GWR two passengers left behind at Paddington

[800002]

It appears to me that the dispatch process had begun as, what appears to be the group of five, presented themselves.
The close door process has begun as the lead gentleman was quick enough to get on the rearmost door of penultimate vehicle.
The doors closing behind him.

Then, now the group is split with one onboard, four on the platform. The guard then allowed them to board through his local door to avoiding splitting the group.

 

[D1511]

Just to counter this somewhat, I have a family member who is a wheelchair user and if I'm honest is not exactly skilled at maneuvering it! Avanti staff have always been very accommodating, and while I appreciate the delays this passenger may cause at times, the staff have always reassured them that they're not causing an inconvenience. This is especially helpful feedback to them at Warrington Bank Quay where the wheelchair space is something at a very narrow section of platform where maneuvering is difficult.

I've always found them to, in normal circumstances, dispatch trains in a reasonable time.

In that situation, then there's obviously mitigating circumstances as to why there could be a boarding delay, but I'm talking about general punters not being cajoled to get on trains fast enough

 

[Bletchleyite]

I hope the lightweight and useless AWC dispatchers are watching this so they can learn what to do. Crewe, WBQ, Oxenholme and Penrith staff are particularly poor and regularly cost extra minutes.

The passage of time is different in Cumbria. It would probably be easier to pad the timetable than to make people in Cumbria hurry

To be fair the same applies down in Cornwall too. Punctuality matters in London, the more rural you get the less people consider it to matter.

 

[Haywain]

Worth remembering the passengers arriving from the left have likely already been at the train on time and were probably trying to board at the correct door, or were struggling to get on elsewhere. The passengers running from the right are late.

Watching the video clip again, with sound, those people had arrived on the platform and pretty much had the door close in their face (the hustle alarm (or whatever it's called) could be heard) and the guard encouraged them to use his door although the despatch process was already in progress, which he didn't have to do. The two women arrived later and were correctly denied boarding.

 

[Blaine]

Had he not let the group of people on whilst simultaneously putting his arm out to stop the two women there would be no issue.

But the group and the women were next to each other, and indeed the women would have been able to board behind the first person in the group had they not stopped to let the other 3 on.

Hopefully just a mistake by the guy who was focussing elsewhere and had a different perspective to our viewpoint, and you'd hope the passengers would be let on the next train.

 

[D1537]

Whilst LNER do indeed advertise that doors may be locked 2 minutes before departure, you probably need to ensure that people can't enter the platform after that time.

Otherwise you end up with the scenario that I saw a month ago, with passengers fruitlessly stabbing at the door buttons whilst staff shout at them to stand clear, before the train leaves 65 seconds early. Judging by the number of trains that leave KGX up to a minute early on RTT, I don't think this is rare either.

 

[styles]

Whilst LNER do indeed advertise that doors may be locked 2 minutes before departure, you probably need to ensure that people can't enter the platform after that time.

Otherwise you end up with the scenario that I saw a month ago, with passengers fruitlessly stabbing at the door buttons whilst staff shout at them to stand clear, before the train leaves 65 seconds early. Judging by the number of trains that leave KGX up to a minute early on RTT, I don't think this is rare either.

While I do sympathise somewhat, how many people in a relative sense are getting on an intercity train service and trying to board a minute before departure? I wouldn't do this in the UK, India, Germany, Switzerland, Pakistan, the US, all places I've taken such trains. This is what I'd consider, "playing with fire".

 

[Skiddaw]

I hope the lightweight and useless AWC dispatchers are watching this so they can learn what to do. Crewe, WBQ, Oxenholme and Penrith staff are particularly poor and regularly cost extra minutes.

I hope they're watching this so they can be reassured that they're doing it right.

Thank goodness Penrith is my local station. I never fail to appreciate how lovely the AWC staff are. I'd far rather depart a minute or two late than see someone be prevented from boarding the train.

 

[D1511]

I hope they're watching this so they can be reassured that they're doing it right.

Thank goodness Penrith is my local station. I never fail to appreciate how lovely the AWC staff are. I'd far rather depart a minute or two late than see someone be prevented from boarding the train.

Presumably you don't claim for delay repay either then?

 

[Merle Haggard]

I hope they're watching this so they can be reassured that they're doing it right.

Thank goodness Penrith is my local station. I never fail to appreciate how lovely the AWC staff are. I'd far rather depart a minute or two late than see someone be prevented from boarding the train.

If a train departs a minute or to late at each of several stations along the line, it may 'lose its path'. This means that at a converging junction it will be held to allow an on-time service - booked to follow the late running one - will be given precedence, increasing the delay.

Someone who arrived for the train you describe in plenty of time will miss their connection at, in my case, Rugby.

 

[D1511]

If a train departs a minute or to late at each of several stations along the line, it may 'lose its path'. This means that at a converging junction it will be held to allow an on-time service - booked to follow the late running one - will be given precedence, increasing the delay.

Someone who arrived for the train you describe in plenty of time will miss their connection at, in my case, Rugby.

Exactly this.
For those of us that don't live in Penrith, it is just one of the numerous stops I couldn't care less about en route to my final destinations which are hundreds of miles either side of there.
If the train stops for 2 minutes in the timetable, then that is also how long dispatchers have. It's really not complicated.

 

[Bletchleyite]

While I do sympathise somewhat, how many people in a relative sense are getting on an intercity train service and trying to board a minute before departure? I wouldn't do this in the UK, India, Germany, Switzerland, Pakistan, the US, all places I've taken such trains. This is what I'd consider, "playing with fire".

It would be if you did it deliberately. Presumably however circumstances have at some point left you in the position of being a "last minute runner", e.g. a delay to your incoming connection.

Delay Repay I suppose takes away the incentive to rush if you don't need to be somewhere at a given time...but if you do...

 

[D1537]

While I do sympathise somewhat, how many people in a relative sense are getting on an intercity train service and trying to board a minute before departure? I wouldn't do this in the UK, India, Germany, Switzerland, Pakistan, the US, all places I've taken such trains. This is what I'd consider, "playing with fire".

I totally agree, but I also had to (slightly) sympathise with the angry passenger who pointed at the clock reading a couple of seconds before 11:29 as the 11:30 to Edinburgh departed. Perhaps if it was stated more clearly - perhaps when you book the ticket - that "trains may depart up to a minute early" rather than "doors may be locked 2 minutes early" it might happen less often. And of course, some people are always going to turn up too late.

Incidentally, I suspect that the reason that in this case the entrance to Platform 1 couldn't be blocked was because our train had just arrived on Platform 0.

 

[Parallel]

The fact so many people were running fior the train suggests a late announcement, or perhaps an alteration or, as i saw at Paddington on Tuesday, an anouncvement to take a different train to connect with one starting that day at Reading.

As someone who uses Paddington frequently, groups of passengers running for the train as it is about to depart isn’t uncommon, even for trains that have been advertised in good time.

From the recording, the guard comes across as a bit unkind. But we can’t go around accusing people of racism when we don’t know all the details. He may have thought ‘that’s enough, I need to depart’ or there may have been more passengers running out of shot. Services are removed from the screens at Paddington three minutes early to reduce this from happening.

 

[Meole]

The guard has a duty to safety and timely departure not to passengers.

 

[Haywain]

He may have thought ‘that’s enough, I need to depart

I am not certain, but I've a feeling that having reached that stage of the despatch process, if you don't complete it and go then you have to start again and that would result in a delay of more than a few seconds. Therefore the imperative is to complete the process that is, at that point, all but complete.

The guard has a duty to safety and timely departure not to passengers.

Comments like that do not do guards any favours.

 

[Blaine]

The guard has a duty to safety and timely departure not to passengers.

True, and if there's a long queue of never-ending passengers you have to draw the line at a certain point. But when you've closed the other doors and you have 6 customers next to you, you either let none on or 6 on.

 

[Sealink]

I asked ChatGPT about this, and one point it says (take AI with a pinch of salt) is:

The video was filmed at London Paddington and posted on X on 23 August by Ravinder Singh (@ravindrajourno). It has apparently gone well over a million views. It shows two women with substantial suitcases reaching an open door, where a member of staff refuses to let them board, while other passengers appear still to be boarding. The carriage involved appears to be First Class.

The important bit is that nobody seems to have established the context yet. The clip starts too late to show what happened beforehand. In particular, there is currently no verified information establishing:

• what train it was or its scheduled departure time;
• whether the train was already late;
• whether the dispatch procedure had begun;
• whether the women had previously been told to use another door/carriage;
• whether their large luggage was relevant to the decision;
• or why other people apparently continued boarding while the two women were refused.

That last point is what makes the video look particularly odd. If dispatch had simply reached the point where no more passengers could safely be accepted, you'd expect boarding to stop for everybody. But a short video can easily omit something that explains the apparent inconsistency.


The RailUK discussion is actually being fairly sensible about it so far: several posters are essentially saying it looks bad, but we don't know what happened immediately before the recording began. The original poster also raises exactly the possibility you mention — that the train may have been late — and wonders whether the women's large cases played a part.


Bold - mine. I was about to suggest the "substantial suitcases"

 

[styles]

I asked ChatGPT about this, and one point it says (take AI with a pinch of salt) is:

The video was filmed at London Paddington and posted on X on 23 August by Ravinder Singh (@ravindrajourno). It has apparently gone well over a million views. It shows two women with substantial suitcases reaching an open door, where a member of staff refuses to let them board, while other passengers appear still to be boarding. The carriage involved appears to be First Class.

The important bit is that nobody seems to have established the context yet. The clip starts too late to show what happened beforehand. In particular, there is currently no verified information establishing:

• what train it was or its scheduled departure time;
• whether the train was already late;
• whether the dispatch procedure had begun;
• whether the women had previously been told to use another door/carriage;
• whether their large luggage was relevant to the decision;
• or why other people apparently continued boarding while the two women were refused.

That last point is what makes the video look particularly odd. If dispatch had simply reached the point where no more passengers could safely be accepted, you'd expect boarding to stop for everybody. But a short video can easily omit something that explains the apparent inconsistency.


The RailUK discussion is actually being fairly sensible about it so far: several posters are essentially saying it looks bad, but we don't know what happened immediately before the recording began. The original poster also raises exactly the possibility you mention — that the train may have been late — and wonders whether the women's large cases played a part.


Bold - mine. I was about to suggest the "substantial suitcases"

I had to stop at the first sentence.

The video was taken on the 21st August. It was posted by another social media user 2 days before this X post.

Gemini showing itself to be as useless as ever!

 

[Sealink]

The video was posted on 23 August though. Depends on how your read that first line from ChatGPT.

 

[Haywain]

whether the dispatch procedure had begun;

It's obvious that it had.

whether the women had previously been told to use another door/carriage;

They were seen approaching from the gateline.

or why other people apparently continued boarding

They had already gone past the guard and attempted to board at the next door along, as it closed.

 

[styles]

The video was posted on 23 August though. Depends on how your read that first line from ChatGPT.

View attachment 210216

Yes, but I think the statement ChatGPT has generated is misleading because it's been made ambiguous.

The video was posted on 21st August. See timestamp at bottom of screenshot.



Maybe it was reposted two days later.

It's also just hyperbole. What exactly is a 'substantial suitcase'? Aren't all suitcases substantial? The passengers in the video don't appear to be carrying suitcases filled with concrete.

 

[Haywain]

The video was posted on 23 August though.

It was posted on X on 21 August.

 

[styles]

It was posted on X on 23 August.

It was posted on the 21st August:

 

[bunnahabhain]

If the train wasn't departing early, then unless there is some exceptional circumstance, e.g. platform being very late to be advertised, there is absolutely no issue here.

As no information is given to the contrary, we can only assume that these people were running late for their train, and there has to be a cut-off somewhere. They arrived just as the despatch process was being made, and given they had luggage, then it's really just a case of tough luck, someone has to be the first to miss out.

If there was any further context provided, we could debate the rights and wrongs in more detail, but without any context, there is no evidence whatsoever of anything untoward happening here.

A very sensible and considered comment and one I fully agree with. There's absolutely nothing to see in the video unless you want to see something.

 

[pwharley]

GWR have posted a "Statement on late boarding" on their web site today.

"In response to questions about how GWR deals with late arrivals to trains, a GWR spokesman said:
"The safety of our passengers is always our first priority, and our train despatch process is designed to ensure everyone can board safely.
"Once passenger doors are closed, our Train Managers complete a final safety check before signalling to the driver that the train is ready to depart. At that point, reopening the doors would mean stopping and restarting a safety-critical process and could delay the service for everyone on board.
"Customers arriving after this process has begun may therefore be unable to board, even if the train is still stationary. This is particularly the case for those carrying large or heavy items of luggage, where there may not be enough time to board safely.
"We understand this can be frustrating, but train managers must make a judgment based on safety, the punctual running of the train and the stage the departure process has reached.
"We also have a responsibility to the many hundreds of passengers already on board to keep the train running on time, and our colleagues balance both considerations with every departure. We would always encourage customers to allow plenty of time to board before their train is due to depart.""

Statement on late boarding | GWR News

In response to questions about how GWR deals with late arrivals to trains, a GWR spokesman said:

news.gwr.com

I imagine this was prompted by the video being discussed.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Yes, but I think the statement ChatGPT has generated is misleading because it's been made ambiguous.

It's also just hyperbole. What exactly is a 'substantial suitcase'? Aren't all suitcases substantial? The passengers in the video don't appear to be carrying suitcases filled with concrete.

No, but they were being wheeled and looked too bulky to just carry on easily, especially as they were carrying other bags on top of the wheeled ones.

 

[styles]

GWR have posted a "Statement on late boarding" on their web site today.

"In response to questions about how GWR deals with late arrivals to trains, a GWR spokesman said:
"The safety of our passengers is always our first priority, and our train despatch process is designed to ensure everyone can board safely.
"Once passenger doors are closed, our Train Managers complete a final safety check before signalling to the driver that the train is ready to depart. At that point, reopening the doors would mean stopping and restarting a safety-critical process and could delay the service for everyone on board.
"Customers arriving after this process has begun may therefore be unable to board, even if the train is still stationary. This is particularly the case for those carrying large or heavy items of luggage, where there may not be enough time to board safely.
"We understand this can be frustrating, but train managers must make a judgment based on safety, the punctual running of the train and the stage the departure process has reached.
"We also have a responsibility to the many hundreds of passengers already on board to keep the train running on time, and our colleagues balance both considerations with every departure. We would always encourage customers to allow plenty of time to board before their train is due to depart.""

Statement on late boarding | GWR News

In response to questions about how GWR deals with late arrivals to trains, a GWR spokesman said:

news.gwr.com

I imagine this was prompted by the video being discussed.

TLDR - get to your train on time pls

 

[D1511]

I imagine this was prompted by the video being discussed.

Do you think so?

Clearly a PR team intervention alerted by the social media team!

 

[Transilien]

Wow. This is just a very speculative assumption.
Perhaps his dad fought in the far east during WW2 or he thought they were Millwall hooligans.

Which is funny considering the Chinese were very much on the allied side in WW2.