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Should children be taught how to use public transport at school?

SuspectUsual

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However, it's quite feasible that many parents' last experience of a train was that it's always normal to be able to pay the conductor onboard. Passing that 'knowledge' to their children will cause more harm than good. Therefore, teaching in school is eminently sensible.

And when a schoolkid gets a PF or TIR and tells their parents they did what the teacher told them?

Apart from it being absolutely a basic part of parenting, its a potential minefield of claims against the school
 
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_toommm_

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South Yorkshire had a scheme called 'Crucial Crew' where we went and learned about personal safety, journey planning etc.


Worked well as the nearest comprehensive school was a bus ride or two away from where I grew up, whether that be public transport or school buses. We all got free passes so didnt have to pay the 40p single as it was back then, but nevertheless it was probably helpful looking back.
 

styles

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I wouldn't say I wholly disagree with the idea.

But I do find schools are becoming the go-to for a lot of things which east into regular curriculum time.

Things I've seen campaigned for schools to teach:
I get that a lot of these can be simple 1 hour lessons, but I do sometimes feel a bit skeptical about just adding more topics into PSHE lessons. Without skipping other topics, or increasing the length of the school day, not everything can be packed into compact lessons, and arguably those topics which can be condensed are topics which pupils could learn about in other ways.

I'm aware of a teenager with learning difficulties who struggles with public transport, and there's a case there about SEN provision for life skills, but I volunteer with children as young as 10 and we do take public transport to events and I'm yet to meet one who hasn't worked out how to do it. That's not to counter @yorkie's point about some children missing out; I just wonder what the scale of this actually is. If anything, I would expect those from lower socio-economic backgrounds to be more familiar with things like buses and cycling, maybe less so with trains, because owning and running a car is expensive.
 

JohnofWessex

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.......................

I'm aware of a teenager with learning difficulties who struggles with public transport, and there's a case there about SEN provision for life skills, but I volunteer with children as young as 10 and we do take public transport to events and I'm yet to meet one who hasn't worked out how to do it. That's not to counter @yorkie's point about some children missing out; I just wonder what the scale of this actually is. If anything, I would expect those from lower socio-economic backgrounds to be more familiar with things like buses and cycling, maybe less so with trains, because owning and running a car is expensive.

I would suggest that there are some from 'lower socio economic backgrounds' who are wedded to cars and would never imagine getting a bus or train - at least if you are upper class and go up to town then you probably use the Tube
 

GarethC

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I get that a lot of these can be simple 1 hour lessons, but I do sometimes feel a bit skeptical about just adding more topics into PSHE lessons. Without skipping other topics, or increasing the length of the school day, not everything can be packed into compact lessons, and arguably those topics which can be condensed are topics which pupils could learn about in other ways.
As someone who has tried to plan a coherent PSH(E)E [at one point it was Personal, Social, Health and Economic Education] I fully agree. There isn't enough time in the curriculum to deliver everything properly. You end up shoehorning things together that don't really fit, or it gets a one off lesson. Often PSHE is delivered by a random assortment of teachers who's specialisms are elsewhere, so it doesn't always have the impact you want.

There appears (as @styles has alluded) to be a trend of anything that needs to be 'taught' needing to be done so by school. Historically this has never been the case. Education happens both formally and informally in many different settings. 'Society' or the 'village' provided these through different organisations and media.
 

Krokodil

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The ‘public transport’ lesson was a given for us. As our school trips always involved public transport, we took the opportunity to let the class plan the journey themselves under the teacher’s supervision. Back then, of course, we still used the printed timetable. I can remember how the whole class (having given the ticket clerk a heads-up) rushed to the ticket counter at the station, where we were then told about all the options available.
Speaking as a secondary school teacher, I agree with the other posters who have said that accessing and using public transport is a key part of parenting, not something to be taught in schools. Where schools can help, this can be through experiences rather than through explicit lessons.

I agree with the "experience" part. I once had a class from Ysgol Dolwyddelan (a small village primary) board for a cricket tournament in Llanrwst. There wasn't really any "teaching", the ticketing discussion (TfW's free accompanied child concessions) took place just between me and the group leader), but the simple activity of travelling by train to get somewhere makes it a bit more familiar and will encourage use later in life.
 

styles

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I agree with the "experience" part. I once had a class from Ysgol Dolwyddelan (a small village primary) board for a cricket tournament in Llanrwst. There wasn't really any "teaching", the ticketing discussion (TfW's free accompanied child concessions) took place just between me and the group leader), but the simple activity of travelling by train to get somewhere makes it a bit more familiar and will encourage use later in life.
Though I think this highlights another issue with adding it to trying to shoehorn it in. If it's just naturally part of an activity, the pupils get to actually do it. If it's to fit into an hour's PSHE lesson in the middle of the school day, is it really feasible to take pupils down to a bus stop, get them all to buy a ticket/scan their pass on the bus, travel a couple of stops to see how to know where to get off, wait for a return bus in the opposite direction, do the same again, etc? With catching a train, getting a class of 30 children to buy a ticket somehow and the scheduling of the train services would be even more challenging, except perhaps those whose school is outside an Underground station somewhere fairly central. Doing it in a classroom would be half-baking it.

The young people I volunteer with do travel by public transport at times and as a result they naturally learn how to do it, but I would shy away from specifically encouraging groups to go out of their way to teach it as it's not practical, or at least, there's a thousand other things they'd be better spending their time doing.

This thread was a spinoff from a discussion regarding railway ticket complexity and fare evasion though. Bringing it back to that, the fares system for GB rail is so complex that the forum occassionally runs fares workshops which take longer than a PSHE session would and cover reasonably advanced topics. That many of the advanced fare topics even exist is more likely to be a problem for people making their first rail journey than the fact that buying a ticket and boarding a train isn't taught in schools. And for those living in Wick, you'd have to explain why their national operator's mobile app requires you to search for WCK instead of Wick, because if you search for Wick, none of the results shown are indeed for Wick.
 

norbitonflyer

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I klearned how to use a bus when i was six. My mother used to take me to school on the bus, but let me buy the tickets from the conductor (with her money of course!). At that age I thought that was a huge privilege.
 

Lewisham2221

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It's probably about 40 years too late for that, far too many of the current and upcoming generations of parents would barely have a clue themselves.

Some sort of social media collaboration with transport operators and popular "influencers" (cringe) would probably be more effective.
 

Violette

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How would schools go about teaching kids how to use trains? A period a week where they teach general life skills perhaps or do they actually take the kids on a field trip to experience trains? Do you think parents would agree to sign the permission form for such an activity?

I was never taught how to use public transport at school and my parents drove everywhere, despite living in London, so I had to work out how it worked as I went along. Yes, I made some mistakes such as taking a bus in the wrong direction or buying a return ticket when I was heading home afterwards to a different station than I started at. Not sure I would have avoided those errors had I been taught how to use public transport. For things like ticketing its so complicated that I wouldn't expect parents or teachers to know how it worked anyway.

Things such as using headphones, holding on if standing and the vehicle is moving etc is just common sense and really shouldn't need to to be taught. I suspect kids know these things, even without being taught them, and just choose not to do them
No, you literally have to teach children everything. A friend of mine complained, that his 10 year old son could not take the bus. He could not take the train. He had to be driven to school. He did not have the skill, to make his own breakfast. After, speaking to other parents, he concluded that this was normal. He felt that in our time, we were pushed too hard. Perhaps, the schools could teach the use of public transport. It only takes one or two good educational videos.
 

adc82140

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Before the days of formal PSHE teaching, we had a teacher when I was about 12 who went out of his way to explain how adult life worked.

He covered finances, including tax, pensions, mortgages.

Also, I think ahead of his times as this was the late 1980s, how not to get scammed, and how to be cynical about advertising.

But relevant to here, he also taught us how public transport worked, including ticketing, being safe, and expected behaviours.

By the age of 13 I was using the train on my own, including interchanges.

I will always be grateful for his insight.
 

Sun Chariot

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Perhaps, the schools could teach the use of public transport. It only takes one or two good educational videos.
But why? Schools have an already-oveloaded* agenda: OFSTED policies changing,
Childrens' behavioural disruption (no highly-effective corporal punishment, these days),
Seeming loss of basic social skills and boundaries (in my day, we sorted school disagreements with a scuffle, not a knife).

Basic "living education" starts with parents. No excuses.

* I speak from hearing my mother's weary anecdotes, from her final few years prior to her retirement 20 years ago.
 

Violette

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But why? Schools have an already-oveloaded* agenda: OFSTED policies changing,
Childrens' behavioural disruption (no highly-effective corporal punishment, these days),
Seeming loss of basic social skills and boundaries (in my day, we sorted school disagreements with a scuffle, not a knife).

Basic "living education" starts with parents. No excuses.

* I speak from hearing my mother's weary anecdotes, from her final few years prior to her retirement 20 years ago.
Nice to hear from you. What the children have not learnt, they must learn as adults. I feel sorry for them. They are the ones that will struggle.
 

3rd rail land

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Nice to hear from you. What the children have not learnt, they must learn as adults. I feel sorry for them. They are the ones that will struggle.
Kids are capable of figuring some things out for themselves. An example for me was how to use public transport. What does need to be taught has to be done by both schools and parents. Schools can't teach everything, there isn't enough funding for that or hours in the school year. As for your earlier example of a 10 year not knowing how to use a bus, why didn't the parents teach him? You may think of this as harsh but its not the schools responsibility to teach kids absolutely everything.

Personally I've never experienced the PSHE lessons that have been mentioned in this thread. Maybe this is because I went to a private school or perhaps it wasn't a thing in the 90s/2000s when I was a school kid.
 

Sun Chariot

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Nice to hear from you. What the children have not learnt, they must learn as adults. I feel sorry for them. They are the ones that will struggle.
And their parent(s) has the time, ability and the responsibility to teach and guide their children about all those life skills. It's known as parenting.

My now 24-year-old son has cognitive and coordination disabilities which mean his mental-age will always be arrested at that of a 5 to 6 year-old's. Responsibility for all his daily learning-support is, rightly, mine and my wife's.
 
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gswindale

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Nice to hear from you. What the children have not learnt, they must learn as adults. I feel sorry for them. They are the ones that will struggle.
Learning begins at home though.

I remember catching the bus with my Mum & Grandma in the mid 80s, when I was at most early primary school age. I would have learnt what to do from seeing the process and having it explained to me.

Part of the problem today is that too many parents are unwilling to partake in education and think that teachers should do it all.
 

Kevin51

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Because children might one day go somewhere there are trains. No different to teaching my kid safety at the beach despite me hating beaches and living 150 miles from one. That is a useful thing to teach a child. Parenthood is about giving children the tools to be able to make their own choices and to have agency when they are old enough.
There are all sorts of things children might do one day. Should schools cover every single eventuality. Schools should stick to the core subjects and ignore all the mumbo jumbo.
 

GusB

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While I don't recall ever being taught how to use public transport at school, road safety was drummed into us fairly regularly. We even had a bus trip into town to see the late Dave Prowse doing his Green Cross Code show. Cycling proficiency was also taught, although that fell by the wayside after the Great School Strikes of the 80s and I didn't get the chance. If we can teach these, why not the basics of public transport too? It doesn't have to be a three week course; a 30-60 minute video would probably suffice.

It's all well and good saying that it should be the parents' responsibility, but would they even think about teaching their offspring if they never use public transport themselves?
 

BuhSnarf

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Things I've seen campaigned for schools to teach:
I would argue that I'd rather the school teach children all of the above over what date the Battle of Hastings, the name for a bendy river was. As someone who volunteers teaching basic finance in schools it's clear that some children don't have the access to good financial information at home.

We have to remember that relying on the parent to teach their children relies on them knowing the correct information. If they are someone who regularly falls for fake news on social media are they really going to be able to instill that in their kid? Or they struggle themselves to budget, have no pension or - on the theme of this thread - have never travelled on public transport. And this, of course, also implies that the parent has the time and energy to impart these life skills, with many working class parents now working multiple jobs just cleaning the house and getting a meal on the table is as far as they get before collapsing in to bed.

In my opinion I'd like to actually see the time allocated to PSHE/Adult Skills/Basic Knowledge expanded in schools and a shake up of traditional education.

In my kids local school they are taken to a number of trips to an offsite charity that teach things like road safety, rail safety, fire prevention, first aid, finances etc. etc. The kids love it and they've even taught me stuff I didn't know.
 

Krokodil

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Leaving the teaching of life skills to parents just repeats the cycle.

In my kids local school they are taken to a number of trips to an offsite charity that teach things like road safety, rail safety, fire prevention, first aid, finances etc. etc. The kids love it and they've even taught me stuff I didn't know.
There's a "life skills" place in one of the former tobacco bonds in Bristol. Year 6 classes go around and are given practical examples of rail safety, electrical safety, gas safety etc.
 

BuhSnarf

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Leaving the teaching of life skills to parents just repeats the cycle.

Exactly. Realistically there should be a parenting course that all parents go on to ensure that they have a sufficient level of skills to teach their young ones - but that's never going to be achievable.

You only have to take Covid as an example, some parents wouldn't teach their kids and some couldn't teach their kids (struggled to cope with the demands, struggled to grasp the material, found that it created a rather hostile home environment.) Imparting knowledge on to kids is actually quite difficult because you've got to have a certain temperament and A LOT of patience! Which is why our teachers should be paid a hell of a lot more.

There's a "life skills" place in one of the former tobacco bonds in Bristol. Year 6 classes go around and are given practical examples of rail safety, electrical safety, gas safety etc.
Yes, this seems to be a similar type of place.
 

AlterEgo

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Exactly. Realistically there should be a parenting course that all parents go on to ensure that they have a sufficient level of skills to teach their young ones - but that's never going to be achievable.
Really I felt quite radicalised about this idea when my daughter was born. We went to the antenatal classes and were fully prepared. It was extremely worthwhile but it was also not cheap or accessible to everyone.

We are also not young first time parents either; we have seen friends have kids and had a good idea about what we would and would not imitate, but the classes were very good. They should be compulsory and perhaps another at age 5.
 

sabanda

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On a recent trip to Weymouth, a group of secondary school students boarded via just about any door possible - resulting in several teenagers sitting in first class and laughing about how they weren't supposed to be in there with 'the posh people'. At least the teachers were suitably apologetic when they caught up with them!
 

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