Lineside vegetation in light of recent heatwaves

[peteb]

Given the recent heatwaves and numerous fire incidents across the UK, isn't it time for Network Rail to adopt a more robust policy to seek funding to properly de-vegetate the lineside? (And yes, of course, at the appropriate time of year to minimise harm to wildlife).

Hitherto vegetation issues have been focussed on the damage caused to rolling stock by encroaching vegetation or the risks of running steam trains in hot weather setting it alight.

However the recent fire at Stourbridge which has closed the OWW Kidderminster to Stourbridge Junction route this weekend did not appear to originate from the railway. But the overgrown sides of the sandstone cutting through which the railway passes close to the fire can clearly be seen to be burnt back in aerial videos like this one:

So we're not talking about an overgrown embankment or woodland by the railway here, this is a cutting which used to be virtually totally vegetation free. Now it isn't. And that's a potential issue with summers predicted to get hotter and heatwaves more frequent. And it's an issue likely to be repeated across the Network.

 

[renegademaster]

Wouldn't a forrested embankment be better for fire risk than grassland that likely wouldn't be kept as short as it needs to be? That said high winds and branches downing OLE is much more common an occurrence so it would probably make more sense planning for the winter than the summer on a purely economic basis

 

[Ballyheigue]

When I was younger, a train I was waiting for in a storm ended up cancelled owing to a landslip causing a tree to fall onto the line, my first reaction was 'what idiot put trees next to the rail line to start with' lol. I had a very valid point and I think someone else thinks the same as we've seen a mass cutting down of trees on the Airedale line in West Yorkshire. I think a blunt approach is needed whereby all greenery is removed within half a mile of a line and instead replaced by rocks. you then mostly keep out trespassers, landslips are reduced, no leaves on the line and so on. Yes there is the small issue of houses within half a mile of a line, but that's sorted by a compulsory purchase order, a bit like what happened with HS2. Who pays for all this expense you might ask, well if all the rich foreign students paying 10k a month in rent were taxed heavily then that's a start, those with deep pockets should cough up and once it's paid for, in effect it pays for itself as you don't have to cough up for train delays, clearing landslips (including re-building in some cases), cleaning leaves off tracks and so on.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I certainly agree that there needs to be a vegetation management/cull ideally starting about October.

 

[Johnnie2Sheds]

Railways are not a nature reserve and that damn Buddleia especially needs sything into oblivion. It looks unprofessional and a complete mess. As with everything in this country the railways have been stripped down to the last ha' penny.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Railways are not a nature reserve and that damn Buddleia especially needs sything into oblivion. It looks unprofessional and a complete mess. As with everything in this country the railways have been stripped down to the last ha' penny.

A bit more bluntly than I would have phrased it -but yes. Absolutely. Every October/November/December should happen.

 

[cin88]

Railways are not a nature reserve and that damn Buddleia especially needs sything into oblivion. It looks unprofessional and a complete mess. As with everything in this country the railways have been stripped down to the last ha' penny.

I'm unfortunate enough to have 4 very mature specimens of Buddleia in my front garden, i've trimmed 3 of the 4 back 4 times so far this year and every time the damn thing gets out of hand again as soon as a good rain hits. My neighbours are going to be in for a bit of a shock over winter as I intend to take a pruning saw to the whole lot and trim it all right to the ground, including the currently untouched 4th one.

I do wish we'd do something about it lineside though. I've incidences where the maintenance teams have turned up and had to abandon their work as the warning device controls that they need to use have been completely overrun and buried by Buddleia. The weed killing train doesn't seem to do much either, last time I saw it passing it only seemed to be spraying the 4 foot.

 

[cats_five]

I'm unfortunate enough to have 4 very mature specimens of Buddleia in my front garden, i've trimmed 3 of the 4 back 4 times so far this year and every time the damn thing gets out of hand again as soon as a good rain hits. My neighbours are going to be in for a bit of a shock over winter as I intend to take a pruning saw to the whole lot and trim it all right to the ground, including the currently untouched 4th one.

There were buddleia in my garden when I moved in. They needed cutting right back each year otherwise they got bigger & bigger, and the flowers & leaf fall weren't sufficient recompense for me. Not even an excuse to get the chipper out was. So I killed them, by constantly removing new shoots. To do it on the railway scale I think would require several applications of glyphosate or similar.

 

[StoneRoad]

Possibly my viewpoint could be heresy, but because it attracts so many butterflies I quite like buddleia - in the right place, of course. A bit like Rhododendron flowers in May --- both can freely chuck seed about [perhaps we need to breed varieties that are semi-sterile ?]

{e2a - my garden buddleia die back after a few years, something to do with shade & competition from other, bigger [real] trees}.

But I know it is a problem because of the roots, as are various other plants, especially around / on structures like bridges and buildings.

A proper vegetation management plan is needed, perhaps if GBR aren't paying all the privatised CEO salaries, there could be enough budget for this ...

However, trees do provide SHADE, something the track seems to need a lot of atm.

Quite a dilemma for the decision makers !

 

[Bald Rick]

There just isn’t the money to do wholesale devegetation, and even if there was it would be better spent on other things.

I don’t know if anyone has recently had a quote for removing a tree or cutting back a large hedge, but it is not cheap.

Then ask them to do it withall the necessary railway competencies, sometimes from a access point some distance from the tree itself, only at night or on a Sunday, and multiply it by the millions of trees within, say, 10 metres of the line (most of which are not on railway property), and you can see the problem.

This is why there has been an extensive survey of all trees by the lineside, to prioritise those that need doing.

 

[styles]

There just isn’t the money to do wholesale devegetation, and even if there was it would be better spent on other things.

I don’t know if anyone has recently had a quote for removing a tree or cutting back a large hedge, but it is not cheap.

Then ask them to do it withall the necessary railway competencies, sometimes from a access point some distance from the tree itself, only at night or on a Sunday, and multiply it by the millions of trees within, say, 10 metres of the line (most of which are not on railway property), and you can see the problem.

This is why there has been an extensive survey of all trees by the lineside, to prioritise those that need doing.

This is the one. I was on Brownsea Island a few years ago and got chatting to a National Trust volunteer about conservation. They described their attempts at controlling the rhododendron and it sounded very 'expensive' (they're volunteers but it's time-heavy and removing it still costs money. They're ploughing on, but that's because they are actually running a nature reserve.

I don't know how Network Rail currently do it but last time I lived near a railway line and they came to do it, it was half a dozen or so hand-held chainsaws, so that's half a dozen or so members of staff, presumably on night working rates, burning through petrol, then the work involved clearing up the cuttings. I imagine that's slow going so to do that across the whole vegetated parts of the network would cost a fortune. It has to be done on some sort of priority basis.

 

[Acathater]

Given the current dryness of the lineside vegetation, now is a perfect time to burn it all off.
A series of lineside fires would rapidly remove the problem. To be effective it needs doing quickly before the rains return.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Given the current dryness of the lineside vegetation, now is a perfect time to burn it all off.
A series of lineside fires would rapidly remove the problem. To be effective it needs doing quickly before the rains return.

Did you not receive the UK Government text alert last night?

 

[Bald Rick]

Given the current dryness of the lineside vegetation, now is a perfect time to burn it all off.
A series of lineside fires would rapidly remove the problem. To be effective it needs doing quickly before the rains return.

Very good.
There might, just, be a few unwelcome consequences of such a course of action, as we have seen at various locatons around the network.

 

[peteb]

Rail passengers warned of ongoing disruption after major Stourbridge fire

Rail passengers are being urged to check before they travel after a major fire near the railway between Stourbridge Junction and Hagley closes part of the Snow Hill Lines.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Pictures of railway cutting vegetation by Stourbridge fire available at the above link. Also below:

Network Rail teams assessing Stourbridge fire damage

Information for journalists, press, bloggers and the media about Network Rail. Contact the press office to receive news, updates, press releases, videos, pictures, and factsheets, and to arrange interviews, filming and photography

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

 

[GRALISTAIR]

My grandfather was a track maintenance man and used to deliberately set fire to the embankment regularly.

 

[Bald Rick]

My grandfather was a track maintenance man and used to deliberately set fire to the embankment regularly.

Hopefully not those with houses just the other side of the fence, or electrical cables in the way.

 

[Paul AC]

I got a bollocking on here a while ago for daring to suggest that lineside vegetation was not being managed properly.

I will now repeat: I consider that lineside vegetation is not being managed properly.

There are now huge lengths of the West Coast Main Line where there's basically continuous train shaped trees and bushes. This is only being managed by the passing trains, mostly containers (hence clean vertical edges to the trees) or somewhat more curvy shapes from passenger vehicles and locomotives.

There are trees in the 10 foot along many sections that are taller than the OLE, which is asking for a different problem.

I dare anybody to tell me that this is being managed, because it clearly isn't. it's cost-cutting enforced by senior management or those above, pure and simple.

Much of this is not visible from a passenger viewpoint: try a cab ride sometime, as I do reasonably regularly as part of my duties.

 

[Bald Rick]

its not cost cutt8ng - more is spent on vegetation now than I can remember for a long time.

Theres just an awful lot of it.

 

[peteb]

A nice buddleia bush at the south end of Birmingham Moor Street platform 2 scratches every passing train! Surprised it hasn't been chopped.........

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Hopefully not those with houses just the other side of the fence, or electrical cables in the way.

Yes to houses but not sure about cables. Less electric in those days.

 

[InTheEastMids]

A nice buddleia bush at the south end of Birmingham Moor Street platform 2 scratches every passing train! Surprised it hasn't been chopped.........

Experienced similar coming through Proof House area into New Street from the Water Orton Direction. Almost certainly buddleia.

From the gardener's perspective there's a lot of new small varieties that stop at 1-2m tall so are not as hellbent on world domination as the traditional buddleia, but of course no help for the railway.

Is vegetation management contracted out, done in-house by Network Rail,or by a mix?

 

[45Fox]

I got a bollocking on here a while ago for daring to suggest that lineside vegetation was not being managed properly.

I will now repeat: I consider that lineside vegetation is not being managed properly.

There are now huge lengths of the West Coast Main Line where there's basically continuous train shaped trees and bushes. This is only being managed by the passing trains, mostly containers (hence clean vertical edges to the trees) or somewhat more curvy shapes from passenger vehicles and locomotives.

There are trees in the 10 foot along many sections that are taller than the OLE, which is asking for a different problem.

I dare anybody to tell me that this is being managed, because it clearly isn't. it's cost-cutting enforced by senior management or those above, pure and simple.

Much of this is not visible from a passenger viewpoint: try a cab ride sometime, as I do reasonably regularly as part of my duties.

I thoroughly and wholeheartedly agree with you.

I get accused of constantly banging on about this, it won't stop me though.

What are all the roots doing to infrastructure; such as trackbeds, ballast formations, bridges, retaining walls, embankments, OHL structures, etc? Trees are deliberately avoided/removed from near houses and other buildings because of possible damage caused by the roots, they have to grow somewhere.

There's the weather related risks, lines getting blocked during wintery conditions, wind, snow and such like; in the present weather we are experiencing, fire risk is obvious.

As already mentioned, it looks so absolutely unprofessional, creating an impression to passengers and others that the railway just doesn't care.

My very real fear is that nothing meaningful will get done until there is a major incident that is found to be directly attributable to any of this, then we'll see a classic example of locking the stable door when the horse has well and truly bolted.

 

[peteb]

Experienced similar coming through Proof House area into New Street from the Water Orton Direction. Almost certainly buddleia.

From the gardener's perspective there's a lot of new small varieties that stop at 1-2m tall so are not as hellbent on world domination as the traditional buddleia, but of course no help for the railway.

Is vegetation management contracted out, done in-house by Network Rail,or by a mix?

Great news! Someone has cut back the buddleia at Birmingham Moor Street.

 

[Acathater]

Great news! Someone has cut back the buddleia at Birmingham Moor Street.

Cutting back is pointless if you don't kill the roots

 

[Ploughman]

Back in the 90's my main task amongst other equally busy tasks was to plan out the veg clearance for the LNW Electrification.
We were given the target of 6m out from the nearest rail and 6m metres up.
I think we just about managed that with some areas getting rather more like between Cononley and Skipton or conversely the approach to Ben Rhydding with its Rhodedendron hedging on the Dn side.
We used some rail staff from the BR Nursery at Poppleton York as a weekend Overtime shift. This largely was under chop and drop with limited clear up.
However we used 2 Firms of Tree Surgeons to a lot better output and greater clear up with chippers. Normally 8 contractors with 2 feeding the chipper and the rest cutting usually from ropes.
Unfortunately as soon as the job was completed, no more felling was undertaken and within 3-4 years the situation was back to what it had been and in some places there were some areas of 20ft regrowth in 2 years.

 

[Magrar]

The removal of plants will continue until the carbon content of the atmosphere improves.

 

[JohnofWessex]

I have no idea if this would work or not but whenever there is a possession include vegetation clearance work as the line is closed anyway

 

[peteb]

Cutting back is pointless if you don't kill the roots

Agree, but at least it's a move in the right direction. Problem is it's not usually possible to use very toxic weedkillers anymore, especially where a site drains into a water course.

 

[The Planner]

I have no idea if this would work or not but whenever there is a possession include vegetation clearance work as the line is closed anyway

Assumes the resource is there.