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Stagecoach Yorkshire and Chesterfield

Teapot42

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12 Jan 2022
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Accompanying my wife to the bus this morning, I noticed a lot of steam coming off the front wheels of the E400EV. Is this normal? It will have just come down a longish incline, so I wonder if the regen isn't enough to keep within the (50) limit and the friction brakes are needed to such a degree they get hot? I'm surprised the regen is this weak if that was the cause though - I might have to gently apply the brakes in my (diesel) car to keep within the limit on that hill.

Stop was Acorn Ridge, bus coming from the Matlock direction.

On other local matters, there are some roadworks at Markham Vale which are causing significant issues, especially at peak times. Our 90/90A has been completely messed up and last night it even knocked on to the evening 91 service, with the first two journeys in to town not running. Highlights how even the best organised operation can be badly affected by poorly coordinated roadworks.
 
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Hyebone

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On other local matters, there are some roadworks at Markham Vale which are causing significant issues, especially at peak times. Our 90/90A has been completely messed up and last night it even knocked on to the evening 91 service, with the first two journeys in to town not running. Highlights how even the best organised operation can be badly affected by poorly coordinated roadworks.
Further highlighting why cross-town services aren't a good idea. I agree the 90 needs to be split, but you won't like to hear that the Walton end most likely wouldn't support a 30min frequency...

The 39 appears to work, but only because daytime services have a whole bunch of stack time in town. (evening trips have much less). The 1 and 1a proved poor reliability on the Newbold side due to issues west of town, hence it got split. Even the X17 has issues with bunching up, particularly a problem in the summer with Matlock Bath being packed.

it even knocked on to the evening 91 service, with the first two journeys in to town not running.
The first trip seems to have been cancelled for another reason, as its trip round Walton the first time was only 10 minutes late. The vehicle then missed a whole 90B trip followed by dead-running to Staveley to pick up the return trip, missing Markham Vale entirely. The second trip ran exactly on time by the looks of things.
 

Teapot42

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Further highlighting why cross-town services aren't a good idea. I agree the 90 needs to be split, but you won't like to hear that the Walton end most likely wouldn't support a 30min frequency...
I think a cross town service has a place, and out of the peak times it works fine. What it really needs is a way to split it during the peaks to allow better reliability, or at least ensure common connections are made. The 90 at the Walton / Somersall end can be pretty busy, but unfortunately a lot are ENCTS users so I suspect it would fall in to the category of a busy service that doesn't cover its costs.

I do feel it's also a bit daft that the service up Chatsworth Road basically stops in the early evening, and there is practically nothing on Sunday. The diversions a few months back showed it's viable to operate the 84 via Somersall Lane and Walton Back Lane. I know these are tendered, so hopefully EMCCA can do something with a combined service for Somersall and Holymoorside evenings and Sunday, then cover Walton and Boythorpe separately. The 91 not passing the local supermarket makes it fairly useless to most. If the 90B hadn't been extended to Markham Vale then there would have been running time to do Walton Shops, but now it would be a bit tight.
Even the X17 has issues with bunching up, particularly a problem in the summer with Matlock Bath being packed.
The X17 has massive issues. I really don't know how the TC hasn't raised this as there is rarely a day where something doesn't go wrong. Totally not the fault of the drivers, the service just passes too many pinch points and traffic hotspots. The weekday peaks and all the weekend services really could do with some more time building in for recovery, or a less complex journey pattern so the knock-ons are less pronounced.

Does it justify 2x hourly Sheffield to Matlock? Could one be split in Chesterfield for operational purposes?
The first trip seems to have been cancelled for another reason, as its trip round Walton the first time was only 10 minutes late. The vehicle then missed a whole 90B trip followed by dead-running to Staveley to pick up the return trip, missing Markham Vale entirely. The second trip ran exactly on time by the looks of things.
The problem seemed to stem from delays to the 16:27 90A ex Markham Vale. This bus runs out to Somersall, then back in to town and out again at 18:08 to form the first 91.

There are very often problems, as any minor delay means this in and back out run becomes difficult to do in the time available. Daft thing is the bus sits in Somersall for 8 minutes before becoming the 91, but as drivers are often going to be late leaving Chesterfield runs get dropped.

I'd prefer to drop the outbound part of the 90A (17:32 ex Chesterfield) and keep the 18:08, as otherwise you have a very long gap until the 91 at 19:17. Otherwise, why not re-time that last 90 to 18:17 so the recovery time is in the town centre. It would connect better with the X17 from Sheffield and give gaps of 45 minutes then 1 hour rather than 36 minutes and 69 minutes.

Better still, extend the 17:20 X17 ex-Sheffield out to Somersall pretty much as it used to be. Timings would still work for it to operate the first 91 in to town and you'd not have the daft situation where the peak time departure from Sheffield misses the last bus out to this suburb by 3 minutes, with the next one over an hour later.
 

Llandudno

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I don’t think splitting alternate X17 Matlock - Sheffield journeys at Chesterfield would go down too well with the majority of passengers, I am always surprised how many cross-Chesterfield journeys are made on the X17.

I guess the £3 fare cap, quality brand new buses and for the most part a frequent and reliable service helps!

Also by splitting at Chesterfield Coach Station, then the top end of Chesterfield town centre nearest to Chesterfield College and the railway station would only have 1 bus per hour towards Walton and Matlock.
It would also be an uphill walk from the Coach Station for passengers, mainly elderly looking to catch buses to the hospital.
 

Teapot42

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I guess the £3 fare cap, quality brand new buses and for the most part a frequent and reliable service helps!
True, and also makes me wonder how many other routes would be viable if any potential losses were underwritten by local government. If anything that's the part of the route I'd least think would have benefitted from a frequency increase, but companies these days seem very reluctant to try things for fear of how long if ever it will take to recoup their costs and start making money.
Also by splitting at Chesterfield Coach Station, then the top end of Chesterfield town centre nearest to Chesterfield College and the railway station would only have 1 bus per hour towards Walton and Matlock.
It would also be an uphill walk from the Coach Station for passengers, mainly elderly looking to catch buses to the hospital.
For a very long time that was the case anyway. The extra bus only came about via BSIP funding.

There are options for some overlap and alternatives, such as extending the one ex-Sheffield through to Clay Cross, and extending the one ex-Matlock to the Hospital or even through to Bolsover as an express service. It currently takes 38-41 minutes to cover the 6 miles between Chesterfield and Bolsover, so I'm sure a service that does it in say 25 would be welcome. Unless you are travelling at times where the Wayfarer is valid, (and so can use the Comet) Clay Cross only has slow buses in to Chesterfield, so going through to Sheffield would be painful to most.

I'd even make the argument that the Sheffield to Chesterfield corridor could support three buses hourly, so one from Matlock, one from Clay Cross and one running down Chatsworth Road would give good connectivity to a lot of Chesterfield.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I'd prefer to drop the outbound part of the 90A (17:32 ex Chesterfield) and keep the 18:08, as otherwise you have a very long gap until the 91 at 19:17. Otherwise, why not re-time that last 90 to 18:17 so the recovery time is in the town centre. It would connect better with the X17 from Sheffield and give gaps of 45 minutes then 1 hour rather than 36 minutes and 69 minutes.
And looks like the 18:08 (and associated 18:30 91) is cancelled again tonight, meaning my wife is stranded in town for over an hour. This really isn't good enough - the bus passed here late, so there would have been some knock-on to other services, but to drop the last regular service out of town (and the first of a tendered service) really isn't good enough when it happens regularly.
 
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py_megapixel

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If the traffic commissioner registrations are to be believed, it is now 2 weeks until the service on route 7 is cut by some indeterminate amount and the 83/86 routes disappear altogether. There is still no public-facing information on either the Stagecoach or TSY websites about any planned changes (not even the usual "this service will be changing, please check back later for timetables").

Is this is an indication that arrangements have been made to continue the services after all and there will be no effect on passengers? I'm not optimistic, but I hope this turns out to be the case.
 

Teapot42

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That's contrary to what I've seen and heard, but I'll respect your insight here.
Strictly speaking this looks correct - most seem to be able to get back to the depot under their own steam if something goes wrong. It doesn't seem uncommon for ones to come off mid-diagram and not come back out. Indeed there are currently 5 not in service today and yesterday had an E200 on a 43 diagram which runs on to a peak X17, plus a knackered Solo on the 90.

Wasn't Stonegravels supposed to be getting a loan E400EV to cover for ones off for rework?

What level of spares was originally allowed for compared to the current service level? Once these issues are resolved, are there actually enough electrics to allow the two remaining diesel E400s to be moved on, or will there always be a need for a handful as cover?

On a different subject, I've read elsewhere the SYMCA have had a change of plans regarding service permits and are likely to franchise the Sheffield to Barnsley part of the X17. Does anyone know if this is correct? Losing the direct Chesterfield to Meadowhall link would be (another) unfortunate impact of franchising if correct.
 

florence

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On a different subject, I've read elsewhere the SYMCA have had a change of plans regarding service permits and are likely to franchise the Sheffield to Barnsley part of the X17. Does anyone know if this is correct? Losing the direct Chesterfield to Meadowhall link would be (another) unfortunate impact of franchising if correct.

I wonder how feasible making the route Meadowhall-Wirksworth only would be to allow it to operate under a service permit? That should only require one split of registration - at Chesterfield - which might mean the SY mileage is reduced enough to allow that to continue.
 

Teapot42

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I wonder how feasible making the route Meadowhall-Wirksworth only would be to allow it to operate under a service permit? That should only require one split of registration - at Chesterfield - which might mean the SY mileage is reduced enough to allow that to continue.
Looks fairly trivial actually. Meadowhall to Barnsley is roughly half an hour each way, so you'd be able to turn back at Meadowhall with little if any impact on the timetable.

I guess it depends how awkward SYMCA want to be. You could argue that anything beyond Sheffield Interchange is taking revenue from franchised services. I've not heard anything about the 271/2 - if they are going to limit the mileage within SY of a permit service, then what's to say they won't decide to fully franchise a service that - at least in part - is run from within the franchise area.
 

ALEMASTER

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Looks fairly trivial actually. Meadowhall to Barnsley is roughly half an hour each way, so you'd be able to turn back at Meadowhall with little if any impact on the timetable.

I guess it depends how awkward SYMCA want to be. You could argue that anything beyond Sheffield Interchange is taking revenue from franchised services. I've not heard anything about the 271/2 - if they are going to limit the mileage within SY of a permit service, then what's to say they won't decide to fully franchise a service that - at least in part - is run from within the franchise area.
I really don't believe SYMCA should be controlling the likes of the 65, 257 or 272 - they should be serving residents of Derbyshire villages but earning extra revenue bringing day trippers and tourists from over the border in Sheffield. These should be controlled by the East Midlands Mayor if franchised.

The X17 is a little more complicated in that the Sheffield to Barnsley section is supported by SYMCA. However im mot sure there is much cross city travel in Sheffield on those trips so it would ne acceptable to have a franchised Moorfoot to Barnsley service and cut the existing X17 to Sheffield to Wirksworth, which being a Derbyshire bus i don't believe should be a South yorkshire franchised service.
 

Teapot42

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I really don't believe SYMCA should be controlling the likes of the 65, 257 or 272 - they should be serving residents of Derbyshire villages but earning extra revenue bringing day trippers and tourists from over the border in Sheffield. These should be controlled by the East Midlands Mayor if franchised.
The 65 and 257 I'd definitely agree serve Derbyshire primarily, although there is a section of the 257 that is the only bus which serves some areas of Sheffield.

The 218 I'd argue is more towards Sheffield in terms of passenger numbers, but does have some utility within Derbyshire, and I believe is part funded there.

The 272 is more of a difficult one to place. (And not that relevant to this thread!) It would be difficult to operate as now if it was run as a permit service, especially if First don't get the Olive Grove franchise. Are there any cases elsewhere of a service being half franchised and half run via a permit?

The X17 is a little more complicated in that the Sheffield to Barnsley section is supported by SYMCA. However im mot sure there is much cross city travel in Sheffield on those trips so it would ne acceptable to have a franchised Moorfoot to Barnsley service and cut the existing X17 to Sheffield to Wirksworth, which being a Derbyshire bus i don't believe should be a South yorkshire franchised service.
Are you sure of that? The registrations suggest the Sheffield to Barnsley section is not supported.

The impact of splitting the service like this will depend whether cross border fares are available. I can see it being just like when SYMCA took over the trams and Derbyshire residents lost use of them (via Stagecoach tickets) - we'll most likely also lose the inter-Sheffield connections we get currently on Stagecoach at least. Maybe the overall impact will be small, but it's going to push more away from public transport if journeys they have been doing for years suddenly become a lot more expensive.

There was acknowledgement of things like this many years ago when Chesterfield (and others) joined SYMCA, only for the Derbyshire Tories to force us out. Hopefully the synergies between the areas will be recognised and provisions made.
 

ALEMASTER

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The 65 and 257 I'd definitely agree serve Derbyshire primarily, although there is a section of the 257 that is the only bus which serves some areas of Sheffield.

The 218 I'd argue is more towards Sheffield in terms of passenger numbers, but does have some utility within Derbyshire, and I believe is part funded there.

The 272 is more of a difficult one to place. (And not that relevant to this thread!) It would be difficult to operate as now if it was run as a permit service, especially if First don't get the Olive Grove franchise. Are there any cases elsewhere of a service being half franchised and half run via a permit?


Are you sure of that? The registrations suggest the Sheffield to Barnsley section is not supported.

The impact of splitting the service like this will depend whether cross border fares are available. I can see it being just like when SYMCA took over the trams and Derbyshire residents lost use of them (via Stagecoach tickets) - we'll most likely also lose the inter-Sheffield connections we get currently on Stagecoach at least. Maybe the overall impact will be small, but it's going to push more away from public transport if journeys they have been doing for years suddenly become a lot more expensive.

There was acknowledgement of things like this many years ago when Chesterfield (and others) joined SYMCA, only for the Derbyshire Tories to force us out. Hopefully the synergies between the areas will be recognised and provisions made.
The X17 to Barnsley isn't tendered but I believe did get start up support. Either way it's very much a South yorkshire service, in contrast to the rest of the route which is all about Chesterfield, Matlock and Wirksworth.

Within Sheffield the 272 is pretty much a duplicate of the 81 as far as Dore Moor, it carries a lot of day trippers from Sheffield into Derbyshire but I'd argue serving the villages down the valley from Hathersage to Castleton is an important role that the South Yorkshire Mayor has no business specifying.

The 218 is a funny one as it's been adapted to be a jack of all trades. It makes its money taking tourists to Chatsworth House and Bakewell whilst locally us a key link between Baslow and Bakewell, to a lesser extent also Lady Manners School. However its also the only bus serving parts of Sharrow and is also a key link for Totley.
 

Teapot42

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The X17 to Barnsley isn't tendered but I believe did get start up support. Either way it's very much a South yorkshire service, in contrast to the rest of the route which is all about Chesterfield, Matlock and Wirksworth.
As I say, I'd argue that the loss of the Chesterfield to Meadowhall link could be an issue, moreso if the fares aren't available. But even within South Yorkshire it might be desirable to maintain the link as far as Meadowhead.

Again, could a joint service work? The Chesterfield to Sheffield corridor could IMO support a more intensive service and it benefits both communities. Of course, if they do lose the Barnsley section then Stagecoach may decide to redeploy the vehicles to increase that core frequency.
Within Sheffield the 272 is pretty much a duplicate of the 81 as far as Dore Moor, it carries a lot of day trippers from Sheffield into Derbyshire but I'd argue serving the villages down the valley from Hathersage to Castleton is an important role that the South Yorkshire Mayor has no business specifying.
My question is more how would it be operated? When you can't guarantee who is going to control the depot it's hard to run it as a commercial service. Would SYMCA give up any stake in it and hope High Peak pick it up completely? The Evening and Sunday service is supported by SYMCA, so would that be franchised? Will the be able to support services that aren't franchised come to that?
The 218 is a funny one as it's been adapted to be a jack of all trades. It makes its money taking tourists to Chatsworth House and Bakewell whilst locally us a key link between Baslow and Bakewell, to a lesser extent also Lady Manners School. However its also the only bus serving parts of Sharrow and is also a key link for Totley.
It's arguable the 170 now performs the same function between Baslow and Bakewell. Frequency is not as high currently, but that could well change. Out of them all it's the best candidate in terms of utility to be a franchised service. That said, if someone like High Peak or Stagecoach decided to run strategic links from Whaley Bridge and Buxton say to Chatsworth then they could cannibalise a lot of the Chatsworth traffic that originates from Manchester and runs through Sheffield, which could make it less viable. EMCCA might prefer to keep that traffic within Derbyshire more than it currently is.
 

ALEMASTER

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As I say, I'd argue that the loss of the Chesterfield to Meadowhall link could be an issue, moreso if the fares aren't available. But even within South Yorkshire it might be desirable to maintain the link as far as Meadowhead.

Again, could a joint service work? The Chesterfield to Sheffield corridor could IMO support a more intensive service and it benefits both communities. Of course, if they do lose the Barnsley section then Stagecoach may decide to redeploy the vehicles to increase that core frequency.

My question is more how would it be operated? When you can't guarantee who is going to control the depot it's hard to run it as a commercial service. Would SYMCA give up any stake in it and hope High Peak pick it up completely? The Evening and Sunday service is supported by SYMCA, so would that be franchised? Will the be able to support services that aren't franchised come to that?

It's arguable the 170 now performs the same function between Baslow and Bakewell. Frequency is not as high currently, but that could well change. Out of them all it's the best candidate in terms of utility to be a franchised service. That said, if someone like High Peak or Stagecoach decided to run strategic links from Whaley Bridge and Buxton say to Chatsworth then they could cannibalise a lot of the Chatsworth traffic that originates from Manchester and runs through Sheffield, which could make it less viable. EMCCA might prefer to keep that traffic within Derbyshire more than it currently is.
I imagine High Peak would happily take over the 272!

An improved 170 could indeed take over the local role of the 218 in Derbyshire should SYMCA make a mess of it! However the 218 is every half hour in the daytime, runs 7 days a week and has an evening service. I'd agree it is a service with a Sheffield bias, although currently being operated by TM Travel it's not a depot that's going to be a franchise location so TM could be hoping to develop their Derbyshire business going forward.

Do many use the X17 Chesterfield to Meadowhall? Northern run fast, direct trains every hour. Whenever I've used it I've not noticed many that got on before Moorfoot still on after Sheffield Interchange.

Ticketing will be an interesting one. South Yorkshire TravelMaster and Derbyshire Wayfarer tickets exist and both are run by the same ticketing company so it would be feasible to develop the range to include tickets that include areas in both counties.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

As I say, I'd argue that the loss of the Chesterfield to Meadowhall link could be an issue, moreso if the fares aren't available. But even within South Yorkshire it might be desirable to maintain the link as far as Meadowhead.

Again, could a joint service work? The Chesterfield to Sheffield corridor could IMO support a more intensive service and it benefits both communities. Of course, if they do lose the Barnsley section then Stagecoach may decide to redeploy the vehicles to increase that core frequency.

My question is more how would it be operated? When you can't guarantee who is going to control the depot it's hard to run it as a commercial service. Would SYMCA give up any stake in it and hope High Peak pick it up completely? The Evening and Sunday service is supported by SYMCA, so would that be franchised? Will the be able to support services that aren't franchised come to that?

It's arguable the 170 now performs the same function between Baslow and Bakewell. Frequency is not as high currently, but that could well change. Out of them all it's the best candidate in terms of utility to be a franchised service. That said, if someone like High Peak or Stagecoach decided to run strategic links from Whaley Bridge and Buxton say to Chatsworth then they could cannibalise a lot of the Chatsworth traffic that originates from Manchester and runs through Sheffield, which could make it less viable. EMCCA might prefer to keep that traffic within Derbyshire more than it currently is.
I thought the evening 272 was supported by Derbyshire County Council (now East Midlands Mayor) rather than SYMCA?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

If the traffic commissioner registrations are to be believed, it is now 2 weeks until the service on route 7 is cut by some indeterminate amount and the 83/86 routes disappear altogether. There is still no public-facing information on either the Stagecoach or TSY websites about any planned changes (not even the usual "this service will be changing, please check back later for timetables").

Is this is an indication that arrangements have been made to continue the services after all and there will be no effect on passengers? I'm not optimistic, but I hope this turns out to be the case.
A new registration has appeared for the 83 and 86. It appears the registrations seen were purely an administrative exercise with those two services moving onto new reg numbers (existing one cancelled, new ones created).

There are still changes showing as registered for the 1 and 7 with no new timetables appearing, I wonder if there is an error with the date (First's changes are from 3 May) or if the changes are actually really subtle!
 
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Teapot42

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@Teapot42 to reply in an on-topic thread: The E400EVs are getting towed back almost daily.
80180 was towed in tonight. 80150 also returned to the depot part-way through the day with a few peak journeys missed and a Yutong taking over in the evening.

I passed a convoy of U11Ds in Stagecoach blue heading south from Castleford this morning. I wonder who the lucky recipient is?
 

Trainman40083

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80180 was towed in tonight. 80150 also returned to the depot part-way through the day with a few peak journeys missed and a Yutong taking over in the evening.

I passed a convoy of U11Ds in Stagecoach blue heading south from Castleford this morning. I wonder who the lucky recipient is?
I've only ridden on Yutong single deckers.. Are the U11Ds good? I'm thinking they may be heading to Stagecoach South.
 

Teapot42

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Are issues starting to creep back in with the E400EVs? I've noticed of late it's not been uncommon to have at least one Yutong on the X17, and the peak 07:30 departure from Chesterfield to Sheffield was one this morning. Already full leaving the town centre which isn't ideal.
 

py_megapixel

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Stumbled across a timetable for new Stagecoach service M35 today:

This appears to just be Stagecoach winning a contract that was previously run by Cawthorne's Travel:

A couple of questions:

1. What is the point of this route? I wasn't previously aware of it, and perhaps I am missing something, but I can't see what significant link it provides that isn't already better served by other corridors. Is Thornbridge Business Park big enough that employee traffic from Parson Cross and Ecclesfield merits an all-day service?

2. Why does Stagecoach's timetable do everything half an hour earlier than Cawthorne's? The frequency is unchanged, with just an extra evening journey added in to make it finish a bit later, so was there some operational disadvantage to just keeping the daytime timetable the same?
 

Teapot42

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Not that I know the area well, but it strikes me this ties some areas together quite well. North of Ecclesfield it covers a large industrial area with a variety of businesses. It also links some places without other buses, and serves the large Asda and a school in Parson Cross. I'd say it's notable that the new Stagecoach version runs a full timetable on Saturday which must mean the demand is there.

It also looks like the Cawthornes version had breaks for school runs, which the Stagecoach one doesn't.
 

Teapot42

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The first day of significant rain in Chesterfield seems to have coincided with several E400EVs having issues.

80146 conked out shortly after joining the A61 at Whittington Moor this morning. Blocked one lane for around an hour, and one minor incident where a car appeared to clip the bus with their mirror. Pax rescued by the late running 07:55 departure from the Coach Station.

80147 went straight to the depot after completing the 14:15 77 from Worksop and the diagram appears unfilled.

80153 went straight to the depot after completing the 14:04 25 from New Whittington and the diagram appears unfilled.

80176 went in to the depot off the 12:54 50A to Sheffield, with 80175 taking over.

I can't believe it's rain related as these buses have been here long enough to have seen plenty of weather, but I did also notice a few diesels out on Sunday when I'd expect the service to be all electric.

Also noticed that Matt Kitchin is no longer with Stagecoach, having moved back to Go Ahead. Is it common for division MDs to only hang around a few years, or has Stagecoach Yorkshire had more churn than normal?
 

mk1979

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1. What is the point of this route? I wasn't previously aware of it, and perhaps I am missing something, but I can't see what significant link it provides that isn't already better served by other corridors. Is Thornbridge Business Park big enough that employee traffic from Parson Cross and Ecclesfield merits an all-day service?

2. Why does Stagecoach's timetable do everything half an hour earlier than Cawthorne's? The frequency is unchanged, with just an extra evening journey added in to make it finish a bit later, so was there some operational disadvantage to just keeping the daytime timetable the same?
As Teapot42 says, it provides links across North Sheffield to a number of employment areas. The M35 is a SYMCA tender who I think specified the timetable on this, I was at Stagecoach when they bid for it and I don't think we altered the timetable from what was specified.
Also noticed that Matt Kitchin is no longer with Stagecoach, having moved back to Go Ahead. Is it common for division MDs to only hang around a few years, or has Stagecoach Yorkshire had more churn than normal?
I was the second longest serving MD of Stagecoach Yorkshire at 4 years and 3 months :D

I really enjoyed my time at Stagecoach Yorkshire, it was by far the best job I've had to date. Its a brilliant team there and we achieved a lot including investment in 100 new vehicles, major investment in several depots, expansion of the network and really significant improvements in performance. There's also further good news to come with more vehicle and depot investment and further expansion.

Earlier this year I got the opportunity to return to Go-Ahead after a decade away in a new business which has expanded and diversified significantly over the past few years which is a new challenge for me with a new team at East Yorkshire. The next few years are going to be really interesting with plenty in the pipeline already so watch this space.
 

ventura56

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Stumbled across a timetable for new Stagecoach service M35 today:

This appears to just be Stagecoach winning a contract that was previously run by Cawthorne's Travel:

A couple of questions:

1. What is the point of this route? I wasn't previously aware of it, and perhaps I am missing something, but I can't see what significant link it provides that isn't already better served by other corridors. Is Thornbridge Business Park big enough that employee traffic from Parson Cross and Ecclesfield merits an all-day service?

2. Why does Stagecoach's timetable do everything half an hour earlier than Cawthorne's? The frequency is unchanged, with just an extra evening journey added in to make it finish a bit later, so was there some operational disadvantage to just keeping the daytime timetable the same?
Connects local estates and large business parks across northern Sheffield and given the fact it's seen it's span of operation increased, with the former gaps now removed, I'd assume it's doing well, otherwise wouldn't have been retendered? Probably didn't help with the fact that Cawthornes were running it and on multiple occasions either had no destination display, or it was incorrectly displaying the former route number, 35A.
 

Ballyheigue

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Stumbled across a timetable for new Stagecoach service M35 today:

This appears to just be Stagecoach winning a contract that was previously run by Cawthorne's Travel:

A couple of questions:

1. What is the point of this route? I wasn't previously aware of it, and perhaps I am missing something, but I can't see what significant link it provides that isn't already better served by other corridors. Is Thornbridge Business Park big enough that employee traffic from Parson Cross and Ecclesfield merits an all-day service?

2. Why does Stagecoach's timetable do everything half an hour earlier than Cawthorne's? The frequency is unchanged, with just an extra evening journey added in to make it finish a bit later, so was there some operational disadvantage to just keeping the daytime timetable the same?
The major Northern distribution depot for Marks and Spencer is based on Thorncliffe Industrial Estate, I'd say that's a big enough reason to justify this bus.
 

woodhouse122

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i remeber years ago when Stagecoach ran the 35a shuttle from Chapeltown to the thorncliffe estate ,then Yorkshire Tiger ran the service until they pulleed out of south yorkshire ,then powells and Cawthorne;s running the route and now stagecoach have the route back for now
 

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py_megapixel

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Thanks everyone who has provided input on why this route exists. I think it's rather good that such a route is still hanging on, and indeed being improved.

i remeber years ago when Stagecoach ran the 35a shuttle from Chapeltown to the thorncliffe estate ,then Yorkshire Tiger ran the service until they pulleed out of south yorkshire ,then powells and Cawthorne;s running the route and now stagecoach have the route back for now
Presumably the 35A was numbered as such to indicate a variant of a 35 - what was the 35?

Also do you happen to know the date of that photo! "Every 20 minutes" for a relatively minor orbital route, and 50p single fares, would both be highly unusual nowadays!
 

woodhouse122

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9 Aug 2011
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Thanks everyone who has provided input on why this route exists. I think it's rather good that such a route is still hanging on, and indeed being improved.


Presumably the 35A was numbered as such to indicate a variant of a 35 - what was the 35?

Also do you happen to know the date of that photo! "Every 20 minutes" for a relatively minor orbital route, and 50p single fares, would both be highly unusual nowadays!
i snapped that pic in Oct 2011
 

Transport101

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Recents transfers at Eccelsfield
19454 & 19456 Ecclesfield - Holbrook
27233 & 27237 Barnsley - Eccelsfield
36188 Rawmarsh - Eccelsfield
36991 Eccelsfield - Chesterfield
*I think the tridents going to Holbrook and e300s going Ecclesfield are temporary but I’m not sure on that*
 

AWK

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6 Jan 2009
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Thanks everyone who has provided input on why this route exists. I think it's rather good that such a route is still hanging on, and indeed being improved.


Presumably the 35A was numbered as such to indicate a variant of a 35 - what was the 35?

Also do you happen to know the date of that photo! "Every 20 minutes" for a relatively minor orbital route, and 50p single fares, would both be highly unusual nowadays!
35a is the junction on the M1 motorway the service runs around - the initial purpose of the 35a was to link the railway station/bus interchange facilities at Chapeltown with the nearby industrial estates alongside the motorway junction, hence gaining the 35a number. It is only recently that the service has been substantially extended beyond Chapeltown to Ecclesfield and Parson Cross to provide better employment links to those industrial estates at which stage it was renumbered to M35 (harking back to the old SYPTE days of "minibus" routes being prefixed with an M) - even though it's not operated with Minibuses!
 
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Teapot42

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12 Jan 2022
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Changes are coming in Chesterfield from October 25th.

I'm not surprised the 5/38 have been cut - it was down to a poverty service anyway, and unsurprisingly a service that wasn't much use wasn't much used.

I'm not sure how re-routing the 15 to serve the old 5 route is going to work. Not long ago the 5 was every 30 minutes with a Sunday service. The 15 is currently roughly every 2h05 with little slack, so will need the frequency reducing to accommodate the extra mileage, unless it's interworked somehow.

Rerouting the 16 to serve Green Farm was something I suggested a while ago as the logical option, although again it's not as frequent as it really needs to be.

I'm not sure how re-routing the 84 around the back of Brampton is going to work - it's already an odd frequency so, like the 15, is it going to be reduced further? Also reducing the frequency further on Chatsworth Road.

Odd how EMCCA can find money for services elsewhere, but not here.

As for the 90, I'm just pleased it's not been cut further. If the current timetable is followed though there will be very little recovery time so we are likely to go back to the days of consistent late running. At least the extension was fairly slackly timed with a bit more recovery as well.

Disappointing to see the 170 cut further, especially as I occasionally use the earlier ones. A shame they couldn't at least start part-way to provide an early morning way to get in to town from this side of Chesterfield.

Frequency cuts elsewhere as well - I wonder if there will even be enough services to keep the EV fleet busy, and presumably the remaining E400s and many of the E200 will disappear.
 

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