'Rail defect' causing cancellations to Moorgate trains

[rmHawk765]

RTT has been showing many trains out of Moorgate slap-bang in the middle of the peak over the last few days cancelled due to a 'rail defect'. Recently (and right now in fact) there was disruption due to a safety inspection between Alexandra Palace and Hertford North (a bizzarely unspecific area) and a signalling failure in the Moorgate tunnels shown on NR disruption reports. Does anyone know where exactly the issue is?

Today the evening peak service sorry, the heat has gotten to me, has completely collapsed. Yesterday the morning peak was essentially gone. Absolutely outrageous that neither GTR nor NR have given any specific reason why a busy London commuter route has been progressively ceasing to exist.

 

[saismee]

a safety inspection between Alexandra Palace and Hertford North (a bizzarely unspecific area)

This usually means a vulnerable person near the railway, hence the unspecificity.

 

[KNN]

We're in the middle of an almost unprecedented summer of hot weather and there were two passenger derailments in two days, do you blame people for being cautious?

 

[rmHawk765]

We're in the middle of an almost unprecedented summer of hot weather and there were two passenger derailments in two days, do you blame people for being cautious?

No, but I'd like a bit more information as to what is actually going on and I'm certainly not alone there... I'd very much rather have drivers report everything and be cautious but GTR's attitude to information in disruption just doesn't cut it when you've got thousands of passengers that can't get home *just because*. If there's an issue with the rails, so be it, why not just say that?

This usually means a vulnerable person near the railway, hence the unspecificity.

I do understand, but are the RTT cancellation reasons trustworthy enough? They don't suggest anything related to trespass.

The issue is that this allows GTR to get away with running no services down the Hertford Loop even if technically that is possible. Yesterday there were was nothing in the evening. On Friday most of the morning peak disappeared. On Thursday it was the same in the evening. And what really striked me was that the NR information said they were running Stevenage services via Welwyn... what on earth is the point? The other issue here is that no matter where the issue physically is, it also causes the entire Welwyn stopping service to break down in the peaks where the crews interwork the two branches. So it would be great to know what the issue actually is.

 

[Lockwood]

No, but I'd like a bit more information as to what is actually going on and I'm certainly not alone there... I'd very much rather have drivers report everything and be cautious but GTR's attitude to information in disruption just doesn't cut it when you've got thousands of passengers that can't get home *just because*. If there's an issue with the rails, so be it, why not just say that?

The age old debate...

"Hello, this is Dave, your driver speaking. We are currently held at AB123 which is showing a danger aspect. This is because Bob, driving 2F13 consisting of 377123 and 377321, reported a quite rough ride between a point 1 mile and 4 chains and 1 mile 7 chains past Great Fartingborough North. We have recently had multiple derailments across the network, so we are just waiting for the signaller to let us proceed at caution able to stop short of any obstructions through the affected section and make sure that everything on the track is how it should be."

That has far too much information that most people won't care about. Also, that message might instill some fear and panic in other passengers who are being made aware of the risk that their train may not complete its journey.

 

[saismee]

I do understand, but are the RTT cancellation reasons trustworthy enough? They don't suggest anything related to trespass.

What date and time was it?

 

[800001]

This usually means a vulnerable person near the railway, hence the unspecificity.

Never heard of safety inspection being used for a vulnerable person on or near the tracks, that is 99.9% described as 'trespasser' or 'emergency services dealing with an incident'.

Safety inspection is utilised for exactly what it says. Checking the safety of the line (track, overhead power lines etc).

 

[saismee]

Never heard of safety inspection being used for a vulnerable person on or near the tracks, that is 99.9% described as 'trespasser' or 'emergency services dealing with an incident'.

I've heard it many times on my network, usually when the vulnerable person is on a platform or near a level crossing rather than trespassing on the line itself.

 

[Class315]

RTT has been showing many trains out of Moorgate slap-bang in the middle of the peak over the last few days cancelled due to a 'rail defect'. Recently (and right now in fact) there was disruption due to a safety inspection between Alexandra Palace and Hertford North (a bizzarely unspecific area) and a signalling failure in the Moorgate tunnels shown on NR disruption reports. Does anyone know where exactly the issue is?

Today the evening peak service sorry, the heat has gotten to me, has completely collapsed. Yesterday the morning peak was essentially gone. Absolutely outrageous that neither GTR nor NR have given any specific reason why a busy London commuter route has been progressively ceasing to exist.

Over the last couple of days, there have been a number of track defects reported, yesterday afternoon another one was reported. It took a while for P-way to board the affected area.

The Hertford is riddled with ESR’s in both directions, the various defects in various locations have prevented GTR from implementing shuttles.

There was a vulnerable person at Watton, which caused caution; as well as a trespass at Oakleigh Park yesterday evening..

 

[Bow Fell]

I’ve never used it as that in a delay reason or as a reason in Tyrell. I wouldn’t ask my team of Information Controllers to use that reason either. It’s a “trespasser on the railway”

 

[saismee]

I’ve never used it as that in a delay reason or as a reason in Tyrell. I wouldn’t ask my team of Information Controllers to use that reason either. It’s a “trespasser on the railway”

I suppose an actual safety inspection is much more likely at the moment.

I have certainly seen a train be delayed for "safety checks being made" after a caution was imposed due to a vulnerable person on the platform.

 

[sprunt]

The age old debate...

"Hello, this is Dave, your driver speaking. We are currently held at AB123 which is showing a danger aspect. This is because Bob, driving 2F13 consisting of 377123 and 377321, reported a quite rough ride between a point 1 mile and 4 chains and 1 mile 7 chains past Great Fartingborough North. We have recently had multiple derailments across the network, so we are just waiting for the signaller to let us proceed at caution able to stop short of any obstructions through the affected section and make sure that everything on the track is how it should be."

That has far too much information that most people won't care about. Also, that message might instill some fear and panic in other passengers who are being made aware of the risk that their train may not complete its journey.

You're aware of the concept of a happy medium, I presume?

 

[Intercity_225]

The age old debate...

"Hello, this is Dave, your driver speaking. We are currently held at AB123 which is showing a danger aspect. This is because Bob, driving 2F13 consisting of 377123 and 377321, reported a quite rough ride between a point 1 mile and 4 chains and 1 mile 7 chains past Great Fartingborough North. We have recently had multiple derailments across the network, so we are just waiting for the signaller to let us proceed at caution able to stop short of any obstructions through the affected section and make sure that everything on the track is how it should be."

That has far too much information that most people won't care about. Also, that message might instill some fear and panic in other passengers who are being made aware of the risk that their train may not complete its journey.

Or, they could say:

"Hello, this is your driver speaking. We have heard reports from another train of a rough ride in this area, so we may be running at slow speed in this area. As soon as we can get back to the normal speed, we will. Sorry for the delay."

 

[KNN]

You're aware of the concept of a happy medium, I presume?

When I worked for customer services there were complaints whatever happened.

Current company excluded, most people who say they want to know what's going on seem to mean they want to know how long they'll be stuck.

The answer to that is very hard to quantify.

 

[Lockwood]

You're aware of the concept of a happy medium, I presume?

I think that we've had discussions here where people almost expect the driver's inside leg measurement

 

[rmHawk765]

The Hertford is riddled with ESR’s in both directions, the various defects in various locations have prevented GTR from implementing shuttles.

Indeed, my local station had first a 30/60 TSR/ESR, then 20/50 and now 20 for all trains (in the Down direction only)... though this one shouldn't really cause any delays as the next station is quite close.

I think that we've had discussions here where people almost expect the driver's inside leg measurement

No, but as this thread shows 'safety inspection' is somewhat vague. GTR could have just said that there are loads of rail defects on the line and I'm sure all the passengers, myself included, would then with no issue accept the fact that these things can't be fixed in a day.

 

[bramling]

When I worked for customer services there were complaints whatever happened.

Current company excluded, most people who say they want to know what's going on seem to mean they want to know how long they'll be stuck.

The answer to that is very hard to quantify.

I’m not sure this holds true for everyone.

Most commuters will have experienced the full range of potential incidents during their commuting life. So they will know how long a fatality typically takes to resolve, et cetera.

There is nothing more infuriating than staff being obstructive and just giving out vague stuff like “you need to leave now” or “there’s been an incident”, and this is the golden route to staff receiving the flat end of tongues.

Most people are pretty understanding if given an actual explanation of exactly what the problem is, and what is being done to resolve it. Not everyone for sure, but the majority.

 

[sprunt]

I think that we've had discussions here where people almost expect the driver's inside leg measurement

Then they need to understand the concept of a happy medium too.

 

[Broucek]

Current company excluded, most people who say they want to know what's going on seem to mean they want to know how long they'll be stuck.

The answer to that is very hard to quantify.

Some (accurate) info is better than none. Even "I don't know how long we will be here for" is a useful piece of information in helping me decide what I need to do next

 

[saismee]

If a route is blocked and passengers need to take a diversion like say, Norwich to London is blocked, but Norwich to Cambridge to London is possible, I will always suggest the diversion if the wait is unknown. Yes, you may end up more delayed than if you had waited, but at least you are on the move.

I obviously give people their options and let them decide, but the rule is to never check which was faster after the fact. Just submit DR for what you took. At least the delay caused by diverting is a knowable value.

Of course, when you're actually stuck on a train you don't have that luxury.

 

[Broucek]

If a route is blocked and passengers need to take a diversion like say, Norwich to London is blocked, but Norwich to Cambridge to London is possible, I will always suggest the diversion if the wait is unknown. Yes, you may end up more delayed than if you had waited, but at least you are on the move.

As a passenger, that's exactly what I'd like to know

And yes, I'd always rather be on the move whether train delays or car!

 

[saismee]

And yes, I'd always rather be on the move whether train delays or car!

It's especially helpful for whoever is meeting you on the other end, be it a taxi, family, or an airplane. If you've planned enough time padding in then taking the (potentially) slower but safer option will be better.