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Caledonian Sleeper

norbitonflyer

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Indeed. I've only ever used the sleeper once, and even on that singular occasion I was almost an hour late into Birmingham Intl. I get the feeling that either I am genuinely obscenely unlucky, or the rail industry is heavily massaging its figures, Cally included.
I've lost count of how many tiems I've used the Caledonian sleeper - at least 25 - and have never been delayed by as much as half an hour. All routes except Aberdeen.

Just had an email from them for my next trip, advising me of a later departure time from Glasgow than originally scheduled, presumably because we will be going via the WCML and not the ECML as originally planned - so no rare track in North London for me, sadly.
 
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JamieL

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It will be interesting to read the Caley website updates after 2 today.
Why is this? Are you expecting significant disruption? The CS website currently says that the London to Edinburgh portion is cancelled but that "all other services this evening are running as scheduled".
 
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800002

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Just the down Lowlander (Edinburgh only) i think is cancelled.
14 hours worth of ticket acceptance with LNER is offered, however.
(Can't recall seeing that before, but I'm not often affected in that way)

Service Update Thursday 13th August
London Euston to Edinburgh
We are very sorry to advise that tonight’s service from London Euston to Edinburgh has been cancelled.

This is due to an ongoing incident from last night which has displaced our train.

You can travel on the following LNER services from Kings Cross to Edinburgh Waverley at no additional cost:

Today (13/8): 11:30, 12:03, 13:03, 13:30, 14:03, 15:03, 16:00, 17:03, 17:30, 18:00, 18:30 &1900
Tomorrow (14/8): 06:30, 07:03, 07:30, 08:03, 08:30, 09:03, 09:30, 10:30 &11:03.
 

Tetragon213

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Isn't the slackness built in in case the trains have to divert due to planned engineering works, which usually occurs over night. Without the slackness built in, you would have to almost have a daily timetable if you were looking for accuracy.
Is it not also the case that the Cally is pathed slower, so as not to shake the passengers to bits overnight?
 

Falcon1200

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It's worse: last night's southbound Aberdeen and Fort William portions were caped at Edinburgh

Technically those trains cannot be cancelled at Edinburgh as they terminate there anyway! Then of course forming part of 1M16 to Euston. 1M16 is shown starting from Edinburgh, so formed by the Aberdeen and Fort William portions only.
 

Tormod

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Why is this? Are you expecting significant disruption? The CS website currently says that the London to Edinburgh portion is cancelled but that "all other services this evening are running as scheduled".
I was. So glad that it has turned out otherwise.
 

BenBracken

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I’ve seen a video recently of a 73 running round a two coach sleeper at Fort William. How would that work? One sleeper coach and the restaurant coach? No seated options? Does make you worry about the viability of that route! How are loadings generally?
 

Twingo37175

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I’ve seen a video recently of a 73 running round a two coach sleeper at Fort William. How would that work? One sleeper coach and the restaurant coach? No seated options? Does make you worry about the viability of that route! How are loadings generally?
That would have been just the day coaches, I believe from the last couple of weeks. Normal (ex-Euston) service terminated at Edinburgh (coaching or brake issues as I recall), but the day coaches sent onwards as normal to Fort Bill.
 

Bill57p9

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I’ve seen a video recently of a 73 running round a two coach sleeper at Fort William. How would that work? One sleeper coach and the restaurant coach? No seated options? Does make you worry about the viability of that route! How are loadings generally?
Thursday 8 August. As @Twingo37175 suggests above, the Highlander (all portions) terminated/started in Edinburgh that morning/evening. The 2 day coaches (seated plus lounge) ran between Edinburgh and Fort William.

Unsure about the northbound service however sleeper passengers from Fort William were bussed to Edinburgh whilst seated passengers and those from intermediate stations took the train.
It certainly isn't the usual plan, and at least it wasn't double headed!
 

VT 390

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I’ve seen a video recently of a 73 running round a two coach sleeper at Fort William. How would that work? One sleeper coach and the restaurant coach? No seated options? Does make you worry about the viability of that route! How are loadings generally?
Regarding general passenger loadings generally, on the Fort William route in the summer they easily sell all 4 carriages worth of rooms (14 classic rooms, 18 club rooms, 2 double rooms, 2 accessible rooms).

In the winter it can be more varied, I have been on services where only around half the rooms were occupied but also on services that are fully booked.

In my experience the seats are mostly used by day passengers to/from stations Edinburgh to Fort William with only a few switching carriages at Edinburgh (although I have only done the seats to Fort William a few times).
 

JamieL

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Regarding general passenger loadings generally, on the Fort William route in the summer they easily sell all 4 carriages worth of rooms (14 classic rooms, 18 club rooms, 2 double rooms, 2 accessible rooms).
In the winter it can be more varied, I have been on services where only around half the rooms were occupied but also on services that are fully booked.
In my experience the seats are mostly used by day passengers to/from stations Edinburgh to Fort William with only a few switching carriages at Edinburgh (although I have only done the seats to Fort William a few times).
I concur that it is often a sell-out - multiple times in the Summer when I try to book at reasonably short notice, there is no availability especially on the main commuting days (Southbound Sunday, Monday and northbound on Thursday). Annoyingly in some periods in Winter the service to FW does not run everyday (see January 2027 for example).
 

Mldaureol

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1S25 the Highlander sleeper appears to have failed and is being terminated at Milton Keynes.
It appears to be heading back to Euston, as the Loco has just ran around the train to head back southbound.
 

fgwrich

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1S25 the Highlander sleeper appears to have failed and is being terminated at Milton Keynes.
It appears to be heading back to Euston, as the Loco has just ran around the train to head back southbound.
That’s a little concerning, I can’t remember how it goes but isn’t that the loco which in turn runs the southbound highland back?

(I’m on the Southbound highlander at the moment)
 

GordonT

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That’s a little concerning, I can’t remember how it goes but isn’t that the loco which in turn runs the southbound highland back?

(I’m on the Southbound highlander at the moment)
Do you mean the loco's driver?
 

fgwrich

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Do you mean the loco's driver?
No, it’s somewhat late so I’ve forgotten how the switch around takes place. Whether the northbound highlander returns south with the highlander or goes to the Klondike Road, or if it takes the ECS of the Edinburgh lowlander portion back to Polmadie etc.

Sadly the Mk5s ride quality is also leaving a lot to be desired for tonight - though oddly, in the sleeper coach itself it has been fine. In the lounge car it’s horrendous. I will be taking the number down in the morning and reporting that back to CS / Alstom!

Cancel, of course I’ve just realised it’s tomorrow night that would be affected if the northbound is cancelled as our 92 should be here already. And the southbound departs before the northbound arrives.
 
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GordonT

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Sadly the Mk5s ride quality is also leaving a lot to be desired for tonight - though oddly, in the sleeper coach itself it has been fine. In the lounge car it’s horrendous. I will be taking the number down in the morning and reporting that back to CS / Alstom!
And sadly 1M11 the southbound Lowlander has been terminated at Carstairs presumed to be for set balancing purposes. Not one of CS's better nights.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

1S25 the Highlander sleeper appears to have failed and is being terminated at Milton Keynes.
It appears to be heading back to Euston, as the Loco has just ran around the train to head back southbound.
An AWS fault on 92038 according to an inside source on another channel.
 
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Bill57p9

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And sadly 1M11 the southbound Lowlander has been terminated at Carstairs presumed to be for set balancing purposes. Not one of CS's better nights.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
It would appear that the southbound Lowlander was sent to Edinburgh, offloaded and then the stock used to form the northbound Highlander portions, presumably to ensure stock is available tonight.
 

GordonT

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It would appear that the southbound Lowlander was sent to Edinburgh, offloaded and then the stock used to form the northbound Highlander portions, presumably to ensure stock is available tonight.
Indeed.

On occasions when this type of stock balancing/operational need scenario arises are the unfortunate passengers informed of the unvarnished truth i.e. "There's absolutely nothing wrong with this train but unfortunately you'll be travelling on a daytime train instead and can claim your money back. This is to make things work for everyone tomorrow and avoids inconveniencing a greater number of passengers".

Or are they more economical with the truth along the lines of "We are sorry for this significant inconvenience which arises from a technical problem within our operation tonight."

Or something else?
 

liamf656

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It's a shame they couldn't run it to London then send it back to Edinburgh ECS during the day so that southbound pax stayed unaffected, but I suppose it would have been an option ruled out
 

Durradan

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It would appear that the southbound Lowlander was sent to Edinburgh, offloaded and then the stock used to form the northbound Highlander portions, presumably to ensure stock is available tonight.
Presumably related to this, the Aberdeen portion has arrived as just two carriages (seated + buffet car?). Unless some sleeper carriages appear later, I assume tonight that'll mean everyone's going seated until they get down to Edinburgh?
 

50032

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It's a shame they couldn't run it to London then send it back to Edinburgh ECS during the day so that southbound pax stayed unaffected, but I suppose it would have been an option ruled out
There would be no driver for 1M11 from Preston, as they were probably tied up with returning the failed train from Milton Keynes to Euston.
 

InvHst

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Presumably related to this, the Aberdeen portion has arrived as just two carriages (seated + buffet car?). Unless some sleeper carriages appear later, I assume tonight that'll mean everyone's going seated until they get down to Edinburgh?
Em no you'll find the cabin passengers will be transported to Edinburgh
 

Mag_seven

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It's only a question of time before the current poor performance of CS attracts the attention of the Scottish Government / MSPs
 

marshlinker

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It's only a question of time before the current poor performance of CS attracts the attention of the Scottish Government / MSPs
Surely as the Caledonian Sleeper is a Brand operated by Scottish Rail Holdings a company wholly owned by the Scottish Government they should already be aware?
 

JonathanH

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It's only a question of time before the current poor performance of CS attracts the attention of the Scottish Government / MSPs
It seems a lack of alternative options when something goes wrong, and a question about who would pay for those alternative options.

Things like AWS faults or train breakdowns happen, but not being able to source a spare locomotive, spare driver, or similar mean two trains cancelled. However, this is a service where costs need to be managed given the shortfall of revenue against costs. Having a spare driver at Preston, or a spare locomotive at Milton Keynes comes at a cost, which just adds to the subsidy requirement.

Is there genuinely a way to avoid these operational challenges?
 

styles

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It's only a question of time before the current poor performance of CS attracts the attention of the Scottish Government / MSPs
The government can't be oblivious to this already, surely.

In fact I'd have thought some Scottish MPs would've been using it for 'commuting' to Westminster.
 

35B

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The government can't be oblivious to this already, surely.

In fact I'd have thought some Scottish MPs would've been using it for 'commuting' to Westminster.
Not many Labour MPs to influence Healey; SNP MPs don't tend to have the same status within the SNP as MSPs, so be interesting to know how much influence they have when complaining to Holyrood
 

SuspectUsual

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Is there genuinely a way to avoid these operational challenges?

I'm 99.9% certain there have been plenty of ECS daytime moves up and down the WCML in the past, so not sure what has changed to mean that couldn't have happened this week.
 

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