from that !.
Actually I think leaded petrol or a substitute is still available for really old cars. That would indicate the way unleaded petrol will go in decades to come as EVs take over.

 

[Snow1964]

Its like anything with cars really, things move on. My first car had a manual choke for example.

I remember those too, but actually my first car had all sorts of manual features
wind up windows
locking that needed a key or each door locked separately
single speed wipers, where had to turn on and then off to get single wipe

Although it is bonkers where some specs have auto lights, auto wipers, automatic climate control etc, but gears that have to manually do yourselves.

 

[marshlinker]

All of my performance cars have been manual, and petrolheads would never have wanted an auto back in the day.

Practicing your gear shifts for maximum power, especially 0-60 or on twisty roads requiring regular braking, was all part of owning such a vehicle.

With things like DSG gearboxes, people were probably more accepting it automatic cars. You still get manual control if you want it, but now have the benefits of automatic and with faster shifting. But at a price, not just having the gearbox but the maintenance costs over time.

But with an EV, even with some car makers doing manual shifting through software, you have maximum performance all the time. There's just no need for manual anymore.

It may take some getting used to, and people might miss the 'control' they had in the past, but I don't miss manual at all. I don't think I'm going to forget how to drive one, but nor do I expect I'll ever drive one again.

One of the reasons that i don't drive an EV is that I really cant be bothered turning off all the driver "safety" devices all day. I know that modern ICEs have them as well but my ancient ICE vehicle doesn't.
I recently had my first experience driving an E pick up truck in to central london. The pedestrian warning noise was ridiculous you had to keep to 22 mph just to shut it off.

 

[BananaRepublic]

.......Well EVs being newer are going to have more of these fancy features and are obviously (I assume) always automatic transmission. .........

Forgive me for being pedantic, by pointing out that all but just a couple of EV's do not have automatic transmissions.
They are neither manual or automatic. The drive motor gearing is fixed.
The exceptions are on a couple of high performance models, where high speed cruising activates a shift to a 2nd gear ratio, for economy.

.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Forgive me for being pedantic, by pointing out that all but just a couple of EV's do not have automatic transmissions.
They are neither manual or automatic. The drive motor gearing is fixed.
The exceptions are on a couple of high performance models, where high speed cruising activates a shift to a 2nd gear ratio, for economy.

I think from a technical point of view they are singlespeed, but from a legal (licensing) point of view they count as automatic.

 

[AM9]

I think from a technical point of view they are singlespeed, but from a legal (licensing) point of view they count as automatic.

... and from the driver's point of view they are effectively driven the same as would be automatics.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think from a technical point of view they are singlespeed, but from a legal (licensing) point of view they count as automatic.

+

... and from the driver's point of view they are effectively driven the same as would be automatics.

Yes. Even if EVs are not strictly automatics, they are even less manual !.

 

[BananaRepublic]

I think from a technical point of view they are singlespeed, but from a legal (licensing) point of view they count as automatic.

Very true.
From the legal (licensing) perspective, it demonstrates another example how the legislature is way behind the curve and out of touch.
For goodness sake, you can still buy a Black & White TV licence in 2026, when such TV's haven't been available to buy for at least over 40 years and any old sets, if still working (doubtful ???) can't receive today's live broadcasts anyway.

 

[jon0844]

One of the reasons that i don't drive an EV is that I really cant be bothered turning off all the driver "safety" devices all day. I know that modern ICEs have them as well but my ancient ICE vehicle doesn't.
I recently had my first experience driving an E pick up truck in to central london. The pedestrian warning noise was ridiculous you had to keep to 22 mph just to shut it off.

That's a legal requirement on ALL new cars. Most car makers now make it easy to turn off safety aids with a shortcut key (on mine, I hold a button for a couple of seconds).

The only thing to be aware of is that I can see insurance companies trying to use the deactivation of active safety systems as a means of avoiding payouts in the future, if it isn't already happening.

But, in any case, it's not an EV thing.