Whittlesea station and East Midlands Railway stopping cancellations

[Trainfan2019]

Can anyone shed any light on Whittlesea station and the EMR morning service please?

I keep a daily check on the EMR app for any changes, cancellations etc. Quite often the 8:16am EMR train is cancelled, like today, due to a fault on the train. However, the cancellation only applies to Whittlesea and not the other stations the train calls at.

What is different about Whittlesea compared to the other stations on the Norwich to Liverpool route? It's not my route and I don't know that area but I'm really curious. Thanks.

 

[Intercity_225]

Can anyone shed any light on Whittlesea station and the EMR morning service please?

I keep a daily check on the EMR app for any changes, cancellations etc. Quite often the 8:16am EMR train is cancelled, like today, due to a fault on the train. However, the cancellation only applies to Whittlesea and not the other stations the train calls at.

What is different about Whittlesea compared to the other stations on the Norwich to Liverpool route? It's not my route and I don't know that area but I'm really curious. Thanks.

Would it be something to do with the short platform at Whittlesea?

 

[The exile]

Would it be something to do with the short platform at Whittlesea?

I wondered exactly the same thing when I noticed the same train not calling there on Saturday (3-car 170 vice 2-car 158 was my thought)

 

[LowLevel]

It is because the train is booked a 3 car 170, but EMR only consider the down platform suitable for releasing 1 carriage's doors as there isn't sufficient extra margin of error for stopping with 2.

The problem is there are 2 types of 3 car 170, the diagram is booked for one of the 7 x 170/4s which have door controls in all carriage saloons. However, on the 170/2 3 car sets there are only door controls in the middle carriage and rear cab accessible to the guard so you can't stop at single carriage platforms so Whittlesea gets a not to stop order.

It robs Whittlesea of it's main morning peak service and is a far from satisfactory outcome, particularly given the same units used to serve the station routinely for Anglia, however there isn't the budget to standardise the door controls and EMR don't appear to be willing to agree to work the platform with 2 coaches so that's the result.

 

[evergreenadam]

The station had 51k recorded passenger journeys in 2024-25 which is quite good considering the frequency is generally 1 train every two hours. The existing service level is probably suppressing demand.

 

[Magdalia]

I keep a daily check on the EMR app for any changes, cancellations etc. Quite often the 8:16am EMR train is cancelled, like today, due to a fault on the train. However, the cancellation only applies to Whittlesea and not the other stations the train calls at.

This is a nice little example of what happens when services are managed from far away by people who know little and care less about the service they are providing.

The station had 51k recorded passenger journeys in 2024-25 which is quite good considering the frequency is generally 1 train every two hours. The existing service level is probably suppressing demand.

About 35% of those journeys are to/from Peterborough. The 0816 is the only EMR train booked to stop at Whittlesea, but it is a key train for Whittlesea-Peterborough passengers, the next Whittlesea-Peterborough train being at 0931. The Whittlesea stop is made to facilitate Whittlesea-Peterborough commuting; it doesn't do that if the commuters can't rely on the train to stop.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It is because the train is booked a 3 car 170, but EMR only consider the down platform suitable for releasing 1 carriage's doors as there isn't sufficient extra margin of error for stopping with 2.

The problem is there are 2 types of 3 car 170, the diagram is booked for one of the 7 x 170/4s which have door controls in all carriage saloons. However, on the 170/2 3 car sets there are only door controls in the middle carriage and rear cab accessible to the guard so you can't stop at single carriage platforms so Whittlesea gets a not to stop order.

It robs Whittlesea of it's main morning peak service and is a far from satisfactory outcome, particularly given the same units used to serve the station routinely for Anglia, however there isn't the budget to standardise the door controls and EMR don't appear to be willing to agree to work the platform with 2 coaches so that's the result.

170202 seemed to stop there today weirdly. Using the rear coach perhaps?

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C21812/2026-08-20/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[LowLevel]

170202 seemed to stop there today weirdly. Using the rear coach perhaps?

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C21812/2026-08-20/detailed#allox_id=0

It didn't actually call, a not to stop order was issued.

 

[liamf656]

It is because the train is booked a 3 car 170, but EMR only consider the down platform suitable for releasing 1 carriage's doors as there isn't sufficient extra margin of error for stopping with 2.

The problem is there are 2 types of 3 car 170, the diagram is booked for one of the 7 x 170/4s which have door controls in all carriage saloons. However, on the 170/2 3 car sets there are only door controls in the middle carriage and rear cab accessible to the guard so you can't stop at single carriage platforms so Whittlesea gets a not to stop order.

It robs Whittlesea of it's main morning peak service and is a far from satisfactory outcome, particularly given the same units used to serve the station routinely for Anglia, however there isn't the budget to standardise the door controls and EMR don't appear to be willing to agree to work the platform with 2 coaches so that's the result.

Exactly the same issue at Havenhouse if I remember right

 

[LowLevel]

Exactly the same issue at Havenhouse if I remember right

Yes, albeit a different level of inconvenience in terms of passenger numbers.

 

[Intercity_225]

Does this issue apply to the 170/1s or /6s aswell? Or is it just the /2s?

 

[The exile]

Yes, albeit a different level of inconvenience in terms of passenger numbers.

To each passenger it is irrelevant whether they are the only one or one of thousands. That is the only metric that matters. The regulator should be coming down on this (like on many other things) like a ton of bricks and serving some kind of enforcement order - at the very least for alternative transport to be already available on each occasion it happens - ie being proactive.

 

[LowLevel]

To each passenger it is irrelevant whether they are the only one or one of thousands. That is the only metric that matters. The regulator should be coming down on this (like on many other things) like a ton of bricks and serving some kind of enforcement order - at the very least for alternative transport to be already available on each occasion it happens - ie being proactive.

You'd have thought so yet it's allowed to happen. Happily at Havenhouse there's basically no one to inconvenience as there's no regular (or indeed irregular) passengers, unlike Whittlesea.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

170202 seemed to stop there today weirdly. Using the rear coach perhaps?

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C21812/2026-08-20/detailed#allox_id=0

The stop was 0 minutes, so there won't have been any actual time to stop, board, and depart.

Timings at Whittlesea are entered manually (presumably by the signaller) and there is some slight variance with how they report non-stopping services, sometimes it shows simultaneous arrival and departure, sometimes only a departure time is entered.

 

[Dr Hoo]

We always seem to be hearing how
‘Anglia’ ( or whatever it’s called now with GA, c2c and Network Rail all one happy proto-GBR family).
So what are they doing about ‘their’ station, which seems to be unfit for purpose?

 

[The exile]

We always seem to be hearing how
‘Anglia’ ( or whatever it’s called now with GA, c2c and Network Rail all one happy proto-GBR family).
So what are they doing about ‘their’ station, which seems to be unfit for purpose?

It sounds as if it’s fit for purpose under the “Anglia” umbrella - since this problem doesn’t arise with their trains. It’s the trains that EMR deploy that aren’t fit for purpose.

 

[Dr Hoo]

It sounds as if it’s fit for purpose under the “Anglia” umbrella - since this problem doesn’t arise with their trains. It’s the trains that EMR deploy that aren’t fit for purpose.

I think that you mean that it’s a chilling portent of what a future balkanised, silo-minded outfit GBR might be like. Instead of welcoming longer trains with more capacity let’s take the centre cars out and make sure that loads of passengers of other legs of the Norwich-Liverpool route have to stand instead.
Whatever happened to the ‘single guiding mind’?
I get that the platforms can’t be lengthened instantly but can anyone assure us that there is at least a scheme in the pipeline?

 

[zwk500]

I get that the platforms can’t be lengthened instantly but can anyone assure us that there is at least a scheme in the pipeline?

Fenland Stations - Cambridgeshire & Peterborough Combined Authority

Fenland District Council area contains three railway stations, at Manea, March and Whittlesea that are in need of significant updating.

cambridgeshirepeterborough-ca.gov.uk

There is indeed a scheme in the pipeline. However, it's part of a programme covering March and Manea as well, and the current focus seems to be on those two stations with Whittlesea platform extensions and other improvements to follow after.

 

[William3000]

The station had 51k recorded passenger journeys in 2024-25 which is quite good considering the frequency is generally 1 train every two hours. The existing service level is probably suppressing demand.

It has improved - but remains low compared to other similar sized towns like Spalding, Oakham, March etc

 

[The exile]

I think that you mean that it’s a chilling portent of what a future balkanised, silo-minded outfit GBR might be like. Instead of welcoming longer trains with more capacity let’s take the centre cars out and make sure that loads of passengers of other legs of the Norwich-Liverpool route have to stand instead.
Whatever happened to the ‘single guiding mind’?
I get that the platforms can’t be lengthened instantly but can anyone assure us that there is at least a scheme in the pipeline?

No - I mean that the operator that runs all but one of the trains that stop there has a workable method of doing so. The operator that runs the other has failed to ensure that the trains that it uses all are equipped to stop there safely, according (I believe) to its own rules.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Fenland Stations - Cambridgeshire & Peterborough Combined Authority

Fenland District Council area contains three railway stations, at Manea, March and Whittlesea that are in need of significant updating.

cambridgeshirepeterborough-ca.gov.uk

There is indeed a scheme in the pipeline. However, it's part of a programme covering March and Manea as well, and the current focus seems to be on those two stations with Whittlesea platform extensions and other improvements to follow after.

Thank you for that.

 

[45Fox]

Does this issue apply to the 170/1s or /6s aswell? Or is it just the /2s?

170/1s & 170/6s (also 170397 & 170398) operated by CrossCountry are all fitted with Selective Door Opening (SDO) and door panels in every vehicle.

The Senior Conductor presses the SDO button prior to releasing the train doors, this releases all doors on that vehicle and any vehicles forward, on all vehicles behind the doors remain unrealeased.

This enables any amount of vehicles from 1 (SDO release from front vehicle) to the whole train to have the doors released.

 

[LowLevel]

170/1s & 170/6s (also 170397 & 170398) operated by CrossCountry are all fitted with Selective Door Opening (SDO) and door panels in every vehicle.

The Senior Conductor presses the SDO button prior to releasing the train doors, this releases all doors on that vehicle and any vehicles forward, on all vehicles behind the doors remain unrealeased.

This enables any amount of vehicles from 1 (SDO release from front vehicle) to the whole train to have the doors released.

Indeed - the 170/1s were originally different but were modified around 2013 to the same SDO system as the /3, /5 and /6 fleet. Before that you had to be careful on certain diagrams as they couldn't serve short platforms.

 

[dk1]

170202 seemed to stop there today weirdly. Using the rear coach perhaps?

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C21812/2026-08-20/detailed#allox_id=0

Anglia Railways 3-cars (201-208) had ‘deselect’ function which released the doors on only the front two carriages.

 

[Starmill]

A slight adjustment to the platform end to enable the stop mark to be moved forwards a metre would probably solve that one. Trains stop on finer margins than that already.

The problem is that when testing new rolling stock now, people are so nervous about signing off marginal safety cases that they're often considered not to meet the standard, even though the existing trains have exactly the same issues. See also the four car 331s at Dinting, where the view and gap are just as poor as with a 323. But a 323 is allowed while the 331 is not.

 

[Pippy1505]

Anglia Railways 3-cars (201-208) had ‘deselect’ function which released the doors on only the front two carriages.

suspect that was driver operated at Anglia - at EMR only S/Conductors operate the doors not drivers

 

[Class 170101]

suspect that was driver operated at Anglia - at EMR only S/Conductors operate the doors not drivers

Pretty certain it wasn't.

 

[dk1]

suspect that was driver operated at Anglia - at EMR only S/Conductors operate the doors not drivers

No, the guards operated the red deselect button in the rear cab. This stopped the doors opening on the rear coach. There was and still is no DOO on Anglia local routes.

 

[transportphoto]

suspect that was driver operated at Anglia - at EMR only S/Conductors operate the doors not drivers

The only DOO with 170s on Anglia was Ipswich to London, IIRC.

 

[dk1]

The only DOO with 170s on Anglia was Ipswich to London, IIRC.

Yes that was correct and when the through services from Peterborough & Lowestoft where withdrawn in 2011/12 all Norwich drivers lost their DOO competency. Ipswich & Liverpool St (AR depots) retained theirs as they had class 317/321/322s on their route cards and selected diagrams.