SWR cracking down on Vauxhall - Waterloo doughnuts/short fares - Also GTR

[Haywain]

I assume the booking engines can’t work out that an advance ticket using Saint Pancras/King’s Cross with a maltese cross doesn’t have to be read by Underground gates.

Booking engines have to abide by the route and fulfilment methods specified by the flow owner. They do not have any option to do otherwise (unless they happen to be called Trainline).

 

[Swedenorer]

Agreed.

So why shouldn't you be allowed to be issued E-Tickets under those circumstances?

A good question. I suppose there's a real danger of ending up with a repeat of Edmondson on the Southern all sorts elesewhere of 50 odd years ago!

 

[gembercannelle]

Do you really mean "happy" or 'consider reasonable and no more than could be expected'?

I would certainly have been unhappy about it if my daughter or son were evading fares and were prosecuted when aged 13, 19 or their current ages. It would fall short of my aspirations for them. However I would not feel that they were being treated unreasonably if that were to happen. I knew perfectly well what fare evasion was and that it should not be done by the age of 10, and so did they.

I mean would you find it justified?
We have fraud prevention training at my workplace. One thing highlighted there is that you cannot commit fraud accidentally, it ought to be intentional. The railway does not need to prove the intend.

Yesterday, I was travelling Shalford - Gatwick airport - Guildford to meet a friend. I bought a return e-ticket Guildford - Gatwick Airport while waiting on a platform at Shalford. It then occurred to be that the purchase was finalised after the train left Guildford. Was I trying to evade fare? Absolutely not. Did I have a valid ticket? Yes, always. However, if there was a ticket check, the officer could easily spot that the ticket was bought after departure...

 

[AlterEgo]

I mean would you find it justified?
We have fraud prevention training at my workplace. One thing highlighted there is that you cannot commit fraud accidentally, it ought to be intentional. The railway does not need to prove the intend.

It does if they want to bring a fraud case. But we are not talking about criminal fraud.

 

[The exile]

I mean would you find it justified?
We have fraud prevention training at my workplace. One thing highlighted there is that you cannot commit fraud accidentally, it ought to be intentional. The railway does not need to prove the intend.

Yesterday, I was travelling Shalford - Gatwick airport - Guildford to meet a friend. I bought a return e-ticket Guildford - Gatwick Airport while waiting on a platform at Shalford. It then occurred to be that the purchase was finalised after the train left Guildford. Was I trying to evade fare? Absolutely not. Did I have a valid ticket? Yes, always. However, if there was a ticket check, the officer could easily spot that the ticket was bought after departure...

Which would (potentially) be a ticketing offence (just like finding you’ve lost your paper ticket), but - crucially - not fraud.

 

[John R]

Which would (potentially) be a ticketing offence (just like finding you’ve lost your paper ticket), but - crucially - not fraud.

Is it an offence? Surely not if the ticket was bought before departure? Proving it might be more difficult though. I would take a picture of myself at the platform at the time the ticket was purchased as evidence in that situation.

 

[AlterEgo]

Is it an offence? Surely not if the ticket was bought before departure? Proving it might be more difficult though. I would take a picture of myself at the platform at the time the ticket was purchased as evidence in that situation.

The OP says the purchase did not complete until they got on board, and hence they did not have a ticket when they boarded.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

The OP says the purchase did not complete until they got on board, and hence they did not have a ticket when they boarded.

And to give chapter and verse from the byelaws as they currently stand from November 2025 (https://assets.publishing.service.g...8a54f8/dft-railway-byelaws-amendment-2025.pdf):

18. Ticketless travel in non-compulsory ticket areas
(1) In any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall
enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless that
person is carrying a valid ticket entitling them to travel.

 

[gembercannelle]

The OP says the purchase did not complete until they got on board, and hence they did not have a ticket when they boarded.

I boarded at Shalford, it is the next stop after Guildford. The ticket was bought before the train arrived to Shalford, but after it left Guildford. So I absolutely had a valid ticket at the time I boarded.

 

[The exile]

I boarded at Shalford, it is the next stop after Guildford. The ticket was bought before the train arrived to Shalford, but after it left Guildford. So I absolutely had a valid ticket at the time I boarded.

Ah yes - had overlooked that - as you say, definitely not an offence but hard to prove. However, as the onus of proof is on the railway, they would have to prove that you boarded tat Guildford (which you didn’t) rather than you having to prove you boarded at Shalford.

 

[TrenHotel]

I may have found a different version of this clampdown on e-tickets.

I’ve just tried to buy an anytime single from West Ham to Southend Central, while on the tube to West Ham (Jubilee Line disrupted today so wanted to stay flexible and I travel with a railcard) and it wouldn’t sell me a ticket for the 13.39 eight minutes before departure. Hmmm.

I selected the following departure (14.09), and it refused to sell me an e-ticket and told me I had to choose a station to collect it from. Not great when West Ham has no National Rail ticket machines.

Yet I tried this site’s booking engine, and it sold me an e-ticket for my original 13.39 of departure, now four minutes away. Very odd.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Oct 2026 ==

To make matters worse (sorry, this may be veering off topic), heading back from Westcliff, the c2c ticket machine wouldn’t sell me a paper single because it was demanding an alphanumeric code from my Annual Gold Card - there isn’t one. Crazy.

 

[kijeta]

I’ve just tried to buy an anytime single from West Ham to Southend Central, while on the tube to West Ham

From which retailer?

 

[TrenHotel]

From which retailer?

Southeastern, through their app.

 

[OscarH]

To make matters worse (sorry, this may be veering off topic), heading back from Westcliff, the c2c ticket machine wouldn’t sell me a paper single because it was demanding an alphanumeric code from my Annual Gold Card - there isn’t one. Crazy

Good start to the railcard validation trial then

 

[TrenHotel]

Good start to the railcard validation trial then

I just found the (closed) thread about it (happy for the mods to move that bit there). I used contactless in the end and will complain to c2c.

 

[AlterEgo]

I just found the (closed) thread about it (happy for the mods to move that bit there). I used contactless in the end and will complain to c2c.

Did you try putting any old number in?

 

[TrenHotel]

Did you try putting any old number in?

No - I didn’t know that was possible and went to seek help from a member of staff, who apologised and said he couldn’t help.

 

[Starmill]

Did you try putting any old number in?

Is that safe? Personally I'd be more comfortable joining the train with nothing than with a ticket for a railcard reference number that I'd just invented. Usually such systems won't accept 0000000, so you'd have to actually invent one. Of course we don't know if the number shows through on the ticket barcode or not.

 

[Adam Williams]

Of course we don't know if the number shows through on the ticket barcode or not.

I don't believe there is any proposal for this to be happening.

 

[Starmill]

I don't believe there is any proposal for this to be happening.

I also didn't believe that the ticket sale would be refused if the validation were unsuccessful. At least not for quite some time from now.

Of course, having paid full price the OP is at least in a strong position.