Converting Class 707s to 700s

[Elshad]

Would it be feasible to remanufacture the Class 707s (once / if no longer needed by Southeastern) into some extra 700s for Thameslink?

30 5-car 707s means 60 driving motor cars and 90 intermediate trailers.

From this you could make 15 8-car 700/0s (using 30 driving motor cars and 90 trailers) although 30 of these trailers (currently all unpowered) would need to have powered bogies added to match the existing 700/0 MSOs.

This would leave 30 driving motor cars discarded.

Patographs and toilets and a lot more work I'm sure would be needed too.

Thoughts?

 

[norbitonflyer]

30 5-car 707s means 60 driving motor cars and 90 intermediate trailers.

From this you could make 15 8-car 700/0s (using 15 driving motor cars and 60 trailers) although 20 of these trailers (currently all unpowered) would need to have powered bogies added to match the existing 700/0 MSOs.

Something wrong with that arithmetic. Fifteen 8-car units needs 120 vehicles, of which thirty are driving cars. You would need all ninety trailers, of which thirty (not twenty) would need converting to non-driving motor vehicles (or alternatibely converting the other thirty driving motors to intermediate veihcles_)

 

[Elshad]

Something wrong with that arithmetic. Fifteen 8-car units needs 120 vehicles, of which thirty are driving cars. You would need all ninety trailers, of which thirty (not twenty) would need converting to non-driving motor vehicles (or alternatibely converting the other thirty driving motors to intermediate veihcles_)

Yes you are absolutely correct! My bad, edited my original post.

 

[London Trains]

Could pair up the 30 remaining driving cars to create some 2-coach units for Redhill to Tonbridge, Dorking to Horsham and Barnham to Bognor Regis shuttles

 

[JonathanH]

Would it be feasible to remanufacture the Class 707s (once / if no longer needed by Southeastern) into some extra 700s for Thameslink?

What do you believe Thameslink needs extra 700/0s for?

It doesn't seem likely that Southeastern will be releasing the 707s in any case, as all the recent changes seem to be driven by reducing the size of the Networker fleet to make the replacement order as small as possible.

My recollection of previous discussions is that a pair of 707s does not have as much installed power as a 700 (as you have noted).

 

[A S Leib]

How likely is it that 700s would outlast 707s for long enough for that to be worthwhile, if the 707s go first at all?

 

[Mikey C]

If we're talking wild ideaw, how about taking a trailer out of the 707s to reduce them to 4 cars, and adding those 30 trailers to a few of the 8 car 700/0s to create a sub fleet of 10 car 700s or a few more 12 car 700/1s?

The 4 car 707s would work better on what are predominantly 8 and 12 car lines on Southeastern.

 

[Russel]

Why not just run them doubled up at 10 car sets, that way we're not discarding driving cars?

 

[JonathanH]

Why not just run them doubled up at 10 car sets, that way we're not discarding driving cars?

Possibly because the universal toilet and level boarding area can't then be in the middle of the train.

 

[bramling]

Would it be feasible to remanufacture the Class 707s (once / if no longer needed by Southeastern) into some extra 700s for Thameslink?

30 5-car 707s means 60 driving motor cars and 90 intermediate trailers.

From this you could make 15 8-car 700/0s (using 30 driving motor cars and 90 trailers) although 30 of these trailers (currently all unpowered) would need to have powered bogies added to match the existing 700/0 MSOs.

This would leave 30 driving motor cars discarded.

Patographs and toilets and a lot more work I'm sure would be needed too.

Thoughts?

First issue is where would they be stabled? There’s also the question of where would they be deployed?

If anything at present there’s a surplus of 700/0 units, as there is now no passenger-facing need to have the 8x GN-only 700/0 diagrams, and from a quality and suitability perspective it would be preferable to find a way of transferring these services to Electrostars.

If the objective is to create some 10-car diagrams and offload a load of 700/0 onto Southern inner-suburban then the problem would be finding space to stable on the TL network. It’s already messy with 8 cars having to work up to Bedford and 12 cars down to Cricklewood to stable.

It might be easier just to redeploy the 707s to Southern as they are, transfer the GN 700/0 diagrams also to Southern so together acting as a de-facto 455 replacement, and have all GN-branded services as Electrostar.

 

[Transilien]

It might be easier just to redeploy the 707s to Southern as they are, transfer the GN 700/0 diagrams also to Southern so together acting as a de-facto 455 replacement, and have all GN-branded services as Electrostar.

Apart from the 717s on the inners of course (I’m being pedantic).

 

[JonathanH]

It might be easier just to redeploy the 707s to Southern as they are, transfer the GN 700/0 diagrams also to Southern so together acting as a de-facto 455 replacement, and have all GN-branded services as Electrostar.

If that is going to happen then it might as well be the 376s, not 707s, that go to Southern, together with return of some 377s.

The 707s remain, in my view, the perfect fleet for taking over the Charing Cross to Tunbridge Wells services (and other similar length outer suburban services) from Networkers if they are spare, and something with a 345-like interior doing the Southeastern Metro services, without the need to be specified for longer workings. (I appreciate previous comments have been that 707s aren't currently cleared to Tunbridge Wells.)

(We could even convert 700s to 707s)

 

[Russel]

Possibly because the universal toilet and level boarding area can't then be in the middle of the train.

Fair enough, could moving the carriges around within the set and setting up dedicated stopping points for 707s be a work around to that?