Off the road at Paddington

[AlterEgo]

On Opentraintimes maps of Paddington it is not showing blocked for that platform so I would assume it has now been removed.

Would be interesting to know how it was removed. These things are pretty heavy. Dragged to the platform end and driven up the ramp?

 

[greatkingrat]

The note in the signalling berth was removed at 0330.

Berth History - D3 A025 - Vail Data

The berth history page allows you to view the historic descriptions/headcodes that where in a berth signalled by Network Rail, for up to the past 90 days.

vaildata.uk

 

[800001]

Would be interesting to know how it was removed. These things are pretty heavy. Dragged to the platform end and driven up the ramp?

Maybe a very small road vehicle with a crane?

 

[Magrar]

There's no way that vehicle weighed more than a tonne, and in all likelihood, was significantly under it. It was also not fully down in the track, it still had one wheel on the platform. And it quite clearly can be gripped by several people working closely together as a team.

All that tells me that this lift was well within the capabilities of strong smart humans working as a team led by a foreman to a well thought out and properly managed plan of action, with the OLE being a complete red herring.

The only factors in play here, will have been Elf and Safety first and foremost, and the sheer impossibility of getting enough strong smart people employed by the railway together in one place at short notice, ready and willing to put their back into it, for national pride.

The alternative method, notably, if it involved machinery working at night doing an unusual task, is also not without risk clearly. I'd be very interested to know, for example, did their own plan of action, or indeed the way they actually did it, see no human being in any danger of suffering a crush injury at any point, should something have gone wrong? I doubt it.

We need to see the tapes.

 

[edwin_m]

There's no way that vehicle weighed more than a tonne, and in all likelihood, was significantly under it. It was also not fully down in the track, it still had one wheel on the platform. And it quite clearly can be gripped by several people working closely together as a team.

All that tells me that this lift was well within the capabilities of strong smart humans working as a team led by a foreman to a well thought out and properly managed plan of action, with the OLE being a complete red herring.

The only factors in play here, will have been Elf and Safety first and foremost, and the sheer impossibility of getting enough strong smart people employed by the railway together in one place at short notice, ready and willing to put their back into it, for national pride.

The alternative method, notably, if it involved machinery working at night doing an unusual task, is also not without risk clearly. I'd be very interested to know, for example, did their own plan of action, or indeed the way they actually did it, see no human being in any danger of suffering a crush injury at any point, should something have gone wrong? I doubt it.

We need to see the tapes.

A quick search suggests a golf buggy weighs between 300 and 800kg, and this one being larger will be near the top end of that range. That's the weight of about ten average people. Also difficult to get a grip on it, and to lift in a safe way without risking serious back injury. This is assuming the batteries are intact and not at risk of leaking acid.

Most likely they brought a road-rail vehicle in, which would have needed a possession from the nearest access point, put a couple of straps round it and lifted it back onto the platform or carried it to somewhere it could more easily be removed.

 

[saismee]

Society is really cooked when people can't distinguish AI photos from real ones. I assume this is an innate skill that people have because nothing about that image would suggest it was generated to me.

Has the buggy gone by now? (1020, Sunday)

This is not the kind of language I expected here, especially not from you. An accurate description (possibly literally with these heatwaves) though.

 

[Acathater]

Push it the rest of the way off and run it as a passenger service

Rail replacement bus?

 

[saismee]

Rail replacement bus?

Probably a nicer ride (cooler) than most RRBs.

 

[Haywain]

The only factors in play here, will have been Elf and Safety first and foremost,

The way you phrase that says much about your attitude to legislation which has meant that over the years significant numbers of people have gone to work each day in the knowledge that their lives are valued and the risk of not returning home at the end of the day is very low. I am quite happy not to return to a time when human lives were not valued purely in the interests of expediency and cost.

 

[norbitonflyer]

If the consensus was they could manage without that platform for the rest of the day then thete was no urgency to remove it. Presumably platform 12 was also blocked until it had been inspected and they were sure the buggy wasnt fouling the track, and wouldnt fall further and foul it.
I would imagine if it had happened on a through platform at, say, Slough, they would have moved it more quickly, closing the line for as long as necessary.

 

[Magrar]

A quick search suggests a golf buggy weighs between 300 and 800kg, and this one being larger will be near the top end of that range. That's the weight of about ten average people. Also difficult to get a grip on it, and to lift in a safe way without risking serious back injury. This is assuming the batteries are intact and not at risk of leaking acid.

You missed the main point - basic physics means lifting a weight of 800kg from the ground to a platform, is totally different to merely righting that weight, when one corner of it is already at platform level.

We'll have to agree to disagree regarding whether that's an easy thing to grip.

The way you phrase that says much about your attitude to legislation which has meant that over the years significant numbers of people have gone to work each day in the knowledge that their lives are valued and the risk of not returning home at the end of the day is very low. I am quite happy not to return to a time when human lives were not valued purely in the interests of expediency and cost.

My whole comment of course included this.....

to a well thought out and properly managed plan of action,

Now if you think I am callous enough in that situation to draw up a plan that cares not a jot for the potential of back injury, more power to you. Maybe you mix with a very different kind of British citizen entirely? I am neither evil or incompetent. But I can recognise the Great British problem of the workshy barrack room lawyer when I see it.

 

[Haywain]

But I can recognise the Great British problem of the workshy barrack room lawyer when I see it.

Can you really? I find that very offensive.

 

[Magrar]

Can you really? I find that very offensive.

As offensive as being told you don't value human life?

 

[Haywain]

As offensive as being told you don't value human life?

I didn't say that, I said that your wording of "Elf and Safety" suggests an attitude that doesn't - in that it is generally used by those who think that the legislation and the caution that goes with it gets in the way.

 

[Mark Goodspeed]

I take it Switzerland don't have luggage / mail vehicles at all on platforms or do they all have platform edge doors to prevent this accident or do Swiss staff never have medical episodes when using such vehicles? Of course it could happen.

We all have a work ethic and pride and that is why it was not removed quickly.

Pride is causing minimal delay to passengers - it would have required a line block and probably an electrcal isolation affecting more platforms and resultant delays. Pride is also about doing a task proffesionaly and safely.

Work ethic - so jump down and retrieve it immediately. Thats a dead weight and a vehicle at an unstable angle. The potential for serious injury retrieving that by "handballing" it back on the platform is very high. So easy to hurt your back, slip a disk the list goes on.

Remove it in the small hours with a road rail vehicle doing the work with a properly thought out plan.

I saw a luggage trolley go over the edge of the platform at Zurich HB (within the last five years I think). No drama, no fuss, the workmen using it just hopped down to track level and picked it back up. All over in ten minutes.
Admittedly, probably lighter than this one and a lower platform.
But it struck me at the time that it would have been a much bigger deal in the UK.

 

[Crithylum]

That is something I certainly wouldn't handle manually, even with unlimited people. Awkward shape, awkward height, trip hazards with rail and sleepers, people needing to lean over from the platform (and potentially falling off)...
So much that can go very wrong.

 

[Falcon1200]

Instead of just moving the thing, we have track blocks, platforms out of use, taping off the area and a whole load of excuses for being totally useless.

So I ask you, again, how would you have removed the vehicle?

And it quite clearly can be gripped by several people working closely together as a team.

This really is complete nonsense.

 

[Magrar]

This really is complete nonsense.

People have eyes and hands, and some have even lifted things, heavy things, maybe even been paid for it, Elf and Safety permitting.

That is not an alien spacecraft made of unusual materials to a mysterious design, it is an everyday object.

You do realise that in this country, we do crazy things like dissassemble and reassamble horse drawn artillery pieces, carrying all the individual heavy awkwardly shaped bits over an obstacle course? In a race against another team?

Well, some of us do.

 

[Falcon1200]

That is not an alien spacecraft made of unusual materials to a mysterious design, it is an everyday object.

This is a large, heavy object in an awkward and unsafe position. There would be a serious risk to those attempting to lift it and those railway staff responsible for its removal, who contrary to popular belief of some on here do actually know what they are doing, would not consider such a risky method, not for one second. I am astonished that the suggestion has even been made.

we do crazy things like dissassemble and reassamble horse drawn artillery pieces, carrying all the individual heavy awkwardly shaped bits over an obstacle course? In a race against another team?

'We' do not; Selected military personnel do after extensive training and rehearsal. A pointless comparison.

 

[Harpo]

You do realise that in this country, we do crazy things like dissassemble and reassamble horse drawn artillery pieces, carrying all the individual heavy awkwardly shaped bits over an obstacle course? In a race against another team?


Well, some of us do.

Just how well would you expect a random assortment of people off the street to cope with that without any previous training or an intense fitness programme?

Your artillery races are meticulously planned, trained for and doubtless well risk assessed too with everyone ending their day without serious injury.

Elf an safety isn’t always completely obvious.

 

[edwin_m]

You missed the main point - basic physics means lifting a weight of 800kg from the ground to a platform, is totally different to merely righting that weight, when one corner of it is already at platform level.

It might reduce the weight to be lifted but it also reduces the amount of space for people to position themselves round it. And there is a risk it will slip off the platform when being lifted, and fall onto some of the people who are now unable to support it.

Their "well thought out plan" would involve mechanical lifting.

 

[Ediswan]

... artillery races are meticulously planned, trained for and doubtless well risk assessed too with everyone ending their day without serious injury.

Not always, fingers were lost.

 

[Haywain]

Not always, fingers were lost.

Maybe that's not being considered a serious injury?

 

[Magrar]

Are we now so witless as a nation that we literally canoot fathom how to ensure that one single wheel that remains on the platform, does not move a single millimetre toward the edge, while people are in the trackbed?

That we could not even plan or rehearse such a thing as a drawing board exercise, to establish whether to go the next step and, eurgh, step down into the track, near a heavy object in an awkward position, and assess things like grip and positioning.

Is this even remotely the same country that birthed Brunel and Stephenson? Is this even the same industry? How many apprentices and workers did they actually kill or seriously injure as a part of their everyday business, the business of doing things never been done before?

I bet it wasn't nearly as many as died as a matter of ROUTINE down a coal mine to get the fuel to power their machinery, well into the 20th Century, even in the 70s and 80s. Why? Because engineers know what they are doing. It's a profession for a reason.

They do not see a heavy object in an awkward position as an inherently deadly thing. It's not going to explode, and it quite clearly found itself in a stable position all by itself, as tends to happen in this universe of matter and gravity.

They see it as a problem to be solved, using established techniques and cold hard maths and science. It's clearly physically liftable by humans, without causing injury. Everything else, such as footing and method, is plannable and actionable with control.

I despair I really do, especially since quite obviously we were never talking here about random people off the street, but people who we are told, "do actually know what they are doing".

Doing what, is the obvious question.

 

[josh-j]

People have eyes and hands, and some have even lifted things, heavy things, maybe even been paid for it, Elf and Safety permitting.

That is not an alien spacecraft made of unusual materials to a mysterious design, it is an everyday object.

You do realise that in this country, we do crazy things like dissassemble and reassamble horse drawn artillery pieces, carrying all the individual heavy awkwardly shaped bits over an obstacle course? In a race against another team?

Well, some of us do.

We also, in this country, removed the buggy from the track without any impact on passenger services. You're only making a big deal of it because you want to have a go at H&S.

edit: And re your latest post - yes we did manage that! It just didn't happen immediately. And it didn't need to happen immediately. So...

 

[AlterEgo]

We also, in this country, removed the buggy from the track without any impact on passenger services. You're only making a big deal of it because you want to have a go at H&S.

Well quite. Wait until they find out the Royal Tournament they refer to hasn't been around since 1999 as well. And we gave Hong Kong back too!

The buggy was not causing a problem with station capacity or safety and was not going to be moved by a gang of employees (who would otherwise be doing what?) so some online grump could feel a sense of national pride or whatever. It was fine to remain there, not harming anyone, until the line closed overnight and it could be moved mechanically.

 

[cats_five]

Just how well would you expect a random assortment of people off the street to cope with that without any previous training or an intense fitness programme?

Your artillery races are meticulously planned, trained for and doubtless well risk assessed too with everyone ending their day without serious injury.

Elf an safety isn’t always completely obvious.

And sometimes there were serious injuries in training and competition.

 

[Statto]

Paddington station announcement

The next buggy to go from platform 11 is the 13.00 GWR buggy service to Bristol Temple Meads, calling at Reading, Didcot Parkway, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa, & Bristol Temple Meads.

 

[londonteacher]

Are we now so witless as a nation that we literally canoot fathom how to ensure that one single wheel that remains on the platform, does not move a single millimetre toward the edge, while people are in the trackbed?

That we could not even plan or rehearse such a thing as a drawing board exercise, to establish whether to go the next step and, eurgh, step down into the track, near a heavy object in an awkward position, and assess things like grip and positioning.

Is this even remotely the same country that birthed Brunel and Stephenson? Is this even the same industry? How many apprentices and workers did they actually kill or seriously injure as a part of their everyday business, the business of doing things never been done before?

I bet it wasn't nearly as many as died as a matter of ROUTINE down a coal mine to get the fuel to power their machinery, well into the 20th Century, even in the 70s and 80s. Why? Because engineers know what they are doing. It's a profession for a reason.

They do not see a heavy object in an awkward position as an inherently deadly thing. It's not going to explode, and it quite clearly found itself in a stable position all by itself, as tends to happen in this universe of matter and gravity.

They see it as a problem to be solved, using established techniques and cold hard maths and science. It's clearly physically liftable by humans, without causing injury. Everything else, such as footing and method, is plannable and actionable with control.

I despair I really do, especially since quite obviously we were never talking here about random people off the street, but people who we are told, "do actually know what they are doing".

Doing what, is the obvious question.

If you are so against this country then nothing is stopping you from staying here. I wouldn’t stay somewhere if I was as unhappy as your post suggests.

There was no impact to the service and the buggy was removed at a time that caused the least disruption. I would say well done National Rail and GWR for resolving an issue in this way.

 

[Harpo]

And sometimes there were serious injuries in training and competition.

Showing that even with intense training and drilling for a manual task there can still be risks.