Thameslink to replace cushions on class 700 ironing board seats to improve comfort.. Finally..

[Failed Unit]

Are the seats in the 387s also an ironing board design? They're certainly not comfortable...

I would add that I hope they aren't going to add those silly "ear" headrests head-bashers at the top of the seats.

They are the same seats, but the arm rests and the fact they are not rammed against the wall make them a lot more comfortable for the passenger. The 700s are a good train with poor seating. A gap between the seats would make as much difference as new cushions.

 

[London Trains]

2. I wonder if they'll remove the second first class section from the 12-cars? Not much point upgrading an area which is essentially standard class half the time.

Or even better, remove first class entirely!

 

[Dr Hoo]

Red always looks nice to me, although feels a bit odd on Thameslink, it is named after a river after all...

To be pedantic, it’s named after two rivers, but the River Link (in Oregon) is rather a long way from the routes served.

I’ll get my coat…

 

[Bletchleyite]

They are the same seats, but the arm rests and the fact they are not rammed against the wall make them a lot more comfortable for the passenger. The 700s are a good train with poor seating. A gap between the seats would make as much difference as new cushions.

There is a gap between the seats and between the seat and the sidewall though each is only about half an inch. The reason for this is to have a wide aisle to facilitate moving around a very busy train.

 

[Hadders]

Seat back tables is a must and shoul've been installed from new. Rumour at the time was the tables would somehow slow down station dwell times.

The seat trim is starting to look worn and the cushion padding is starting to collapse so I'm not surprised that there are plans for a refresh.

There are two issues, more with the layout rather than the seats themselves:

1. The lack of leg room in all but the prioroty seats
2. The lack of space between the seats - the window seat is right next to the side wall, and there is no gap between the window seat and aisle seat. The seats are actually the same as those fitted to the 387s but the 387s have better spacing due to the armrests, the result being more elbow room. This does impact the aisle width - there is noticable less room for standing on a 387.

Overall it is a compromise - better spacing of the seats will mean less standing space , and fewer seats if the leg room is improved. One redeeming feature of the 700s is they hoover up people at busy times - this is precicely due to the way the seats are spaced.

 

[AM9]

Overall it is a compromise - better spacing of the seats will mean less standing space , and fewer seats if the leg room is improved. One redeeming feature of the 700s is they hoover up people at busy times - this is precicely due to the way the seats are spaced.

... and despite the core capacity being at a maximum courtesy of ETCS with ATO, any reduction in the crush load capacity could not be recovered by more trains, even if they were aqvailable.

 

[John R]

AIUI the cost was already in the lease deal, but for something else that was to be due now. So the works being done have been changed, but in a way that will benefit passengers more.

So what is the work that is no longer planned? Are you able to say?

 

[williamn]

Personally I’d far rather have plug sockets than new seats. I always choose a Southern train where I can so I can have a plug socket and table (or use the declassified first on Thameslink).

 

[bramling]

... and despite the core capacity being at a maximum courtesy of ETCS with ATO, any reduction in the crush load capacity could not be recovered by more trains, even if they were aqvailable.

So don’t send as many services through the core, and this issue vanishes.

 

[Mikey C]

There is a gap between the seats and between the seat and the sidewall though each is only about half an inch. The reason for this is to have a wide aisle to facilitate moving around a very busy train.

It has been taken to ridiculous lengths though. An extra inch added to the gap from the sidewall, and 2 inches between the seats would "cost" just 6 inches from the aisle, leaving it still wide enough for loads of standees, but make the seating more human sized.

As it is, the inhabitants of the aisle seats spill out into the aisle, taking the space anyway.

 

[365515]

I would like to see some of the 12 car ones. Have better seating arrangement for long distance, EG Cambridge to Brighton.

They are nice units to travel on, just horrible to sit for a long time

 

[choochoochoo]

I’d be happy if they all just got a good deep clean.

They’re absolutely filthy.

So are the 717s

 

[williamn]

Say that’s one fewer space for someone stand in per two rows and that adds up to a lot fewer standing places per train on services which are already at capacity in many instances.

 

[bramling]

Say that’s one fewer space for someone stand in per two rows and that adds up to a lot fewer standing places per train on services which are already at capacity in many instances.

Like everything, once it’s full it’s full. Those displaced people can choose to take a subsequent service, or move to a part of the country where there is more space on trains.

 

[John R]

Like everything, once it’s full it’s full. Those displaced people can choose to take a subsequent service, or move to a part of the country where there is more space on trains.

Or more realistically, dwell times increase as people take longer to get off and on, which has an impact on reliability and capacity through the core.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Like everything, once it’s full it’s full. Those displaced people can choose to take a subsequent service, or move to a part of the country where there is more space on trains.

Or we accept that it's better to carry more people in less comfort than less people in more comfort? These aren't intercity trains, they are commuter trains, shifting lots of people is their role. They have a relatively long run but mostly do journeys to/from London (and Gatwick/Luton Airports).

If you want to go from Bedford to Brighton in relative comfort, use EMR and Southern/GatEx.

Northern do to be fair cram a lot of people into 195s while having a narrower body *and* armrests, but the 700 is the master of that - you can even fit two rows of standees in and still squeeze through, and a wheelchair user can move through the whole train.

 

[bramling]

Or we accept that it's better to carry more people in less comfort than less people in more comfort? These aren't intercity trains, they are commuter trains, shifting lots of people is their role. They have a relatively long run but mostly do journeys to/from London (and Gatwick/Luton Airports).

That’s a judgement call, and there isn’t a right or wrong answer. If we look at the GN side, the Peterborough route has five peak extras, of which only one is 12-car. The Fen Line has three with-flow peak 12-cars. Meanwhile the core has at least two empty paths compared to what was specified. There has to come a point where providing for demand is outweighed by comfort.

If you want to go from Bedford to Brighton in relative comfort, use EMR and Southern/GatEx.

That’s all well and good, but how do I go from Sandy to London in relative comfort?

At the moment, for much of GN you have the choice of hoping you can get a seat in declassified 1st (something we know at least one poster on here makes the most of, whilst simultaneously advocating how standard is fully fit for purpose), paying for real 1st, or adjusting travel to fit round those services worked by Electrostars, which on the Peterborough route are somewhat thin on the ground.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That’s all well and good, but how do I go from Sandy to London in relative comfort?

That's a commuter journey, you accept the relative discomfort for the capacity. Plenty of Bedford-London passengers will choose Thameslink for the frequency and connectivity to the City rather than waiting for the EMR and having to change at/walk from St Pancras.

 

[bramling]

That's a commuter journey, you accept the relative discomfort for the capacity. Plenty of Bedford-London passengers will choose Thameslink for the frequency and connectivity to the City rather than waiting for the EMR and having to change at/walk from St Pancras.

So *you* deem it a “commuter journey” (whatever that is, as I don’t see a standard definition anywhere). I don’t. I deem it as a “I turn up at the station and get on the train” journey.

Worth noting that Cambridge is a similar distance and journey time from London, and has a half-hourly service of Electrostar trains throughout the day. Is that a “commuter journey” as well, and if so why the difference?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So *you* deem it a “commuter journey” (whatever that is, as I don’t see a standard definition anywhere). I don’t. I deem it as a “I turn up at the station and get on the train” journey.

Train services within the Network SouthEast area are primarily commuter services, that's why Network SouthEast existed as a separate business unit because of its specific needs different from intercity and regional. The outer reaches are to be fair a bit different, e.g. west of Southampton, but as a whole services within that area are primarily about capacity.

Worth noting that Cambridge is a similar distance and journey time from London, and has a half-hourly service of Electrostar trains throughout the day. Is that a “commuter journey” as well, and if so why the difference?

Electrostars are also commuter trains, and are utterly horrible when they get crowded - no chance of getting past people to get to the loo and difficult to get past to get off. The 700 is superb for this sort of thing. They eat 500 people off a platform in seconds due to the wide doors, standbacks and wide aisles, and you can still move through the train when they're on. A true commuter success story, just with a bit of a bland interior that appears to be being fixed.

I'd take a 700 over an Electrostar on Thameslink any day. Electrostars did briefly operate on it and they were really not very good at taking the crowds. I'd definitely take one over a 720!

The "Cambridge Cruiser" fast services are borderline intercity, not being wildly less far out than Birmingham, but anything with stops between there and London is a commuter service. That some commuters (e.g. MKC and Reading) get incidental use of intercity services is really a bit moot. Indeed, the unsuitability of HSTs for Reading commuter loads has been complained about thoroughly over the years.

 

[Recessio]

BBC article on it this morning

Thameslink to replace over 60,000 'ironing board' seats - BBC News
More than 60,000 seats on Thameslink trains are set to be upgraded as part of plans announced by Greater Thameslink Railway (GTR), less than 100 days after it came under public ownership.

All 115 Thameslink trains will get new seat cushions and backrests, replacing the much-criticised seats dubbed "ironing boards" by passengers.

The work is expected to begin in 2027 and take place over a two-year period.

First-class seats would also receive upgraded seat cushions, while seat-back tables would be installed on the 70 trains that do not currently have them, GTR added.

The seat upgrades are part of wider improvements planned for the Thameslink network after GTR came into public ownership in May 2026.

Other measures included an increase in Gatwick Express services from December and a programme to refurbish train toilets and remove graffiti across the fleet.

Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander said: "We'll start getting rid of the dreaded 'ironing board seats' so passengers can enjoy comfier, more pleasant journeys on some of Britain's busiest commuter routes."

Alexander said wider rail reforms would continue under the planned Great British Railways organisation, which is intended to oversee rail services across England.

John Whitehurst, chief executive of GTR, said passenger feedback had played a key role in shaping the plans.

"Our customers told us that comfort matters, which was why we'd been working on plans to improve seating on Thameslink services," he said.

Thameslink operates services across the South East, including Sussex, Surrey and some areas of Kent.

I find the mention of "seat cushions and backrests" quite interesting - I wonder if this means they will take the opportunity to add airline tables to the seats that don't already have them?

To be honest my main gripe has been the bar that runs along the wall just above the floor - if I'm sat in the window seat, my legs are unavoidably forced inwards towards the second seat next to me, and I'm not even a big bloke...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I find the mention of "seat cushions and backrests" quite interesting - I wonder if this means they will take the opportunity to add airline tables to the seats that don't already have them?

I would assume that's what they meant by

while seat-back tables would be installed on the 70 trains that do not currently have them, GTR added

 

[Recessio]

I would assume that's what they meant by

Ha, I don't know how I missed that

 

[Smitham]

If you read the article you've posted, it's mentioned there.

 

[NCT]

That’s all well and good, but how do I go from Sandy to London in relative comfort?

How does one go from Epping to Central London in relative comfort?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find the mention of "seat cushions and backrests" quite interesting - I wonder if this means they will take the opportunity to add airline tables to the seats that don't already have them?

I think they mean the back cushion rather than just the base cushion. It appears the contoured cushion as used on 195/331 and 701s is to be installed. This is more comfortable but will slightly reduce legroom.

 

[AM9]

So don’t send as many services through the core, and this issue vanishes.

Won't help BML services, passengers both sides want through the core services and there's not enough capacity at St Pancras, - even EMR services struggle there. Far better to leave the seating on the 700s as is than waste money reducing capacity. The ranting about the seats has died down now anyway. A cushion refresh after 10 years service is perfectly in line with normal practice.

 

[8ace]

Good news overall but I'd have like to see small tables added to the bays of four. Nothing huge that would slow things down, just a small shell to rest your cup/can on.

 

[Deepgreen]

That is unlikely, as the trains aren't all oriented the same way round. It would be a long walk for people to get to the other end.

They should put a single first section in the centre, or abolish it altogether. The current arrangement is ludicrous.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They should put a single first section in the centre, or abolish it altogether. The current arrangement is ludicrous.

The wheelchair spaces and platform "Harrington humps" for level boarding are in the middle.