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Hi, I received a letter from TPE Fraud and Revenue Enforcement Department last week, after an officer reported the incident and issued a travel irregularity report while I was travelling to Salford from Middlesbrough. Actually, my partner purchased a return ticket for me on trainpal app for the first time and unknowingly a 26-30 railcard was selected, and that applied a discount on the total fare after completing the booking. The ticket was sent to me and I boarded the train without checking the ticket. I have never been in this situation before, and it was my first time that the incident had happened to me. Upon inspection of my ticket on the train, the inspector asked for my railcard which I was surprised because I genuinely believed the ticket was purchased without a railcard. So I explained the situation, including our initial plans to travel together (using our two together railcard) which had changed and later my partner got me the return ticket for the same day. I have two together railcard so I just showed it even though I know it was not going to be accepted because I was not with my partner. I did not possessed the relevant railcard that was mistakenly applied to the purchased ticket. So after I got the letter - I provided all my explanations and attached my supporting evidence including the return ticket which I have booked by myself immediately after i asked the inspector and they told me that I will not be able to use the return portion of the ticket, but I can only complete my journey on the ticket. Now, I got a reply from TPE team, and they told me that I don’t have a valid railcard that was booked on the ticket and my appeal was denied because the ticket i produced had a railcard discount manually applied to the ticket. They mentioned as I do not produce a valid railcard the ticket I traveled on became invalid. And the payment of the outstanding correct fare for the journey is now due. Theys asked me if I believed I have further evidence or mitigation in support of my case that I have not already supplied, I should reply their email with any new evidence within 7 days or pay the outstanding fare of the ticket and contribution to their administration fees within 21 days. The total fare was £150. It’s quite too much for me to pay due to my condition. Any help, advice and suggestions on how to appeal or reply their email will be much appreciated. NB. I have provided evidence of the purchased return ticket which became invalid, also attached my new ticket which I purchased for my return at the end of the day. I also showed evidence of my previous booking and correct usage of our two together railcard etc.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Hi, I received a letter from TPE Fraud and Revenue Enforcement Department last week, after an officer reported the incident and issued a travel irregularity report while I was travelling to Salford from Middlesbrough. Actually, my partner purchased a return ticket for me on trainpal app for the first time and unknowingly a 26-30 railcard was selected, and that applied a discount on the total fare after completing the booking. The ticket was sent to me and I boarded the train without checking the ticket. I have never been in this situation before, and it was my first time that the incident had happened to me. Upon inspection of my ticket on the train, the inspector asked for my railcard which I was surprised because I genuinely believed the ticket was purchased without a railcard. So I explained the situation, including our initial plans to travel together (using our two together railcard) which had changed and later my partner got me the return ticket for the same day. I have two together railcard so I just showed it even though I know it was not going to be accepted because I was not with my partner. I did not possessed the relevant railcard that was mistakenly applied to the purchased ticket. So after I got the letter - I provided all my explanations and attached my supporting evidence including the return ticket which I have booked by myself immediately after i asked the inspector and they told me that I will not be able to use the return portion of the ticket, but I can only complete my journey on the ticket. Now, I got a reply from TPE team, and they told me that I don’t have a valid railcard that was booked on the ticket and my appeal was denied because the ticket i produced had a railcard discount manually applied to the ticket. They mentioned as I do not produce a valid railcard the ticket I traveled on became invalid. And the payment of the outstanding correct fare for the journey is now due. Theys asked me if I believed I have further evidence or mitigation in support of my case that I have not already supplied, I should reply their email with any new evidence within 7 days or pay the outstanding fare of the ticket and contribution to their administration fees within 21 days. The total fare was £150. It’s quite too much for me to pay due to my condition. Any help, advice and suggestions on how to appeal or reply their email will be much appreciated. NB. I have provided evidence of the purchased return ticket which became invalid, also attached my new ticket which I purchased for my return at the end of the day. I also showed evidence of my previous booking and correct usage of our two together railcard etc.
If you fail to provide evidence showing that you had a valid ticket for your journey, and you do not pay the amount requested, we may take legal action against you. This can, ultimately, lead to a criminal prosecution for contravention of Railway Byelaws.*
* Outstanding fare: Calculated in accordance with the National Rail Conditions of Travel, Clause 9.2.
* Railway Byelaws: Contravention of Railway Byelaws constitutes a Criminal Offence. Whilst we seek to avoid court wherever possible, if this matter remains unresolved then the case may be considered for legal action.
* Contribution to costs: In accordance with National Rail Conditions of Travel , Clause 9.3.
Unfortunately you have two choices. Either pay up, or face prosecution and be found guilty (because you are), which will result in a conviction (which most people are very keen to avoid), and a fine and costs which are very likely to exceed the offer made to you.
It’s galling when it was an accidental mistake, but think of it as similar to a speeding fine where you had no intention to, but crept over the speed limit or missed the signs entering a lower speed area. In both cases you are guilty of a criminal offence, with intent to commit a crime not coming into consideration - what is known as a “strict liability” offence.
Unfortunately you have two choices. Either pay up, or face prosecution and be found guilty (because you are), which will result in a conviction (which most people are very keen to avoid), and a fine and costs which are very likely to exceed the offer made to you.
As your partner unwittingly made the error when purchasing your ticket, maybe they would pay the £150 fare plus admin cost for you? As John R says above, the alternative is potential prosecution for travelling without a valid ticket.
Hi, I received a letter from TPE Fraud and Revenue Enforcement Department last week, after an officer reported the incident and issued a travel irregularity report while I was travelling to Salford from Middlesbrough. Actually, my partner purchased a return ticket for me on trainpal app for the first time and unknowingly a 26-30 railcard was selected, and that applied a discount on the total fare after completing the booking. The ticket was sent to me and I boarded the train without checking the ticket. I have never been in this situation before, and it was my first time that the incident had happened to me. Upon inspection of my ticket on the train, the inspector asked for my railcard which I was surprised because I genuinely believed the ticket was purchased without a railcard. So I explained the situation, including our initial plans to travel together (using our two together railcard) which had changed and later my partner got me the return ticket for the same day. I have two together railcard so I just showed it even though I know it was not going to be accepted because I was not with my partner. I did not possessed the relevant railcard that was mistakenly applied to the purchased ticket. So after I got the letter - I provided all my explanations and attached my supporting evidence including the return ticket which I have booked by myself immediately after i asked the inspector and they told me that I will not be able to use the return portion of the ticket, but I can only complete my journey on the ticket. Now, I got a reply from TPE team, and they told me that I don’t have a valid railcard that was booked on the ticket and my appeal was denied because the ticket i produced had a railcard discount manually applied to the ticket. They mentioned as I do not produce a valid railcard the ticket I traveled on became invalid. And the payment of the outstanding correct fare for the journey is now due. Theys asked me if I believed I have further evidence or mitigation in support of my case that I have not already supplied, I should reply their email with any new evidence within 7 days or pay the outstanding fare of the ticket and contribution to their administration fees within 21 days. The total fare was £150. It’s quite too much for me to pay due to my condition. Any help, advice and suggestions on how to appeal or reply their email will be much appreciated. NB. I have provided evidence of the purchased return ticket which became invalid, also attached my new ticket which I purchased for my return at the end of the day. I also showed evidence of my previous booking and correct usage of our two together railcard etc.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
The below info was part of the email.
If you fail to provide evidence showing that you had a valid ticket for your journey, and you do not pay the amount requested, we may take legal action against you. This can, ultimately, lead to a criminal prosecution for contravention of Railway Byelaws.*
* Outstanding fare: Calculated in accordance with the National Rail Conditions of Travel, Clause 9.2.
* Railway Byelaws: Contravention of Railway Byelaws constitutes a Criminal Offence. Whilst we seek to avoid court wherever possible, if this matter remains unresolved then the case may be considered for legal action.
* Contribution to costs: In accordance with National Rail Conditions of Travel , Clause 9.3.
Thanks for this post - without copies of the paperwork at each stage, and the reply you previously sent them - I can only make an informed estimate of what has happened here but based on the way railways companies typically deal with these sorts of scenarios I am hoping what follows explains the process, where you are probably at, and what options you have.
The 'bottom line' here is that you travelled on a journey (from Middlesborough to Salford) with a ticket discounted with a Railcard that you do not possesses.
The standard position from the Railways point of view is that if you do not hold that Railcard the ticket is not valid at all and you do not therefore have a valid ticket.
Travel without a valid ticket is in fact a criminal offence in England (even if this was entirely unintentional and a genuine mistake), for which the railway company is entitled to prosecute people in the magistrates court. Their ability to do this means they have you 'over a barrel'
However, it is usually the case that before the railway company (Trans Pennine Express - TPE in this case) escalate matters to court they usually write to people and ask for 'their version of events' - this can then result in an offer to resolve the matter by payment of the correct fare usually with a a sum added on to reflect their admin costs for looking into this.
This is essentially an 'out of court settlement offer' based on what they argue you should have paid along with an admin charge for the work involved in pursuing this. It seems to me this is what has happened, and this is the sum they are asking you for.
Had you noticed the ticket was wrong before you got on the train you could probably have sorted things out at the ticket office in Middlesborough (either by actually buying the correct Railcard should you have been entitled to it, or by buying a new correct ticket, or perhaps by paying an excess fare to correct the wrong ticket). But the moment you got on the train those options ended.
On the train some staff might have given you the chance to buy a brand new ticket (almost certainly at the expensive Anytime Fare - which for that journey is £71.80 for an Anytime Single Middleborough to Salford Central)
In some instances a Penalty Fare might have been issued (this is £100 reduced to £50 if paid promptly, plus the cost of a new ticket) - But some train operators do not use Penalty Fares and some staff are not permitted to issue them
Or the ticket inspector you encountered has the option of 'reporting you for investigation'. We see this usually with Railcard errors because staff know that people either have been using discounts when they have overlooked renewing their railcard for some time (so have been getting discounts they are not entitled to for lots of travel albeit unintentionally) or they have intentionally been using a Railcard discount as a way of deliberately avoiding paying the correct fare - when they do not have such a railcard. The staff on the train want to report this to the back office who can check ticket purchase history and investigate how much may be owed for past tickets - which train companies will potentially seek to recoup all of that as part of any settlement offer.
When you get reported for investigation the railway company write to you asking for your version of events, and it sounds like you replied to that.
Presumably TPE then opted not to prosecute you, but to charge you for a new ticket (presumably the Anytime Single at £71.80) plus and admin fee with the amount totalling £150
What happens next
If you do not pay the sum they are asking for they can (and likely will) just escalate this to the magistrates court, and commence prosecution against you. If it got to court as explained you would be find guilty of travel without a valid ticket, receive a fine from the court, costs etc. This would certainly come to more than £150. You would also have a criminal record that you would have to declare if asked for a period of time. Albeit for a relatively minor criminal offence. My advice is this is best avoided
What options do you have
In theory you could let this go to court, turn up at court, plead your case to the Magistrates and see what happens. But I would not advise this - as I don't think it would work as this is a 'strict liability offence' as explained in post #2.
alternatively
You could try writing back to TPE and ask them if they will consider reducing the sum they are asking for, in the light of the amount you have already paid for tickets and again saying their was no intention to evade the correct fare and this was a genuine mistake - ie asking them if you can pay the difference between what you paid and what you should have paid without the Railcard. You would be appealing to their good will.
We see cases on here involving TPE and they seem to often take a reasonable stance - you might have a bit of luck trying this
But....This risk of doing this is that they just withdraw the current 'offer to settle' of £150 and take it to court.
You have no formal 'right of appeal' to TPE about the sum they are asking for in this situation (only a Penalty Fare has a Right of Appeal - which is why they are a better option than being reported for investigation).
If you did want to write back to TPE to ask them if they will reduce the sum requested, I would advise posting a draft of what you want to say here so that people can help you get the wording as good as it can be, before you send it.
If you opt to pay the sum they are now asking for make sure you obtain proof of payment and keep that proof safe.
If you are unable to pay the £150 then the best option is to see if you can borrow that from trusted family or friends. Do not use any sort of dubious money lending service. The only thing to say about court is that you can pay a court fine by installments if your financial circumstances require it - but you would be paying more as I would expect the outcome of court to cost more than £150.
I hope this information is of some help. You have my sympathy.
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
