UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[cactustwirly]

It's all about context. If you live in rural Cumbria (for example) and own a large diesel SUV you're just sensible. If you live in central London and own one, you're selfish and inconsiderate - those vehicles cause immense harm in cities. Everywhere else and every other type of vehicle is on a continuum between the two, though it's more about how and where a vehicle is used than the simple ownership of it.

Why is it sensible in rural Cumbria? SUVs don't make any logical sense unless you're a farmer with a Discovery

If the vehicle is ULEZ compliant why is it selfish and inconsiderate?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Tuesday at 15:51 ==

Do you have a red and yellow car?

But seriously, I'm not out here to advocate banning all cars or whatever. Some people have no feasible option but to drive, and sometimes that means driving 20k miles in a year. But I think we all have a responsibility to reduce it to what is necessary and consider alternatives for shorter trips.

My brother in law lives so rural with no public transport and frankly quite dangerous roads that effectively means all his trips are by car. I sympathise with that. But then the pollution from his car dissipates before it gets to anybody's lungs anyway so it doesn't really matter that much.

I walk to Sainsbury's for smaller shops, and get the electric bus into town.

Car is for work where there is no public transport, unless you count 1x bus a day taking over an hour and arriving 1 hour early.

Also visiting family who have single bus service 4x daily, no service Sundays, no easy way of getting to the station. Probably some horrific journey with 3 buses and 1 train taking 4 hours or something stupid.

Car is also for climbing, as the climbing centre has an hourly service which finishes early.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why is it sensible in rural Cumbria? SUVs don't make any logical sense unless you're a farmer with a Discovery

I was thinking of precisely that sort of use case. It can also be sensible to have a 4x4 car if you live on roads where gritting is not routinely carried out, though admittedly that could as well be a Fiat Panda 4x4 or a Subaru, a dual motor Tesla or an Audi Quattro rather than an SUV per se.

If the vehicle is ULEZ compliant why is it selfish and inconsiderate?

Large vehicles in cities cause far more harm than just the pollution emitted. Their high bonnets are more likely to hide a child. Their mass causes them to cause more injury and damage in case of an accident. They are simply inappropriate for use in dense urban areas.

 

[cactustwirly]

I was thinking of precisely that sort of use case. It can also be sensible to have a 4x4 car if you live on roads where gritting is not routinely carried out, though admittedly that could as well be a Fiat Panda 4x4 or a Subaru, a dual motor Tesla or an Audi Quattro rather than an SUV per se.



Large vehicles in cities cause far more harm than just the pollution emitted. Their high bonnets are more likely to hide a child. Their mass causes them to cause more injury and damage in case of an accident. They are simply inappropriate for use in dense urban areas.

But surely a Vauxhall Mokka, Qashqai, Jaecoo is going to be worse than something like a Golf etc.
A BMW wouldn't be the most sensible as it is RWD so not the best on ungritted roads, surely you'd just fit winter tyres if it was that much of problem

 

[Bletchleyite]

But surely a Vauxhall Mokka, Qashqai, Jaecoo is going to be worse than something like a Golf etc.

You would certainly want four-wheel drive.

A BMW wouldn't be the most sensible as it is RWD so not the best on ungritted roads, surely you'd just fit winter tyres if it was that much of problem

RWD is the worst possible on slippery roads. 4WD is what you want, and winter tyres.

 

[gswindale]

Large vehicles in cities cause far more harm than just the pollution emitted. Their high bonnets are more likely to hide a child. Their mass causes them to cause more injury and damage in case of an accident. They are simply inappropriate for use in dense urban areas.

And that applies especially to EVs, we were in a supermarket car park the other weekend when my wife & child were nearly hit by the front passenger side of an electric SUV that started to leave their space without looking and we, as pedestrians, were unaware that it was about to move due to no engine noise.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And that applies especially to EVs, we were in a supermarket car park the other weekend when my wife & child were nearly hit by the front passenger side of an electric SUV that started to leave their space without looking and we, as pedestrians, were unaware that it was about to move due to no engine noise.

EVs are required to make a sound when moving at low speed for this exact reason. This is generally louder than a quiet modern petrol engine.

Was it an old one from before this requirement?

 

[DiscoSteve]

If you live in central London and own one, you're selfish and inconsiderate - those vehicles cause immense harm in cities. Everywhere else and every other type of vehicle is on a continuum between the two, though it's more about how and where a vehicle is used than the simple ownership of it.

once again, judging people without ANY idea of their needs (not wants)!

 

[Lucan]

I remember working with a lad once who hated being a passenger. It wasn't just me either - he disliked it with other colleagues. I'm not really sure what causes this but it's a real attitude. ... this guy just didn't like it for company trips even.

I dislike being driven by colleagues on business trips and after some bad experiences I vowed never to do it again.

One reason is that you find out first hand that a quiet mild-mannered guy actually drives his car like a maniac. In another experience we arrived at our booked hotel but my driver refused to stay there because the rooms were not en-suite, so there ensued a nightmare evening of him ranting at the staff and trying to book somewhere else. Another time, leaving a site on the other side of the country my driver announced that he was going to the theatre with his wife that night (idiot) so we had to drive non-stop home with no chance to eat. I need to eat. I did however manage to grab a Mars bar at a service area that he reluctantly paused at.

Where possible I went by train anyway. My colleagues thought I was mad because claiming expenses for a car trip was quite profitable, whereas the company travel office only issued me with the train tickets. At least I could claim for a decent meal on board - silver service in those days.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Although TfL / London boroughs seem to have got over this issue a long time ago and run bus services to the more modern shopping parks, many "out-of-town" (they aren't really in London boroughs) shopping parks have multiple bis stops and several I went to were bus termini too.

I've since moved out of London and don't understand why County Councils and District Councils haven't realised this and designed bus infrastructure into retail parks. My current local council is rebuilding the town centre bus station, whilst granting permission for M&S to build on a new site with no dedicated bus stop.

In the part of London I know I fear the buses are more arranged round the classic town centres. Mind you I think it is disingenuous creating new centres. The reasons are the railways are unlikely to re-route and re-loacate stations and if all that was done then housing would spring up around them. So really just decades spent gradually moving and re-creating what we had already. Perhaps what is needed is for town centres t be comprehensively re-developed and for the car parks to be free - like the out of town car parks !.

I believe this to be part of the motivation behind the Superloop services.

This goes well back. The public transport system has been designed to get people into central, rather than for those running errands around their local areas.

There's a whole chapter on it in the book Invisible Women (women still being the majority of caregivers, and often needing to run errands to family members, pharmacies, nurseries, etc).

Retrospectively changing this system in cities as built-up as London is very difficult.

The Superloop services I have used do not really visit any out of town hubs, Except the SL7 to Heathrow of course.

In terms of errands in local areas the sphere of errand running was a lot smaller when there were corner shops everywhere. Some thing that the aspiration for ten minute cities would recognise.

I agree retrospectively changing things in London is difficult.

Presumably this is a result of London not deregulating buses in the 80s? Other councils can build infrastructure, but can't force the bus companies to run services there unless they're willing to subsidise them. Whereas TfL specify the services.

That is interesting and worth remembering.

 

[trebor79]

Petrol is a different fraction of oil to heating oil, so will be more insulated to increase in demand for heating.

It all depends if the Iran conflict de-escalates, then the prices will drop.

I did a price comparison yesterday, looking at the capacity of a Tesla model 3 and the average public charger price, divided by the mileage to get the pence per mile.

I got 0.15p per mile, average rate within 2 miles of my house is £0.74kwh, according to ZapMap
My petrol is 0.18p per mile, noting it is a 3.0L so never going to be the most efficient.
Seems borderline at the moment, unless you're charging at home on cheap night tariffs

Plus no servicing and virtually no maintenance.

 

[Noddy]

Plus no servicing and virtually no maintenance.

Plus if you are public charging regularly you’d buy a subscription which would significantly reduce the cost.

 

[trebor79]

Plus if you are public charging regularly you’d buy a subscription which would significantly reduce the cost.

And you wouldn't ever charge a Tesla at a non Tesla DC charger unless you're really desperate. £0.79/kWh is not the right price for comparison, they range from £0.20-£0.45 depending upon location and time of day.

 

[Snow1964]

Used EVs selling fast

Used electric cars are racing out of showrooms faster than any other fuel type, according to leading marketplace Autotrader.

Electrified models account for all 10 of the fastest-selling used cars on the site in July. Pure battery electric models (BEVs) made up eight of the top 10, with the other two spots filled by hybrid models from MG and Toyota.

Described as a “significant milestone for the used car market”, July marks the first time that no petrol or diesel models have featured in the top 10 since Autotrader started tracking data.

The figures mark a major jump for used EVs, which in July 2025 accounted for just four of the top 10 fastest-selling models.

Used EVs flying off forecourts faster than any other models

'Sweet spot’ secondhand electric cars are selling 10 days faster than the market average, according to new data

evpowered.co.uk

 

[Mawkie]

And you wouldn't ever charge a Tesla at a non Tesla DC charger unless you're really desperate. £0.79/kWh is not the right price for comparison, they range from £0.20-£0.45 depending upon location and time of day.

To be fair, those weird 'On The Move' Tesla chargers are very expensive and catch a few out.

It's worth reminding people that the majority of Tesla chargers are 'Open To All' and can be used by any make of car (at a slightly increased price over an actual Tesla) or for the same cheap prices with a £9.99 a month subscription. So your point does stand.

 

[Snow1964]

I think that EV chargers should be obliged to display a large sign at the entrance with a price per kWh display like a price per litre at petrol stations.

Some now do, drive into Gloucester services on M5 and there is big sign showing EV charging pence per Kw near end of slip road as enter the site.

I don't think there is one showing petrol/diesel prices, but then no one goes to a motorway fuel station to buy competitively priced fuel.

Talking of M5, I might be wrong, but I think M5 services at Exeter has most rapid and ultra rapid chargers, 100 of them including 24 400kW chargers (which is much higher than most EVs can use, most cars are limited to 70-120kw max charging speed)

 

[Noddy]

Some now do, drive into Gloucester services on M5 and there is big sign showing EV charging pence per Kw near end of slip road as enter the site.

I don't think there is one showing petrol/diesel prices, but then no one goes to a motorway fuel station to buy competitively priced fuel.

Talking of M5, I might be wrong, but I think M5 services at Exeter has most rapid and ultra rapid chargers, 100 of them including 24 400kW chargers (which is much higher than most EVs can use, most cars are limited to 70-120kw max charging speed)

You’ll also note that the Gloucester Services chargers are 69p kWh (despite being at a Motorway Services), 6.7% cheaper than the OPs quoted 74p.

 

[Harpers Tate]

....the pollution from his car dissipates before it gets to anybody's lungs anyway....

"Dissipates" Yes, but not Disappear. It's an important distinction. I'm in no way contesting his perceived or actual "need" for a long-range car easily fuelled. I'm in no position to judge. But it should be part of everyone's judgement that all fossil emissions are having an increasingly marked and noticeable effect on the climate both locally and globally. It's a worrying trend that at least anyone with a continuing family line should be thinking about. And it's flawed to justify any (arguably) unnecessary continuance of individual activity on the basis that any one contribution has no marked effect. Whilst nominally valid, the old phrase "if everyone did that..." is material. Every small contribution is incremental; collectively the effect becomes marked.

 

[styles]

"Dissipates" Yes, but not Disappear. It's an important distinction. I'm in no way contesting his perceived or actual "need" for a long-range car easily fuelled. I'm in no position to judge. But it should be part of everyone's judgement that all fossil emissions are having an increasingly marked and noticeable effect on the climate both locally and globally. It's a worrying trend that at least anyone with a continuing family line should be thinking about. And it's flawed to justify any (arguably) unnecessary continuance of individual activity on the basis that any one contribution has no marked effect. Whilst nominally valid, the old phrase "if everyone did that..." is material. Every small contribution is incremental; collectively the effect becomes marked.

But it's an EV. It's basically the cleanest mode of transport at his disposal, owing to the lack (absence) of public transport and the infeasability of walking or cycling.

 

[Harpers Tate]

But it's an EV.

In that case with apologies, I misunderstood. However the point is still valid as regards others who are in a similar situation but have made a different choice.

 

[Violette]

Current timeframes are that new conventional petrol and diesel vehicles can be sold upto 2030, arrangements for after 2030 haven't yet been decided by government, but its expected that new vehicles will need some electric range, so would need to be plug-in hybrids as a minimum, only after 2035 will sale of new PHEVs be phased out, becoming EV only. There's no plans to prevent people continuing to run their existing petrol and diesel cars.

If you've got a petrol or diesel car you can run it until it wears out, and its likely you can buy another one in the form of a PHEV until 2035 and run it for another say 15+ years until it wears out, which takes you upto 2050 or more.

In practice, I doubt many will want to be running a petrol car in 2050 or even 2040, just like hardly anyone uses film cameras, or buys CRT televisions, or heats their home with paraffin heaters. The world moves on.

I had no idea they were planning on using petrol until 2035. It is a resource hard to find, as in limited edition. I heard crude oil is non- renewable. Just extracting and refining the crude oil is an expensive, time consuming process. Apparently, 55% of all car users run on petrol. I'm relieved to see that alternatives are available; such as hydrogen and electricity.

 

[Mawkie]

I had no idea they were planning on using petrol until 2035. It is a resource hard to find, as in limited edition. I heard crude oil is non- renewable. Just extracting and refining the crude oil is an expensive, time consuming process. Apparently, 55% of all car users run on petrol. I'm relieved to see that alternatives are available; such as hydrogen and electricity.

Petrol will be available long after 2035!

 

[jon0844]

Petrol will be available long after 2035!

Just probably not widely available, or affordable. Obviously how many petrol stations close (or move towards EV charging) will depend on the EV take up rate - but once the bulk of cars being driven (older cars likely being more like classics and not used daily, or for high mileages) are electric, demand will dictate how many pumps are kept going.

I think between now and 2035 more and more self-declared petrolheads are going to realise EVs aren't evil or horrible to drive because they don't make loud noises or have gears etc.

 

[py_megapixel]

once again, judging people without ANY idea of their needs (not wants)!

Could you please make a constructive argument against the opinions presented rather than attacking they way you assume the writer has come to those opinions? Your messages read as quite confrontational.

The opinion presented was that it would be selfish and inconsiderate for someone to own a large diesel SUV in central London. In what situations do you believe this not to be the case, and why?

 

[AM9]

Just probably not widely available, or affordable. Obviously how many petrol stations close (or move towards EV charging) will depend on the EV take up rate - but once the bulk of cars being driven (older cars likely being more like classics and not used daily, or for high mileages) are electric, demand will dictate how many pumps are kept going.

I think between now and 2035 more and more self-declared petrolheads are going to realise EVs aren't evil or horrible to drive because they don't make loud noises or have gears etc.

It seems that quite a few petrolheads have been quieter lately here, (RUK).

 

[jon0844]

It seems that quite a few petrolheads have been quieter lately here, (RUK).

I think most petrolheads are open to new technologies and are likely quite impressed with EVs, but there are some who are somehow brainwashed into disregarding them no matter what. Even if they were driven in one, they'd double down on how bad they are.

Given probably 99% of EV owners had an ICE car before (probably many ICE cars), it's quite clear they aren't terrible - although obviously there are good and bad models just as there always have been.

 

[styles]

I think most petrolheads are open to new technologies and are likely quite impressed with EVs, but there are some who are somehow brainwashed into disregarding them no matter what. Even if they were driven in one, they'd double down on how bad they are.

Given probably 99% of EV owners had an ICE car before (probably many ICE cars), it's quite clear they aren't terrible - although obviously there are good and bad models just as there always have been.

Some of this is just nostalgia and stubbornness. It's quite common to hear parents and grandparents say they offspring must get a manual licence. Yet the majority of used and new cars on Autotrader today are automatic, most new car sales have been automatic for years. The lorry which is currently sat outside my house is automatic. Whenever I've been abroad hiring cars they've had automatics. Sure there's a place for a manual licence but honestly in 2026 it's not that important - it'll just mean your first car is pricier really.

The same will be true of those who are adamant that petrol cars are here to stay. They're technically right because they're clearly not going to be abolished any time soon, but their importance is massively exaggerated.

 

[Snow1964]

AutoExpress Has issued an article with their rank 1 - 161 of each of the 161 EVs that are now available in UK

Might be interesting for anyone thinking of getting an EV, although clearly some in the list will be beyond the budget of some

Every electric car in the UK ranked 161 to 1! The complete guide | Auto Express

There are 161 different electric cars on sale in the UK and here’s the complete guide to every one of them…

www.autoexpress.co.uk

 

[Mawkie]

AutoExpress Has issued an article with their rank 1 - 161 of each of the 161 EVs that are now available in UK

Might be interesting for anyone thinking of getting an EV, although clearly some in the list will be beyond the budget of some

Every electric car in the UK ranked 161 to 1! The complete guide | Auto Express

There are 161 different electric cars on sale in the UK and here’s the complete guide to every one of them…

www.autoexpress.co.uk

The problem (as always) with these kinds of mega lists is they never really compare like with like. The 1st car is a Nissan Leaf with 280 miles range priced at £29k.

The next is the BMW iX3 with 500 miles range, three times the charging rate, and £53k.

Nothing is comparable. Wouldn't it have been much better to list them in segment sizes at least? I suppose it's helpful to see all cars specs in one list.

 

[rangersac]

Some of this is just nostalgia and stubbornness. It's quite common to hear parents and grandparents say they offspring must get a manual licence. Yet the majority of used and new cars on Autotrader today are automatic, most new car sales have been automatic for years. The lorry which is currently sat outside my house is automatic. Whenever I've been abroad hiring cars they've had automatics. Sure there's a place for a manual licence but honestly in 2026 it's not that important - it'll just mean your first car is pricier really.

The same will be true of those who are adamant that petrol cars are here to stay. They're technically right because they're clearly not going to be abolished any time soon, but their importance is massively exaggerated.

My son just got his license and I insisted he learn in a manual. Firstly I think it makes you a much better driver as it requires a better level of coordination, and a more fundamental understanding of how a lot of cars on the road still work. Now those are opinions, but certainly for entry level first cars manuals are still cheaper to buy and if you are renting cars both in the UK and on the continent it's still pretty common for manuals to be the default rental choice. Also jobs wise it means he can drive any vehicle and there are plenty of entry level jobs out where driving a 15 year old manual commercial/ delivery vehicle is a requirement.

Every electric car in the UK ranked 161 to 1! The complete guide | Auto Express

There are 161 different electric cars on sale in the UK and here’s the complete guide to every one of them…

www.autoexpress.co.uk

That article has some wildly optimistic ranges quoted for many vehicles.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it's still worth learning in a manual, it gives you the ultimate flexibility (e.g. if later in life you fancy a classic). Though there is talk of abolishing the distinction.

Though I do agree that within the next decade or two most cars left on the road that aren't cherished classics or work vans (hardly any vans are auto) will likely be auto or EV.