“Buy before you board” - policy where ticket buying facilities are a long way away from the train

[Wallsendmag]

All the LNER TVMs have the same function when paying by card.

 

[skyhigh]

I wonder whether any true TOD only ones are still in use anywhere?

There is at least one, at Leeds inside the barrier line.

 

[Harpers Tate]

I did contact my MP. The entirely predictable response is below. I suppose we'll have to await a death or serious injury......

Thank you for your email regarding concerns raised about the difficulties some customers experience when purchasing tickets at Kiveton Park station.

It is important to note the vast majority of rail tickets are now purchased through digital channels. Ticket vending machine (TVM) sales account for less than 5% of total ticket sales, reflecting a wider industry trend as customers increasingly choose digital options for their convenience and accessibility. As a result, the installation of additional TVMs is not currently part of Northern's plans, particularly given the continued decline in usage.

That said, we recognise that not all customers wish to purchase tickets digitally and that some passengers may face challenges when buying tickets before travel. Customers are expected to purchase a valid ticket prior to boarding wherever possible. However, where a customer is unable to do so for a genuine reason, such as reduced mobility or other mitigating circumstances, tickets can be purchased from the conductor onboard the train.

Our Revenue Protection colleagues are trained to exercise appropriate discretion in situations where customers have been genuinely unable to purchase a ticket before travel.
While we appreciate that customers may occasionally be running late for their train, this would not be considered sufficient reason for travelling without first purchasing a valid ticket.

Please reassure Mr //redacted // that Northern is committed to delivering excellent customer service and supporting customers with any ticketing queries or concerns they may have. If Mr //redacted // has a specific reason that prevents him from purchasing a ticket before boarding, our colleagues will seek to assist where appropriate. It may also be helpful to make him aware of the range of alternative purchasing options available, including the Northern website and mobile app, which provide a quick and convenient way to purchase tickets without the need to cross the level crossing at the station.

I hope this information is helpful in preparing your response to Mr //redacted // and provides assurance that Northern remains committed to delivering a fair, accessible, and high quality service for all customers.

Should you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me directly.


Kind regards
//redacted //

Constituency Assistant to //redacted //
Member of Parliament for //redacted //

 

[Wallsendmag]

Already happening - I was working on removing LNER machines 5 years ago. We cut the number of machines by around a third

And we've taken 30 off that number

 

[Haywain]

And we've taken 30 off that number

Which I probably would have done if the finances had made it worthwhile at the time.

 

[Meole]

Online purchase is always available, TVM will no doubt be maintained less and eventually withdrawn, they are also subject to vandalism in some locations, rather like airlines going digital and ceasing paper boarding passes, if you want to travel adapt to the future.

 

[Harpers Tate]

..... you want to travel adapt to the future.

I personally have no problem with that ....... except:

a) if I buy at home, discover at the station that my train is delayed/cancelled and I therefore no longer need or wish to travel, the process to obtain a refund (oh, and where's the compensation?) is far less easy than to purchase

b) if I wait till I am there and buy an electronic ticket, and my device decides to be awkward at the wrong moment, then, as with the "awkward" TVM location matter, combine that with significant immediate consequences of same, we have an issue. Yes - no ticket (without good cause) = penalty. Yes, e-ticket on device. Either is fine in insolation, but not together in a contingency situation. Can one appeal? Probably, but now we're involved in what may be a lengthy bureaucratic process.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

b) if I wait till I am there and buy an electronic ticket, and my device decides to be awkward at the wrong moment, then, as with the "awkward" TVM location matter, combine that with significant immediate consequences of same, we have an issue. Yes - no ticket (without good cause) = penalty. Yes, e-ticket on device. Either is fine in insolation, but not together in a contingency situation. Can one appeal? Probably, but now we're involved in what may be a lengthy bureaucratic process

What if you go to a TVM - and you've managed to break your credit card? Or to the ticket office with cash in your hand - and the clerk didn't show up for their shift so it's closed?

In principle, buying on your phone is no more or less prone to failure than any other way of buying a ticket. Whether in practice it's a bigger or smaller risk isn't something I have the knowledge for.

 

[sheff1]

Online purchase is always available,

No it isn't.

 

[Harpers Tate]

What if you go to a TVM - and you've managed to break your credit card? Or to the ticket office with cash in your hand - and the clerk didn't show up for their shift so it's closed?

In principle, buying on your phone is no more or less prone to failure than any other way of buying a ticket. Whether in practice it's a bigger or smaller risk isn't something I have the knowledge for.

If that happened to me I'd either
a) not travel or
b) discuss with the conductor before deciding whether or not to board.

Conversely, an unexpected equipment failure would give no immediate cause to take any action before boarding. And that's where you are at risk of penalty.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

If that happened to me I'd either
a) not travel or
b) discuss with the conductor before deciding whether or not to board.

Conversely, an unexpected equipment failure would give no immediate cause to take any action before boarding. And that's where you are at risk of penalty.

So why won't you talk to the guard if your phone fails?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Online purchase is always available

It isn't.

And, even where online purchase is available, it doesn't always mean that online fulfilment of the order is available.

In principle, buying on your phone is no more or less prone to failure than any other way of buying a ticket. Whether in practice it's a bigger or smaller risk isn't something I have the knowledge for.

Any method of fulfilment has a risk of failure. Your mobile phone might decide to brick itself, or it might suddenly lose power, or you might lose it or break it. Your paper ticket might fall out of your wallet or pocket, or the ink might smudge, or the ticket barrier might chew it up, or the TVM might say it has printed all the coupons when it hasn't.

I don't know if phones are more or less risky than paper tickets. It's probably all about personal circumstances. I've never lost my phone but I have lost a paper ticket before. At least e-tickets can (usually) be viewed on another device if needed; a lost paper ticket can't be retrieved.

 

[philthetube]

Sorry, cannot show this as a quote from my tablet, have managed this in the past?

This is from the letter posted by Harpers Tate. post 33


That said, we recognise that not all customers wish to purchase tickets digitally and that some passengers may face challenges when buying tickets before travel. Customers are expected to purchase a valid ticket prior to boarding wherever possible. However, where a customer is unable to do so for a genuine reason, such as reduced mobility or other mitigating circumstances, tickets can be purchased from the conductor onboard the train.

It is difficult to imagine anyone losing a court case where the railway put a fence preventing acess toi a ticket machine.

​

 

[Harpers Tate]

So why won't you talk to the guard if your phone fails?

That would help me exactly how if I reach a revenue check at a station exit? The point I am clearly failing to make is that one might board a train
.......at which point one is liable to be required to prove one has paid i.e. has a ticket.........
not knowing or expecting a digital failure. Until it happens.

Tell me that does not place one at risk of a penalty of some sort.

If one loses a paper ticket then it's their own carelessness.
If one fails to display a digital medium because of an unexpected digital failure there is no intent, carelessness or other involved. No "fault" on the passenger's part in reality. They have taken all reasonable steps to conform to the conditions.

 

[30907]

This was not my experience. The ticket machine on platform 1 is easily missed if you are using the platform 1 entrance, as you do not walk past the ticket machine before crossing the footbridge. I only noticed the ticket machine on platform 1 when I was already on platform 2.

Yes, the signage isn't brilliant but there is a step-free route of 100m or so to the TO and various machines?

There is also the added potential situation that the ticket office is sometimes closed, reducing a five platform station to just one ticket machine when it is. So TVM provision at Shipley is anything but sufficient!

Isnt there a machine by the ramp to P3/5? Not obvious from 2 though

(From memory, just check when I have time...