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1970-1974 WCML Weaver Jct -Glasgow electrification

Cheshire Scot

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Back to the subject of WCML electrification, some shots from day one of the May 1974 timetable at Glasgow Central.
1. an afternoon down arrival
2. parallel departures of the 16.10 Euston and 16.10 Leeds
3. departure of 17.30 to Euston

Two things which I found fascinating once the electric service was introduced:
  • Once clear of Carlisle the first place where line speed dropped below 90 was Law Junction
  • In good conditions the ten miles from Beattock to Beattock summit were regularly covered in 6 mins 40 seconds, an average of 90 mph on a section with a 90mph limit throughout, booked timing was 7.5 mins, an average of 80.
 

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GRALISTAIR

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Those shots also clearly show when the 87s were introduced they had the "old style" diamond pantographs. Later (much), to help with enhanced speeds, they were of course upgraded to Brecknell-Willis high speed pants iirc.
 

hexagon789

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Back to the subject of WCML electrification, some shots from day one of the May 1974 timetable at Glasgow Central.
1. an afternoon down arrival
2. parallel departures of the 16.10 Euston and 16.10 Leeds
3. departure of 17.30 to Euston

Two things which I found fascinating once the electric service was introduced:
  • Once clear of Carlisle the first place where line speed dropped below 90 was Law Junction
  • In good conditions the ten miles from Beattock to Beattock summit were regularly covered in 6 mins 40 seconds, an average of 90 mph on a section with a 90mph limit throughout, booked timing was 7.5 mins, an average of 80.
It was a real step-change all-round by all accounts, a modern railway.

It's a fascinating period to compare the immediately before and immediately after with.
 

Cheshire Scot

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It's a fascinating period to compare the immediately before and immediately after with.
Yes, I recall being in Edinburgh Waverley one early evening pre electrification and a class 26 arrived hauling two coaches, a BFK and a TSO, what on earth is that I wondered. It proved to be the Edinburgh portion of the second and final Liverpool and Manchester to Glasgow and Edinburgh train of the day, with Edinburgh only getting a portion from Manchester.

It was a real step-change all-round by all accounts, a modern railway.
Prior to that Edinburgh was very much a secondary destination off the West Coast, May 1974 brought four daytime Brimingham trains (portions), a big step up from the previous one all year plus one summer only and an increase in services to Liverpool and Manchester too.
 

hexagon789

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Prior to that Edinburgh was very much a secondary destination off the West Coast, May 1974 brought four daytime Brimingham trains (portions), a big step up from the previous one all year plus one summer only and an increase in services to Liverpool and Manchester too.
Which seemed to be the long-standing arrangement, provision from Birmingham was much the same.

The increase in frequency and reduction by 50-60 mins in journey time is the sort of improvement that you only see once in a generation really.
 

GRALISTAIR

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First of all I apologize for the poor quality of the image. It is from a scanned slide and I was young and not a good photographer and I think (I know!) I was using an extremely cheap camera. However, this shot taken during the electrification shows a number of things I find interesting. It is again in the Barton and Broughton loop area looking north

  1. You can clearly see the new brickwork on the bridge as it had recently been raised.
  2. Hardly any vegetation - a photo taken today would show a jungle!
  3. If you look carefully in the distance you can see a coloured light signal in the middle of where the down-slow once was. That had been lifted prior to the approval for electrification.
  4. If your eyes are razor sharp you will notice that the semaphore signal is still in existence but the signal for the down slow has been removed.
  5. The old style telegraph poles have been removed south of the bridge but are still present north of the bridge.
  6. OS Nock's book concentrates more in the Preston station area and of course at Catterall and Bilsborough with the A6 bridge adjustments. So I am pleased I have got this record.

  7. View attachment bridge raised no telegraph poles 2.JPG
 
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Solweytracker

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I am surprised there's been no mention of the Modern Railways No. 308 May 1974 series of articles in the thread. 20 well-written pages including photos covering:West coast electrification - 1 Background to the new train service (Brian Perren), 2 The new timetable in close-up (Brian Perren), 3 Resignalling complete (GM Kitchenside), (includes signalling diagrams for Carlisle, Motherwell and Glasgow Central power boxes), 4 Developments in overhead equipment (BK Cooper).

Well worth a re-read or first-time perusal.
 

Taunton

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Back to the subject of WCML electrification, some shots from day one of the May 1974 timetable at Glasgow Central.
1. an afternoon down arrival
2. parallel departures of the 16.10 Euston and 16.10 Leeds
3. departure of 17.30 to Euston
Any shots of the arrival of the first Euston train at 1245, taken from the gateline - I'm wondering if I might be in view!
 

McRhu

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Any shots of the arrival of the first Euston train at 1245, taken from the gateline - I'm wondering if I might be in view!
I was there, but out at the end of Platform whatever. Unfortunately almost all of my photos have long since disappeared and the one I already posted is the only survivor.
 

hexagon789

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Any shots of the arrival of the first Euston train at 1245, taken from the gateline - I'm wondering if I might be in view!
There's this, but taken towards the buffers not from:

London Glasgow in 5 hours - the first train​


Following electrification from Weaver Junction to Glasgow the first through train hauled all the way by an electric loco was on 6 May 1974, the 10.40 fromEuston, aka The Royal Scot. Preston was the only stop.
Now at Glasgow Central - just 2-3 minutes late arriving.​

 

Cheshire Scot

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There's this, but taken towards the buffers not from:

A very minor point but to correct the caption the Royal Scot was 10.45 from Euston (not 10.40), all of the Glasgow trains were xx.45 from Euston - 10.40 was Euston to Wolverhampton. I'd guess many years would have passed between the event and uploading to Flickr so such memory lapses are forgivable! I'd say the clocks are showing 15.44 or even 15.43 and 35 ecs, so actually an early arrival on that occasion.
It was of course not the first with electric haulage throughout, that would be the 07.45 from Euston which @Taunton travelled on but it was the first scheduled to do the journey in five hours.

The first time I travelled on the Electric up Royal Scot in June '74, 10.10 from Glasgow it arrived in Euston at 15.01, 9 minutes early 4 hrs 51 minutes - in that era there was 'weave time' in the schedule south of Rugby.
It was strange to pass through Carlisle without stopping - the evening Glasgow (17.45) / Edinburgh to Birmingham also passed through Carlisle without stopping, non stop Carstairs to Preston, a bit of a strange one that.
 

nlogax

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Image from the Glasgow Herald at the time. Location is the Clyde just upriver from Central Station. Google "Electric locomotive on Clyde".

View attachment 210013

Moderator note - image shows a large model of a Class 87 floating on the Clyde

This entire thread has been an education to me but this was particularly enjoyable post. At first glance I thought the Caledonian Bridge had developed a major fault, but I understand this mock-up was floated along the Clyde in 1974 to advertise the newly electrified service.

On a related aside do any photographs exist of 50s passing through Barrhead on diverted WCML services ahead of electrification being completed?
 

Cheshire Scot

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I was there, but out at the end of Platform whatever. Unfortunately almost all of my photos have long since disappeared and the one I already posted is the only survivor.
I'd guess that like me you would have been on study leave that day. My recollection is back than study leave was only granted for the day before each exam so we quite possibly both sat the same exam next day, can't remember which it was but I did pass them all that year so the trip into Glasgow was not too much of a distraction!

On a related aside do any photographs exist of 50s passing through Barrhead on diverted WCML services ahead of electrification being completed?
Ubable to help on that one but there remained one daily Euston via GSW and return (as well as sleepers) post electrification which might well have also produced class 50s through Barrhead.
I think I have a photo of a 50 at Kilmarnock but it might take a bit of finding!
 

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A very minor point but to correct the caption the Royal Scot was 10.45 from Euston (not 10.40), all of the Glasgow trains were xx.45 from Euston - 10.40 was Euston to Wolverhampton.
Agreed.
Some of the timings attached.

From 1974 departures from Euston were roughly
xx.40 Wolverhampton
xx.45 Glasgow (not every hour)
xx.50 Liverpool
xx.55 Manchester
xx.00 Carlisle/Blackpool/Holyhead with stops eg at Rugby
xx.10 SX Birmingham
then a big gap until the next xx.40 departure

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

It was strange to pass through Carlisle without stopping - the evening Glasgow (17.45) / Edinburgh to Birmingham also passed through Carlisle without stopping, non stop Carstairs to Preston, a bit of a strange one that.
1M47, see https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...g-services-in-the-br-era.247316/#post-6182051
The only time I’ve been non-stop through Carlisle; I’ve otherwise been non-stop through Preston on a Blackpool North-Manchester Victoria service and many times non-stop through Crewe so in aggregate I’ve been on trains that didn’t stop at all stations London-Glasgow.
 

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hexagon789

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A very minor point but to correct the caption the Royal Scot was 10.45 from Euston (not 10.40), all of the Glasgow trains were xx.45 from Euston - 10.40 was Euston to Wolverhampton. I'd guess many years would have passed between the event and uploading to Flickr so such memory lapses are forgivable! I'd say the clocks are showing 15.44 or even 15.43 and 35 ecs, so actually an early arrival on that occasion.
It was of course not the first with electric haulage throughout, that would be the 07.45 from Euston which @Taunton travelled on but it was the first scheduled to do the journey in five hours.

The first time I travelled on the Electric up Royal Scot in June '74, 10.10 from Glasgow it arrived in Euston at 15.01, 9 minutes early 4 hrs 51 minutes - in that era there was 'weave time' in the schedule south of Rugby.
It was strange to pass through Carlisle without stopping - the evening Glasgow (17.45) / Edinburgh to Birmingham also passed through Carlisle without stopping, non stop Carstairs to Preston, a bit of a strange one that.
Even though I have the 1974 timetable and an issue of Modern Railways which goes into great detail on the new service pattern and timings, I failed to notice the error with the caption on the photo!

Yes, I often thought the initial arrangement of the Up 'Midland Scot' running fast Carstairs to Preston was rather odd, I think a Carlisle call appeared the very next year.
 

jfollows

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Yes, I often thought the initial arrangement of the Up 'Midland Scot' running fast Carstairs to Preston was rather odd, I think a Carlisle call appeared the very next year.
No, it was still the same in 1978-79 and 1979-80 if not later.
I can't remember exactly when I travelled on it, but it wasn't 1974-5 when I was 12-13, it was a few years later.

1M47 called at Carlisle in the 1980-81 timetable, 19:19.5-19:22.5, then Preston 20:30.5-20r34.5, Warrington (but not Wigan) 20:55.5-20r57.5, Crewe 21:19 (10 minutes slower to Crewe than in 1974, when it didn’t call at Warrington either).
r - advertised 3/3.5 minutes earlier

Until then, Glasgow-Carstairs-Preston-Crewe was a good way to get home, which was then Crewe-Stockport-Prestbury/Macclesfield I guess.
 
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hexagon789

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No, it was still the same in 1978-79 and 1979-80 if not later.
I can't remember exactly when I travelled on it, but it wasn't 1974-5 when I was 12-13, it was a few years later.
Seems to have lost the name, but you are quite correct - a Carlisle call doesn't appear until 1980!

Does make one wonder the reason behind the omission though, given it lasted considerably longer than I recalled.
 

Taunton

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A very minor point but to correct the caption the Royal Scot was 10.45 from Euston (not 10.40), all of the Glasgow trains were xx.45 from Euston - 10.40 was Euston to Wolverhampton. I'd guess many years would have passed between the event and uploading to Flickr so such memory lapses are forgivable! I'd say the clocks are showing 15.44 or even 15.43 and 35 ecs, so actually an early arrival on that occasion.
It was of course not the first with electric haulage throughout, that would be the 07.45 from Euston which @Taunton travelled on but it was the first scheduled to do the journey in five hours.
A further minor correction it was indeed lunchtime when I watched the first Euston service pull in (not travelled in). I do believe it was a 5 hour service, 0745/1245.

It did seem surprising that services had apparently all been diesel hauled right up to the previous day.
 

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A further minor correction it was indeed lunchtime when I watched the first Euston service pull in (not travelled in). I do believe it was a 5 hour service, 0745/1245.

It did seem surprising that services had apparently all been diesel hauled right up to the previous day.
The 07.45 was due to arrive at 12.55 having called at Watford Jn and Carlisle in addition to the Preston call in the five hour schedule. Also the five hour timing was on E420 timings whils the others wer E455 (even though they typically were not 13 coaches).
 

McRhu

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I'd guess that like me you would have been on study leave that day. My recollection is back than study leave was only granted for the day before each exam so we quite possibly both sat the same exam next day, can't remember which it was but I did pass them all that year so the trip into Glasgow was not too much of a distraction!
My recollection of the Highers exams is very hazy. I sat them, passed most of them, but can't actually remember anything about them! The excitement of electric operation on the full WCML eclipsed any scholastic considerations I may have harboured. Study leave does ring faint bells though. My main recollection of the last month at the dear old Hermitage :) is that everybody just drifted away one by one after sitting the exams; no ceremony, no ritual, no goodbyes... I walked out the gates on a whim on the 16th June 1974 and took up a (brief!) railway career soon after. Should have picked up the dart board from the sixth-year room on my way out but there we go.
 

Cheshire Scot

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My recollection of the Highers exams is very hazy. I sat them, passed most of them, but can't actually remember anything about them! The excitement of electric operation on the full WCML eclipsed any scholastic considerations I may have harboured. Study leave does ring faint bells though. My main recollection of the last month at the dear old Hermitage :) is that everybody just drifted away one by one after sitting the exams; no ceremony, no ritual, no goodbyes... I walked out the gates on a whim on the 16th June 1974 and took up a (brief!) railway career soon after. Should have picked up the dart board from the sixth-year room on my way out but there we go.
Likewise no recolection of the actual exams and as far as I recall the day of my last exam was my last day in school, as you say we all drifted away one by one.
Then the nervous wait for the results coming in the post - none of this all go to the school for the results as seems to be the way these days.

Sad to know your railway career was so brief, my results were what I required for University entrance which was followed by a railway career which I finally called time on after 42 years - and the very next week Boris put us all in lockdown, not the introduction to retirement I had anticipated!

Those that follwed us were probably grateful the dart board was still in situ for their use, I am not sure I ever threw any darts again after that! Can't help thinking a dart board (and darts) in a school would be a non starter today!
Happy memories of watching those West Highland trains I would later become so familiar with from those classrooms on the western side of the school.
 
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McRhu

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Likewise no recolection of the actual exams and as far as I recall the day of my last exam was my last day in school, as you say we all drifted away one by one.
Then the nervous wait for the results coming in the post - none of this all go to the school for the results as seems to be the way these days.

Sad to know your railway career was so brief, my results were what I required for University entrance which was followed by a railway career which I finally called time on after 42 years - and the very next week Boris put us all in lockdown, not the introduction to retirement I had anticipated!

Those that follwed us were probably grateful the dart board was still in situ for their use, I am not sure I ever threw any darts again after that! Can't help thinking a dart board (and darts) in a school would be a non starter today!
Happy memories of watching those West Highland trains I would later become so familiar with from those classrooms on the western side of the school.
The one thing that school was good for - its proximity to the West Highland Line. :)
 

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Having left that wonderful school in June 1973 and moved down South in September of that year, I missed all the fun of the launch of the full WCML electrified service. However, in December 1974 lI was able to lead a small party of members of my new school in Hampshire's railway society on a 24 hour bash using the special promotional £5 return tickets from Euston to Glasgow. Outward travel was by the first train from Petersfield at 05 57 and then the 07 45 Euston-Glasgow - hauled by 87 021 - arriving at 12 54.

We then had a 'Blue Train' (class 303) ride out to Helensburgh Central for fish & chips and an ice cream (remember Dino's Radio Café? Still going strong and now twice the size). After meeting up with a few Hermitage school friends, we caught the Up West Highland sleeper from Helensburgh Upper - hauled by 27 032, my Hampshire friends' first class 27 haulage - back into Queen Street for the overnight from Central to Euston via the HSE, hauled by a class 50 to Carlisle and then an 86 to Euston.
 

70014IronDuke

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The West Coast Main Line between Lockerbie and the border is almost entirely a series of wide sweeping curves, with only a few short straight sections.
OK, my very vague memory was out - but were those curves any impediment to 90 mph running, if the will and money had been there for higher line speeds in 1964? (Whether the Class 40s employed at the time could attain that would be another matter.)

The Scottish Region persisted with a 75 mph speed restriction - for the entire region, including the East and West Coast Main Lines - until 1970 probably because there were not many trains that could (officially) exceed that speed
Well, Deltics had been passed for 100 mph on the ECML since 1962, and there were certainly a fair few of those going over the border each day even then.

and also for track maintenance economy reasons....given that most lines were still laid with jointed track prior to 1970.
That, one assumes, is the primary reason. But I still find it surprising the BRB didn't push the ScR on this more in the 60s. I can imagine Mr Fiennes was not impressed with the ScR's policy slowing his ER expresses. (Yes, I know the ECML north of Newcastle is not the racing ground it is further south.)
 

hexagon789

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Well, Deltics had been passed for 100 mph on the ECML since 1962, and there were certainly a fair few of those going over the border each day even then.
1964 was when the first 100mph section was introduced - a 17 mile section between Grantham and Stoke Tunnel, but between then and the upgrading of Peterborough (to permit 100, later 105mph through the station on the fast lines), 80% of the ECML to Newcastle would be steadily upgraded and passed for 100mph.
 

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Just spotted this thread, and I've been reading the posts with interest. I have nothing particular to add in a technical sense, but it does evoke some memories that I'll share. It's quite funny reflecting on them now, as an enthusiast.

My aunt and uncle were the stewards at Glengonnar school camp in Abington, where kids from Glasgow, who wouldn't otherwise get a holiday, would be sent for a holiday in the Clyde Valley.

I was only a little 'un back then {10 or so}, but I remember my older cousin, on one visit to see my aunt and uncle, taking me up the hill to Abington station where we would watch the trains.......and this was long before I had any interest in railways.

He liked the fast passenger trains, while I liked the noisier clanking freight trains. I can remember what must have been pairs of Cl 50s that he was most excited about, but I don't really remember much about the freights except the noise.

Then I remember one visit, and there was suddenly lots of work going on, and my uncle explained the line was being electrified and that the diesels would be replaced by faster electric trains soon. I remember being really upset to hear this, as I thought my favourite trains would disappear!

I remember the work going on for quite a few family visits to uncle Bill and Auntie Irene's with masts and wires appearing, and lots of diggers and earthworks, which I guess must have been the loop being constructed or lengthened? (I was young enough to be entertained by the earth moving vehicles in between trains!). But the trains were still all diesels, so it was still just as good as always.....and sometimes there was an engineering train there as well.....and I recall there being a loco at both ends of those (on reflection, probably 20s?)

Then, one visit, which I now know must have been in 1974, I saw my first electric train pass Abington. I have no idea what class or on what service it was, but I do recall very vividly that I wasn't disappointed with the new electric trains at all! And my freight trains were still exactly the same! So for the 10 year old kid that was just beginning to like trains, WCML electrification was a win-win!

Then, over the Christmas holidays that year, Abington was often the venue for big family gatherings, so we were all there one day between Christmas and New year. It's pitch dark by 4pm there at that time of year, and my cousin said he had something to show me outside. He walked me down about 500m past all the empty dorm huts down to the banks of the Clyde where there was an uninterrupted view of the line on the opposite side down towards Crawford and Elvanfoot and with not much light pollution (the A74, as was, much much quieter then!).......and that was where I gasped in amazement when I saw my first arcing pantograph.....and how much of the countryside it illuminated. I was enormously excited about this at that age, and my Uncle Jimmy explained this phenomenon to me in great detail later on with the aid of a napkin drawing at our Christmas dinner table!

I thought of that moment about 6 years later in the front coach of an overnight service behind a 83, as the sparking panto illuminated the Clyde valley......the novelty never left me......!

I didn't become a proper enthusiast until I was inluenced by new school friends in 1978, when I was old enough to appreciate it better, but a pair of 50s northbound on the climb up Beattock must have been epic thrash value!
 

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