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Currently stuck on 1D32 which has been stopped south of Grantham for over 3 hours now after 1D31 has apparently struck a deer and come to a halt in Stoke Tunnel, affecting several other services. At least one train in the area has had some passengers self-evacuating against instructions. There...
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It really isn't hard to forsee people taking matters into their own hands after such a ridiculous amount of time. 2 hours max for a plan to be in place to walk people off to the nearest access point.
It really isn't hard to forsee people taking matters into their own hands after such a ridiculous amount of time. 2 hours max for a plan to be in place to walk people off to the nearest access point.
Then the railway needs a credible plan to move passengers by rail within an acceptable timescale (two hours or so). Clearly - as demonstrated with this incident and numerous others - it is no longer capable of doing so. And you wonder why passengers self evacuate when faced with such utterly limp responses...
It really isn't hard to forsee people taking matters into their own hands after such a ridiculous amount of time. 2 hours max for a plan to be in place to walk people off to the nearest access point.
Let’s say they did this last night, and evacuated the passengers to an access point on some country lane. Would they have got to Wakefield and Leeds any quicker than the ECS of the train they were evacuated from?
Let’s say they did this last night, and evacuated the passengers to an access point on some country lane. Would they have got to Wakefield and Leeds any quicker than the ECS of the train they were evacuated from?
Well, yes, actually. The road journey would be about an hour and a half compared to a train journey of about half an hour.
Obviously that's an hour longer, but compared to three hours sat on the train waiting, plus the train travel time, that's a saving of 2.5 hours for passengers going to Wakefield. Even if you allow a large buffer for organising some road transport, they'd probably have ended up in Wakefield earlier.
Well, yes, actually. The road journey would be about an hour and a half compared to a train journey of about half an hour.
Obviously that's an hour longer, but compared to three hours sat on the train waiting, plus the train travel time, that's a saving of 2.5 hours for passengers going to Wakefield.
Assuming you have a coach or a fleet of taxis waiting at the access point. Is that guaranteed? And is that journey time direct, or stopping at each station too?
No, it's not. But if I were a coach operator asked to last minute supply half a dozen coaches at a last minute and night time premium I would jump at it. That's how many train cancellations happen as it goes. Even if you had to wait a whopping 2 hours for the coaches, you'd still beat the train.
No, it's not. But if I were a coach operator asked to last minute supply half a dozen coaches at a last minute and night time premium I would jump at it. That's how many train cancellations happen as it goes. Even if you had to wait a whopping 2 hours for the coaches, you'd still beat the train.
It doesn't matter what the coach operator agrees to, are you guaranteed to get the coach drivers out of bed at that time of night? From experience - No!
It doesn't matter what the coach operator agrees to, are you guaranteed to get the coach drivers out of bed at that time of night? From experience - No!
No, it's not. But if I were a coach operator asked to last minute supply half a dozen coaches at a last minute and night time premium I would jump at it. That's how many train cancellations happen as it goes. Even if you had to wait a whopping 2 hours for the coaches, you'd still beat the train.
I love the optimism, but even in the daytime when there’s disruption, it can feel like a long wait between the TOC announcing they’re sourcing taxis/buses and any buses/taxis actually arriving.
As speaking from someone who many a time has called up on coach companies at midnight to get people moving, the answer 99% of the time is a resounding no.
No, it's not. But if I were a coach operator asked to last minute supply half a dozen coaches at a last minute and night time premium I would jump at it. That's how many train cancellations happen as it goes. Even if you had to wait a whopping 2 hours for the coaches, you'd still beat the train.
You've got a fair difference between passengers there. An accomplished hiker wearing sensible shoes would be fine (pretty much everyone has a torch these days on their phone). Someone dressed for a night out in high heels rather less so. The railway does tend to have to deal in lowest common denominators.
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Coaches are used for such incidents, and many coach companies do have standby casual drivers who do do work like that. I know someone personally who used to, his main job wasn't driving coaches but occasionally he'd get a call to see if he could do a last minute rail replacement or a scheduled run where a driver hadn't turned up or had gone sick.
It might not be the most practical way, but despite the legal constraints the coach and bus industry are much more flexible than the rail industry in how they work.
Having said that, it isn't the best way to do things because of the hazards at the access points and dealing with stuff like luggage. It is probably easier to try to get trains back to stations to evacuate. This is one reason why batteries or donkey engines added to EMUs are a really good idea, even if they only allow a 5mph shunt move back to a station when the wires are down. It's also a good reason why trains should all have toilets, and why those that don't should carry some kind of emergency arrangement for toileting.
I do think the railway needs to do better on this sort of incident. I have personally been delayed 3 hours in a station at a disused platform which caused me to miss a flight and a day of a holiday - insurable, sure, but a massive pain. It hasn't happened to me often, but in this case an evacuation could have been promptly and safely carried out, unlike the one pictured.
Going back a bit I was once on a Merseyrail train stuck just outside Ormskirk for a couple of hours due to an electrical fault on board. As I was on the way to school and didn't fancy the first lesson I elected to stay on board, but they were letting people out of the cab door to go and jump the fence if they wanted. That wouldn't be allowed today but it was certainly a pragmatic solution with fairly minimal risk, and it wouldn't have been too hard to do a formal evacuation at that location with a set of wire snips and an apology and new fence for its owner.
You've got a fair difference between passengers there. An accomplished hiker wearing sensible shoes would be fine (pretty much everyone has a torch these days on their phone). Someone dressed for a night out in high heels rather less so. The railway does tend to have to deal in lowest common denominators.
I don't think the railway *has* to deal in lowest common denominators. Sort the train-to-train evac (or rescue train) and while that's inevitably taking hours let the people who want to do the hike. I reckon this would stop most of the self-evacuations since anyone thinking of trying it would just take the hike option.
One thing nobody has mentioned is how some people may self evacuate because they suffer claustrophobia, and this is made worse with no windows that can be opened on modern trains. That sense of fresh air probably used to help calm by leaning (carefully) out a drop down window. I’ve seen pictures from some stranded trains where doors are deliberately opened by staff and a barrier is put across the bottom half. If that was more routine, with all trains carrying one or two barriers, anyone agitated and threatening to de-train could be asked to stand at such a door. I’m not making excuses for anyone who does ignore commands to stay on board, so just saying…
let the people who want to do the hike. I reckon this would stop most of the self-evacuations since anyone thinking of trying it would just take the hike option.
Who looks after the passengers walking along the track, sees them all safely off the railway at a (hopefully not too far away) access point and then assists/reassures them that road transport is, or far more likely, is not, on its way to take them all, very soon, home? And this quite possibly in the dark and adverse weather. While doing all this, who remains in the train to deal with those left behind?
Just to clarify, as it has managed to gain a surprising level of traction, my suggestion of an hour long hike to a golf club when a train is stuck wasn't actually serious.
But, particularly when you are so close to reaching an actual railway station, and where walking the remaining distance would be quicker than a 3h+ wait with limited information, it is unsurprising that some passengers just take matters into their own hands. I wouldn't advocate for it, but I'm unsurprised by it.
As a minimum the railway needs to be able to communicate rough timescales. They don't need to be exact, but 3h in to a delay and the staff and passengers on board the stuck trains still don't have some form of estimate is really not acceptable. From a myriad of reasons, people are more understanding of delays if they're given both a reason, a rough idea of when they'll be moving again, and regular updates even if just to confirm the initial estimate is still the working one.
Fundamentally in this example I don't think it should be necessary to evacuate passengers - instead the leading train which struck a deer should've been moving again more quickly. They're not even 2 miles from Grantham. It's hardly Knoydart.
There are times when evacuation is necessary, such as when trains derail, and this seems to happen fine, but understandably you need a lot of extra hands on deck to do it safely. When evacuation isn't necessary, the railway needs to respond quicker than this to prevent passengers self-evacuating.
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