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UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

Bletchleyite

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A lot of those houses are unaffordable for most normal people (they are half a million or more) you need to be on a 6 figure salary to afford a mortgage for one. Compared to flats and terraced houses with communal parking without affordable charging infrastructure

I live in a terraced house in the South East, it is a small 3 bed built in 1970, nothing special. It has a driveway and garage, as do all the others around it. There are plenty of such houses. Probably more of them than Victorian terraces to be honest, other than in London itself.

Again ignoring London itself, most people in the SE do not live in flats.
 
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jon0844

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Where the ZEV uses resistive heater elements to warm the cabin and not by an air-heat pump. Does anyone know the typical power draw in KwHr?

My car doesn't have a heat pump. On a cold day if I get the car to pre-heat then it can take about 1% off the battery. That would be about 0.4kWh used, although I'm not sure how long the heater runs at full blast.

Once to temperature, the heating will turn on and off as required to maintain the temperature and given a car cabin is pretty small compared to a room, I wouldn't expect much power to be 'wasted'. A far bigger drain on the battery is having a heavy right foot, which is the same as for any ICE car.
 
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trebor79

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1kW that may be too low, 2 or 3kW may be right, where the ZEV uses resistive heater elements to warm the cabin and not by an air-heat pump. Does anyone know the typical draw in Kw?
When I preheat and defrost my Tesla in the middle of winter it will pull 7kW when plugged in, but that drops to about 1.5-2kW after not very long. When driving waste heat from the motors etc is scavenged and used for cabin and battery heating, with the heat pump doing the rest.
 

cactustwirly

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I live in a terraced house in the South East, it is a small 3 bed built in 1970, nothing special. It has a driveway and garage, as do all the others around it. There are plenty of such houses. Probably more of them than Victorian terraces to be honest, other than in London itself.

Again ignoring London itself, most people in the SE do not live in flats.

I live in a 1980s terrace, with communal parking, in the Thames Valley.

Your house would be at least £450k in my local area, which isn't the sort of affordable house for a young professional, cleaner, supermarket worker etc.
 

styles

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I am so glad I don't live in the south east of England any more. For (much) less money we have a 5 bed detatched house with a driveway big enough for 4 cars.

I was looking at company car EVs yesterday. For a net cost of £290/month I can get a >300mi real world conditions range EV, including fully comp insurance, 4,000 miles of free charging, MOT, servicing, VED, breakdown cover, and a free home charger.

Now, £3480 for the year is more than my old diesel cost, but I estimate the 4000mi to be worth about £500, MOT £55, insurance about £1200 for this car, service maybe £250-300, VED £20, breakdown about £60 I'd guess (though I get this free with my bank account anyway).

After that, we do about 12k miles a year so after the 4k free miles if we charge at home for the remaining 8k miles, charging at home on an off-peak tariff would save around £1300 a year compared to today's diesel prices.

All in all it actually comes close to break even to get a brand new car than continue running our 12 year old diesel, and obviously better for the environment, and less time spent me jacking it up to do repairs etc. It's a lease of course, but my calculations haven't actually factored in the cost of purchasing the diesel car we have, so it's a like for like annual outgoings comparison.

Maybe it's time for us to consider upgrading our motor.
 

cactustwirly

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I am so glad I don't live in the south east of England any more. For (much) less money we have a 5 bed detatched house with a driveway big enough for 4 cars.

I was looking at company car EVs yesterday. For a net cost of £290/month I can get a >300mi real world conditions range EV, including fully comp insurance, 4,000 miles of free charging, MOT, servicing, VED, breakdown cover, and a free home charger.

Now, £3480 for the year is more than my old diesel cost, but I estimate the 4000mi to be worth about £500, MOT £55, insurance about £1200 for this car, service maybe £250-300, VED £20, breakdown about £60 I'd guess (though I get this free with my bank account anyway).

After that, we do about 12k miles a year so after the 4k free miles if we charge at home for the remaining 8k miles, charging at home on an off-peak tariff would save around £1300 a year compared to today's diesel prices.

All in all it actually comes close to break even to get a brand new car than continue running our 12 year old diesel, and obviously better for the environment, and less time spent me jacking it up to do repairs etc. It's a lease of course, but my calculations haven't actually factored in the cost of purchasing the diesel car we have, so it's a like for like annual outgoings comparison.

Maybe it's time for us to consider upgrading our motor.
Your insurance figure seems awfully high!
Do you live in a high car crime area like Birmingham?
 

Peter Sarf

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I think, at the moment, if I needed a replacement car and was using it enough then an EV might make sense.
But lack of home charging (no drive) stumps me rather. Then again if I am doing a very low mileage then the cost of charging vs petrol is not a factor.
It is the economics of a banger for me and really not sure a sub £2k (very secondhand) EV is common enough yet. But give it time.

As for type of car. Having liked the Vauxhall Carlton I miss this size of car. I need a useful size for the trips I make.
As people say MPVs took over that segment and have then disappeared in favour of SUVs.
That is a problem regardless of whether you want an ICE or an EV really.
 

AM9

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I think, at the moment, if I needed a replacement car and was using it enough then an EV might make sense.
But lack of home charging (no drive) stumps me rather. Then again if I am doing a very low mileage then the cost of charging vs petrol is not a factor.
It is the economics of a banger for me and really not sure a sub £2k (very secondhand) EV is common enough yet. But give it time.

As for type of car. Having liked the Vauxhall Carlton I miss this size of car. I need a useful size for the trips I make.
As people say MPVs took over that segment and have then disappeared in favour of SUVs.
That is a problem regardless of whether you want an ICE or an EV really.
It's ironic that a utility design like MPVs have been largely replaced by fashionable SUV style models. They have less passenger capacity, are heavier, less stable and aerodynamic than conventional cars.
 

Sun Chariot

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Two years ago, I noticed our local police constabulary (southeast Hampshire) had introduced a Kia EV6 patrol car. After two or three months, I no longer saw it in our area. I haven't seen any EV emergency services vehicle since.

Does any constabulary in your area operate EVs, for urban or traffic policing? I am quite curious at the national uptake
 

Snow1964

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Two years ago, I noticed our local police constabulary (southeast Hampshire) had introduced a Kia EV6 patrol car. After two or three months, I no longer saw it in our area. I haven't seen any EV emergency services vehicle since.

Does any constabulary in your area operate EVs, for urban or traffic policing? I am quite curious at the national uptake

In my area, Wiltshire Police have 26 EV and one PHEV in fleet of 487


I saw a survey that said top EVs by police force
Metropolitan 135
Gloucestershire 89
Surrey & Sussex 33
West Midlands 32
Dorset 26
Wiltshire 26

Hampshire, Lincolnshire, South Yorkshire, all >10


10 have none : Cambrideshire, Cleveland, Durham, Essex, Humberside, Lancashire, Leicestershire, Northamptonshire, North Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire
 

Mawkie

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Two years ago, I noticed our local police constabulary (southeast Hampshire) had introduced a Kia EV6 patrol car. After two or three months, I no longer saw it in our area. I haven't seen any EV emergency services vehicle since.

Does any constabulary in your area operate EVs, for urban or traffic policing? I am quite curious at the national uptake
I've noticed at fair few London Ambulance Service electric vehicles. Funnily enough, my friend is an LAS advanced paramedic and his experience with the rapid response EVs has inspired him to choose an EV for his next personal vehicle where he had previous dismissed them. I think that is also representative of EV converts nationally - whether that is experience of colleagues, taxis, work vans/cars - once they see for themselves that EVs work for most people's situations, they are sold!

London Ambulance Service (LAS) has added a further 77 fully-electric emergency response vehicles to its fleet, as it looks to cut emissions and air pollution as it saves lives across the UK’s capital. The new arrivals consist of 37 electric ambulances and 40 rapid response cars, bringing the total number of EVs in LAS’ fleet to 125 (that’s 41 electric ambulances, 81 electric rapid responders, and 3 electric motorbikes).
 

Peter Sarf

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It's ironic that a utility design like MPVs have been largely replaced by fashionable SUV style models. They have less passenger capacity, are heavier, less stable and aerodynamic than conventional cars.
Yes, SUVs. I never thought I would be seen driving one but have ended up with a 2012 Honda CRV. It is more comfortable over the speed bumps round here (I drive slowly but ...). But I kind of wish I could have got my hands on the previous version with a more estate like rear end. Having just taken it camping (family music festival) it does have less capacity than a Vauxhall Carlton estate. This year I planned on not taking any cookable food, cooker, cooker table/bench/station and gas as it saves a lot of packing and distraction while there. Car was full and harder to juggle things !. I will have to get roof bars and use my roof box before a proper camping trip comes up.

It is a pity that trend away from useful carrying cars has continued with EVs. BUT perhaps the boot capacity etc of an EV will make up for it when I reach the stage of buying a banger EV. Fashion - pah.

I think my main concerns with a banger EV will be how much battery capacity is left (an improving trend I feel) and software life (oh well).
 

jon0844

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My annual cost is half that with a group 39 car!

Group 39 will be based on parts cost, security, repair times and more (as well as performance) - so perhaps you need to look at something that has less risk? Possibly an old car with poor parts availability? A design that makes repairs expensive? A car with security that doesn't match modern-day requirements?

Imagine how cheap your insurance could be with a lower-grouped car!
 

Magrar

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The market and practical economics of private EV cars has simply baked in the increasingly selfish and unequal nature of society, along well established lines.

Bizarrely, even new measures like tax per mile, do nothing about how little even the users of small or mid range EVs, if they are doing small commutes and the school run, are contributing to society, specifcally their massive impediment to viable public transport.

It's horrific how blase people are to areas like the North East, with the full assistance of UK state owned rail, being funnelled down the same iditoc car dependent route of economic growth and thus benefit. For who? We know who.

The irony is not lost on anyone with even a hint of social responsibility, that in those areas most of all, illegal and dangerous use of escoters and ebikes, to further economic opportunity, has been far more prevalent than things legal EV innovation could have driven to reshape travel, such as DRT or car share.

I am amazed nobody even talks about the dangers of how quiet and rapidly accelerating EVs are anymore, which carries risks as diverse as the should know better mature adults trying to shave seconds on high speed strategic roads in ever more dangerous ways than before, and those responsible for EV double decker bus routes that run within inches of night time economy patrons on narrow pavements, audible ironically only because of the dilapidated state of our roads.

Why is it still financially viable and politically acceptable to build or redevelop urban petrol stations with all the car dependant features of modern selfish convenience? Clearly hybrids were not the answer to any important question of the last decade. Who benefitted? We know who.

Why has nobody apparently even noticed how bizarre it is that the Chinese have flooded the UK bus market, but seem to be entirely locked out of the UK heavy truck market? Clearly something extremely silly or dodgy is at work. It says a lot that it might not even be the most obvious answer - the now widely known criminal cartel nature of European truck manufacture.

Can Burnham fix any of this? Probably not. Users of EVs have spoken. The market has done what it will do. Politics has at best, offered only mitigation, but at worst, ensured we enter a new age of selfish car depedancy.
 
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cactustwirly

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Group 39 will be based on parts cost, security, repair times and more (as well as performance) - so perhaps you need to look at something that has less risk? Possibly an old car with poor parts availability? A design that makes repairs expensive? A car with security that doesn't match modern-day requirements?

Imagine how cheap your insurance could be with a lower-grouped car!
I was replying to Styles and his high insurance cost, I was saying mine was significantly cheaper despite having a higher risk. So basically saying it sounds well off.

Insurance groups are determined when the car first comes to the market, so the age of the car has nothing to do with what group it is
 

jon0844

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I was replying to Styles and his high insurance cost, I was saying mine was significantly cheaper despite having a higher risk. So basically saying it sounds well off.

Insurance groups are determined when the car first comes to the market, so the age of the car has nothing to do with what group it is

Yes but the amount you're charged for that group does and changes as time goes on. If the car is still in production then it influences the price because parts may be more readily available.

There's also an element of hedging involved when they decide on a group based on predictions. They won't know about things like almost anyone being able to steal a Range Rover until it starts happening.

Anyway the point is that if you're paying less, you would likely pay even less by switching to a lower group car. It's as much about you and your history, job, location as the car itself.
 

75A

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Two years ago, I noticed our local police constabulary (southeast Hampshire) had introduced a Kia EV6 patrol car. After two or three months, I no longer saw it in our area. I haven't seen any EV emergency services vehicle since.

Does any constabulary in your area operate EVs, for urban or traffic policing? I am quite curious at the national uptake
Haven't see a single electric Police car yet in Ulster

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Meanwhile petrol is still above 160p round my way.
Paid 152.9 this morning in Castlewellan.
 

jon0844

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Costco is averaging 156.9p with the branch in Manchester only 146.9p - but the national average is reportedly around 159.6p. (E10 Unleaded)

Meanwhile there are people still on fixed 3.5p off-peak electricity tariffs, if they were lucky enough to fix at the right time!
 

Flying Snail

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Haven't see a single electric Police car yet in Ulster

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Pretty unlikely they'll be sticking a massive lithium battery in armoured land rovers.
 

marshlinker

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And we saw what a diesel Range Rover could do to a car park (Luton Airport).
Its largely irrelevant what fuel the prime mover of the Range Rover was. It was a Range Rover Sport which is Diesel Mild Hybrid. According to the Bedfordshire fire brigade the most likely cause was an electrical fault or engine bay component fault. Would have applied equally to a BEV in all likelihood.
 

DiscoSteve

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ensured we enter a new age of selfish car depedancy.
and there you revealed what you are - an opinionated left winger who has no idea of the reality of modern life with kids and older people who DEPEND on the car for their livelihood and ability to provide a life for themselves and their family. there is NOTHING selfish about the need or desire to own a car.
 

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