What life expectancy do you think the present and new build LU 'tube stock' trains will have?

[ACDC]

Moderator note: split from

2024 Tube Stock (Siemens Inspiro London)

Mod Note: Deliveries have now begun and so you can find a list here of which units have been delivered. Today, Siemens’ social media accounts have presented the final design of the new Piccadilly line tube trains. Here is the press release with a lot of information and a few pictures...

www.railforums.co.uk

Do you think any of these new trains will last 50 or 60 years? What happened to good old British manufacturing?

 

[AM9]

Do you think any of these new trains will last 50 or 60 years? What happened to good old British manufacturing?

What, like sagging 155/153s, rusty 156s, the unreliable (and sagging) 442s, - all examples of good old 'British manufacturing'?

 

[GFE]

What, like sagging 155/153s, rusty 156s, the unreliable (and sagging) 442s, - all examples of good old 'British manufacturing'?

Not forgetting the central line 92 stock with corrosion & reliability issues!

Unfortunately British Engineering Design & Manufacturing has been in general decline for many decades.

Note the "useful life" of items is often defined by spares availability and manufacturers "updating" their product range, so heavy refurbishment (and overhaul) will become more common to achieve a long life

 

[Silent]

not forgetting the central line 92 stock with corrosion & reliabilty issues !
Unfortunately British Engineering Design & Manufacturing has been in general decline for many decades.

Note the "useful life" of items is often defined by spares availability and manufacturers "updating" their product range.
So heavy refurbishment (and overhaul) will become more common to achieve a long life

To be fair the 95/6 and s stock look like they would outlast the 92 stock.

 

[AM9]

To be fair the 95/6 and s stock look like they would outlast the 92 stock.

Made by Alsthom, - a French led manufacturer.

 

[Silent]

Made by Alsthom, - a French led manufacturer.

Ok, but I think class 165’s are fairing better than 92 stock and I am sure they were British built.

 

[Zomboid]

Every country can build good stuff (I don't think there's been too much trouble with British built Hondas, for example), and every country can build junk (My first car was an Austin Metro, which wasn't what you'd call durable). The quality/ lifespan depends what the spec is and how much you're willing to pay.

 

[Sorcerer]

Siemens have a pretty good track record (no pun intended) when it comes to building trains in the UK, so I expect these new tube trains could very well last up to forty years. Quite possibly as long as the older stock they're replacing if we really pushed it, but we shouldn't really be doing that anyway.

 

[bramling]

To be fair the 95/6 and s stock look like they would outlast the 92 stock.

95 stock could probably go on forever with the right maintenance, not so sure about the 96 stock though. They are surprisingly inferior compared to their newer sibling.

 

[Silent]

95 stock could probably go on forever with the right maintenance, not so sure about the 96 stock though. They are surprisingly inferior compared to their newer sibling.

Maybe mechanically but they look cleaner.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2026 ==

Siemens have a pretty good track record (no pun intended) when it comes to building trains in the UK, so I expect these new tube trains could very well last up to forty years. Quite possibly as long as the older stock they're replacing if we really pushed it, but we shouldn't really be doing that anyway.

They visually look well built, the 24ts.

 

[A S Leib]

In terms of present stock, might the 2009 Stock go earlier than after forty years in service if this sort of summer happens every three or four years – or more frequently – being the last ones built without air conditioning or cooling?

 

[boiledbeans2]

What, like sagging 155/153s, rusty 156s, the unreliable (and sagging) 442s, - all examples of good old 'British manufacturing'?

Yes, see my post #45 and the following post #46 in this thread:

I See Spanish Trains (CAF), Japanese Trains (Hitachi) & Swiss Trains (Stadler): What Happened Britain?

I don't think those trains are "horrors" given that the 150, 158 and Networkers are all running still, with the 155, 319 and 321 operating with some modifications. If anything that's a sign of some robust trains. With the electrics you may have a point. But it's worth remembering that the 15x's...

www.railforums.co.uk

The first few Class 800s, fully built in Japan rarely give issues. The remainder of the fleet, assembled in UK (and Italy) are a different story.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2026 ==

In terms of present stock, might the 2009 Stock go earlier than after forty years in service if this sort of summer happens every three or four years – or more frequently – being the last ones built without air conditioning or cooling?

The 09ts are simpler in design compared to the other LU stock. No cabin A/C or heating. No gangways. No tripcocks & de-icers. Electric doors. Rare exposure to sunlight. I think they can go on for a long time.

Whether it will be replaced early is a political issue... For the Mayor to allocate funds to TfL...

 

[Silent]

Yes, see my post #45 and the following post #46 in this thread:

I See Spanish Trains (CAF), Japanese Trains (Hitachi) & Swiss Trains (Stadler): What Happened Britain?

I don't think those trains are "horrors" given that the 150, 158 and Networkers are all running still, with the 155, 319 and 321 operating with some modifications. If anything that's a sign of some robust trains. With the electrics you may have a point. But it's worth remembering that the 15x's...

www.railforums.co.uk

The first few Class 800s, fully built in Japan rarely give issues. The remainder of the fleet, assembled in UK (and Italy) are a different story.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2026 ==


The 09ts are simpler in design compared to the other LU stock. No cabin A/C or heating. No gangways. No tripcocks & de-icers. Electric doors. Rare exposure to sunlight. I think they can go on for a long time.

Whether it will be replaced early is a political issue... For the Mayor to allocate funds to TfL...

I think just like certain stations have been redesigned on the Victoria line to deal with capacity, to have the same stock running whilst summers get warmer would mean more infrastructure works to cool it down. I think the frequency of the line is partly a cover up for the fact that the stations can’t carry as many people as they do. But I guess the same could be said for the new air cooled trains, we need them but it is because if the fact the tunnels haven’t been designed to be well ventilated or cooled.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

95 stock could probably go on forever with the right maintenance, not so sure about the 96 stock though. They are surprisingly inferior compared to their newer sibling.

The 1995TS examples I rode yesterday were rather grubby internally and externally. The seats were caked in tunnel dust and the linoleum flooring had engrained build up of muck. Also the cars I was on had A few luminaires out. Do you really think the 1995s are being maintained well?

To contrast the 1996s I rode were in a far far better condition internally and externally. I appreciate the Jubilee may be a less demanding line than the Northern, but they were in so much better condition.

Both the stocks have quite noticeable jerks when stopping and starting, thanks to the aggressive SelTrac ATO system. The jerks were far more pronounced on the Northern Line.

Am I right that the train fleet of 1996TS are worked harder on the Jubilee out of any other line? They work the most mileage? If that is so, the trains feel from a passenger perspective in very good condition. Even though their last referb was nearly a decade ago.

 

[Recessio]

The 1995TS examples I rode yesterday were rather grubby internally and externally. The seats were caked in tunnel dust and the linoleum flooring had engrained build up of muck. Also the cars I was on had A few luminaires out. Do you really think the 1995s are being maintained well?

To contrast the 1996s I rode were in a far far better condition internally and externally. I appreciate the Jubilee may be a less demanding line than the Northern, but they were in so much better condition.

Both the stocks have quite noticeable jerks when stopping and starting, thanks to the aggressive SelTrac ATO system. The jerks were far more pronounced on the Northern Line.

Am I right that the train fleet of 1996TS are worked harder on the Jubilee out of any other line? They work the most mileage? If that is so, the trains feel from a passenger perspective in very good condition. Even though their last referb was nearly a decade ago.

The interiors of the 95s are a bit grubby, but I'm assuming that's because the maintenance of the traction is a higher priority than deep cleaning - a dirty unit isn't necessarily unreliable, and a clean unit could still be an absolute bucket of bolts mechanically. My understanding is that the 95s have proven to be very reliable and just haven't had an internal refurb in quite a while, whereas all of the 96s have been internally refurbished within the last decade.

The 96s are worked very hard, I believe the cracking incident a few years ago relates to the increased frequencies and acceleration/deceleration from the introduction of ATO. Despite the name below the sole bar a lot of the traction and electronics is an older design than the 95s.

 

[RUK]

Ok, but I think class 165’s are fairing better than 92 stock and I am sure they were British built.

Both the Class 165s and the 1992 Stock were made by BREL in the U.K. - the 1992 Stock were made slightly later than the Class 165s. The S Stock were made in the same factory as the 1992 Stock, by Bombardier, the Canadian company which bought what BREL was bought by/became - ABB, then ADtranz. The 1995 and 1996 Stocks were made by Alsthom.

 

[Recessio]

Ok, but I think class 165’s are fairing better than 92 stock and I am sure they were British built.

Class 165s have had a far easier life than the intensive service the 92s have to run - they also don't constantly switch between hot dry underground tunnels and the cold wet outdoors (in winter) multiple times a day.

 

[Silent]

The central line stock has a hard life the former stock were replaced before the current age of 1992 stock trains.