Lewes derailment - Thursday 13th August

[greatkingrat]

The ladder is for climbing down from a (right way up) train, not for climbing out of a train on its side.

 

[Amos390]

Could the ladder not still be used for that purpose though, it would probably work even if it wasn’t what it was originally there for?

 

[Crossover]

Does anyone know if the rescue locos are just taking the single lead unit or the coach from the 2nd unit that didn’t derail too?

I don’t know for sure but I would imagine just the one complete unit. Inter-unit connections would be different again plus that coupling will have taken some brunt with it being the connection between the upright and horizontal coach

 

[Amos390]

Just seen 5Z55 (as 47739 dragging the 387 currently) is in Brighton now and 0Z56 (47727) is just arriving as well, presuming now 47727 will take the 387 as far as Haywards Heath and 47739 will run 0Z57, when it arrives in Haywards Heath will it double head with 47727 then as both are scheduled into P3?

Edit: also just noticed 0Z57 overtakes 5Z55 at Preston Park, meaning it will be in platform at Haywards when 5Z55 arrives

 

[mrl3bon]

I don’t know for sure but I would imagine just the one complete unit. Inter-unit connections would be different again plus that coupling will have taken some brunt with it being the connection between the upright and horizontal coach

A photo from Brighton seen on another group confirms it is just the single unit

 

[35B]

Is it possible the distortion couid be due to a bridge strike?

From maps, it looks like a track rather than a road so unlikely to get anything tall enough. The lack of any mention of a bridge strike in either coverage to now or the RAIB statement suggests that it’s not a factor

 

[Snow1964]

Image from BBC said to be 1 hour before the incident. That would explain the previous train that went over this with a big jolt. (Image source: RAIB)

The low wall and railing clearly visible on the left show some sort of underbridge.

But the kink is not on the bridge, it is nearer, where there appears to be a longer than necessary gap in the third rail, and those white dumpy bags. That suggests location has been used for track access.

I don't think it appropriate to determine reason, but I do wonder if whoever moved the bags carelessly swung them into the track or ballast, creating a ballast shoulder weak spot or even making an initially imperceptible sideways kink in the track.

There was the footbridge near Woking, which had clearly been damaged by machinery, but the teams on the ground had kept it quiet.

But if I was RAIB and saw that (and this Photo is in their report, so they clearly think its relevant), I would be very interested in what previously happened where that kink now is..

 

[zwk500]

I don't think it appropriate to speculate, but I do wonder ...

"I don't think it's appropriate to speculate, but [immediately speculates]"

 

[king_walnut]

The ladder is for climbing down from a (right way up) train, not for climbing out of a train on its side.

The ladder is there to be used for whatever it's possible to use it for. One of the pictures from the scene showed it being used to successfully evacuate people from a sideways train carriage.

 

[edwin_m]

Doesn’t every unit carry a ladder for this purpose? Some definitely have it visible to the public, am assuming others do but in a cupboard somewhere.

There is only one ladder per unit, so if your coach is on its side it's pot luck whether you have access to it.

 

[Class455]

424304 from 387304 is now sitting in Cooksbridge Station by itself

 

[altnabreac hq]

Good morning
Have they released any information as to why the train left the rails yet?

 

[brightonbususe]

Good morning
Have they released any information as to why the train left the rails yet?

What is known already is in this thread already.

 

[altnabreac hq]

What is known already is in this thread already.

Thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2026 ==

How would this have happened to the track please?

I know very little about tracks and would like to know and try and understand as a novice.

 

[35B]

How would this of happed to the track please, i know very little about tracks and would like to know and try and understand as a novice.

Railway tracks are held in tension to be firm enough for trains to run on safely. Metal expands when it is hot. That expansion is allowed for in the way that tracks are laid and maintained. However, if the expansion goes beyond what is allowed for, the metal may bend (“buckle”) and go out of shape. This has caused derailments in the past.

That is one suggestion for the cause of this derailment. Another, also pointed to by the RAIB statement, is that the earthworks under the train moved, meaning the line was no longer smooth. This may have been caused by drying out of the material that the embankment was made from, and it’s also been observed that the derailment site was next to a bridge - which opens the possibility of any change in the earthworks happening abruptly.

There is likely to be a significant delay before we hear more officially - RAIB reports typically take about a year to produce. There may be an update after the vehicles are removed if more evidence becomes safely accessible but I will not be holding my breath for that

 

[CalderRail]

RAIB is like the mills of God; they grind slowly, but exceedingly fine

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I did see a photo of a kink in the rail - so they will I assume focus on that.

 

[edwin_m]

Railway tracks are held in tension to be firm enough for trains to run on safely.

To clarify, the force is compression rather than tension when the rail is above the Stress Free Temperature, which is when buckling is a risk.

 

[altnabreac hq]

Railway tracks are held in tension to be firm enough for trains to run on safely. Metal expands when it is hot. That expansion is allowed for in the way that tracks are laid and maintained. However, if the expansion goes beyond what is allowed for, the metal may bend (“buckle”) and go out of shape. This has caused derailments in the past.

That is one suggestion for the cause of this derailment. Another, also pointed to by the RAIB statement, is that the earthworks under the train moved, meaning the line was no longer smooth. This may have been caused by drying out of the material that the embankment was made from, and it’s also been observed that the derailment site was next to a bridge - which opens the possibility of any change in the earthworks happening abruptly.

There is likely to be a significant delay before we hear more officially - RAIB reports typically take about a year to produce. There may be an update after the vehicles are removed if more evidence becomes safely accessible but I will not be holding my breath for that

To clarify, the force is compression rather than tension when the rail is above the Stress Free Temperature, which is when buckling is a risk.

Many many thanks for explaining this to me it is very much appreciated.

May i ask would this track be a continuous track (with the joints welded or whatever they do to them)

Or would it be separate bits of track with expansion gaps between them (like when you go onto an elevated bridge)

Apologies for my ignorance in all of this

Thanks

 

[zwk500]

Many many thanks for explaining this to me it is very much appreciated.

May i ask would this track be a continuous track (with the joints welded or whatever they do to them)

Or would it be separate bits of track with expansion gaps between them (like when you go onto an elevated bridge)

Apologies for my ignorance in all of this

Thanks

This area is Continuous Welded Rail.

 

[GEC465]

Southern has posted an image either on their Instagram or another social media and shows a 387 carriage being recovered

 

[nimbus75]

Southern has posted an image either on their Instagram or another social media and shows a 387 carriage being recovered

There's an updated BBC news article here: BBC News Link

Video posted on social media, external showed carriages that did not derail being transported through Lewes station overnight, as recovery work continues at the site.

Network Rail said two out of four carriages at the site were lifted and moved on Thursday, with two others to be moved on Friday.

Temporary foundations and platforms for heavy machinery were built and specialist cranes brought in...

It has some pictures of the recovery operation, and a link to a video on X of 387172 being removed.

 

[ainsworth74]

Out of curiosity, I've never considered this before, but how DO you self-evacuate from a carriage which is on its side ? Is it a question of breaking a window above your head and climbing ? Not sure I'd like to have to try it in the event of a fire (though I assume that there's not a huge amount of flammables on an electric train...), or indeed if water was rising !!

It's a slightly worrisome thought but generally speaking even a vehicle on its side you'll be able to clamber over seat backs and vestibule doors to reach the gangway either to another vehicle or the outside. Must admit however I have spent a bit of time recently eyeing up the 156 and 158 vehicles I've been in thinking about how easy/difficult it would be to maneuverer around them if the walls became the ceiling and the floor! The vestibules on both could be quite tricky for someone who isn't tall or doesn't have great upper body strength. Moving around the carriage itself though I don't think would be especially hard however.

The ladder is for climbing down from a (right way up) train, not for climbing out of a train on its side.

There's quite a dramatic picture that circulated on social media of the ladder being used by the OBS (assumed) to evacuate people via a disconnected gangway from one of the vehicles on its side. So the ladder very much can be used to climb down from a train on its side.

 

[ainsworth74]

There's quite a dramatic picture that circulated on social media of the ladder being used by the OBS (assumed) to evacuate people via a disconnected gangway from one of the vehicles on its side. So the ladder very much can be used to climb down from a train on its side.

Aha found it again!


(Image shows OBS footing a ladder whilst a passenger starts to climb down from the broken gangway of a 387 vehicle on its side)

 

[nimbus75]

Here's a link to a video on X of some of the recovery: Link to Post on X

 

[NaZzAtAzEr]

The reopening date has been announced internally at network rail so shouldn't be too long before its public.

 

[Deepgreen]

Is it possible the distortion couid be due to a bridge strike?

It isn't a road beneath and, in any case, any strike hard enough to deform both tracks would certainly have required closure, not to mention demolishing the parapets in the process. I also think we would have heard about such a bridge strike by now.

 

[BRX]

It's likely to be a swiss cheese type scenario isn't it? That section of track already subject to difficult ground conditions, as evidenced by all the reports of rough riding, and exacerbated by the unusual dryness and then some other factor such as heat related buckling pushing any misalignment just over the threshold where it becomes a problem.

 

[RUK]

The reopening date has been announced internally at network rail so shouldn't be too long before its public.

The BBC News article linked in the previous post above says:

The line between Haywards Heath and Lewes is expected to reopen on 1 September.

…

That’s a Tuesday.

… John Whitehurst, GTR chief executive, said: "Getting the line open in time for the end of the school holidays is an absolute priority for us, and we are working closely with Network Rail to achieve this despite very challenging circumstances."

 

[josh-j]

(Image shows OBS footing a ladder whilst a passenger starts to climb down from the broken gangway of a 387 vehicle on its side)

Its a rather wild photo that even though obviously it could have been way worse. Well done to the onboard staff, imagine being that guy, I don't know if I'd save and keep that photo or never want to think about it again! I thought the calmness of the announcements that got reported on was very good too, last thing you want is panic in the rest of the train.