Avanti cancellations - is it always this bad?

[SECR 65]

Still a dissapointing number of Euston departures canned for traincrew this morning - including two consecutive Manchester runs. Luckliy the train I need is OK!......

 

[riceuten]

That’s exac

That’s exactly what Northern did a few years ago in the north west, made very little difference still loads of cancellations at the weekend especially during school holidays, major sports events or when the weather forecast is good…!

Full timetable still not restored, ask the residents of Congleton!

I see much social media enraged when trains are cancelled due to staff shortages and the Great British public blame...the train drivers. "How DARE they take leave - they are paid [insert vastly inflated figure here] - it's just pressing a button, isn't it? Bully boy trade unions, isn't it ? Bring on self-driving trains etc etc"

They never blame the companies concerned when they were shedding staff and training/recruiting insufficient numbers to replace people leaving or retiring

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Aug 2026 ==

It’s refusing to do overtime. Remember too that local depots also have a limit on the amount of odd leave days that must be guaranteed. This is regardless of whether those turns can be covered or not.

How awful staff should have a choice, eh ? They should be chained to their trains...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Aug 2026 ==

Once they got the shiny new trains that came with the franchise, sure, they were decently competent. Prior to that, not so much. And it was Virgin that closed their traincrew depot at Carlisle leading to the regular collapse of services when there's a problem north of Preston, something that happens far too often today.

This, in spades. I received something of the order of £350 one year in compensation. A/C that wouldn't function above 28 degrees C. Trains regularly breaking down. They let a lot of staff go in train maintenance and the service suffered accordingly.

 

[DarloRich]

it is summer holidays, nice weather and a service running on voluntary overtime. It happens every year and will happen every year until something different is worked out T&C wise.

 

[riceuten]

it is summer holidays, nice weather and a service running on voluntary overtime. It happens every year and will happen every year until something different is worked out T&C wise.

Indeed. And there is no compelling reason for companies to take action, other than, you know, customer satisfaction. What fresh hell is that ?

 

[DarloRich]

Indeed. And there is no compelling reason for companies to take action, other than, you know, customer satisfaction. What fresh hell is that ?

cost v benefit. Cost wins!

 

[riceuten]

cost v benefit. Cost wins!

As Private Eye would say "Trebles all round!"

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

cost v benefit. Cost wins!

A continuing legacy of Thatcherism. Until we shake off this mentality we will continue to have mediocre public services.

 

[dk1]

How awful staff should have a choice, eh ? They should be chained to their trains...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Aug 2026 ==

I have no idea why you put that unless you have completely misunderstood my meaning. I was a driver until very recently and merely explaining the rostering agreements.

 

[Dr Hoo]

This, in spades. I received something of the order of £350 one year in compensation. A/C that wouldn't function above 28 degrees C. Trains regularly breaking down. They let a lot of staff go in train maintenance and the service suffered accordingly.

That’s interesting. Can you provide more details of how extensive the ‘letting go’ was and how long it’s been going on? We’re the DfT aware or complicit?

Thanks

 

[Peter0124]

It seems a decent chunk of Avanti's fleet is in reverse formation today aswell.

 

[AndrewE]

That’s interesting. Can you provide more details of how extensive the ‘letting go’ was and how long it’s been going on? We’re the DfT aware or complicit?

Thanks

I do remember that Longsight's "ownership" changed, a lot of staff were "let go" and the maintenance took a dive.
(I was also told - elsewhere I think - that a particularly determined/belligerent/intransigent shop steward left the scene at that point too...)

 

[800002]

And then there are the hastily arranged 'staff BBQs' when the weather is nice...
Certain operators who retain, for example, the ability to hand back a Sunday turn as late as Thursday or Friday, and find themselves with a sudden shortage of train crew on a Friday morning for the weekend.

 

[dk1]

And then there are the hastily arranged 'staff BBQs' when the weather is nice...
Certain operators who retain, for example, the ability to hand back a Sunday turn as late as Thursday or Friday, and find themselves with a sudden shortage of train crew on a Friday morning for the weekend.

Is this BBQ thing a myth? In all my years of working on the railway it’s been talked about but I have never known a mass drivers group meet up anytime let alone just because the weather is nice. Most don’t mix and there’s others who wouldn’t socialise much in the messroom let alone when off duty.

 

[class 9]

And then there are the hastily arranged 'staff BBQs' when the weather is nice...
Certain operators who retain, for example, the ability to hand back a Sunday turn as late as Thursday or Friday, and find themselves with a sudden shortage of train crew on a Friday morning for the weekend.

This is a result of the private TOCs not addressing the challenge of getting Sunday's in the working week,"kicking the can down the road" for years and years, putting in the too difficult/ too expensive pile!
Before the anti Union brigade pile in, it's been Union policy ASLEF at least, for Sunday's in the working week since privatisation.

 

[dk1]

This is a result of the private TOCs not addressing the challenge of getting Sunday's in the working week,"kicking the can down the road" for years and years, putting in the too difficult/ too expensive pile!
Before the anti Union brigade pile in, it's been Union policy ASLEF at least, for Sunday's in the working week since privatisation.

Which is why it surprised me that Greater Anglia offered Sundays in the working week from next year with a very hefty pay rise when they have absolutely no problem covering Sunday duties. Most of my ex-colleagues are pinching themselves at their sudden good fortune.

 

[AndrewE]

Which is why it surprised me that Greater Anglia offered Sundays in the working week from next year with a very hefty pay rise when they have absolutely no problem covering Sunday duties. Most of my ex-colleagues are pinching themselves at their sudden good fortune.

The cynic in me asks whether it could be because Greater Anglia disproportionately serves the City? (and Civil Servants live out there too?)

 

[dk1]

The cynic in me asks whether it could be because Greater Anglia disproportionately serves the City? (and Civil Servants live out there too?)

I very much doubt that. Possibly linked to being one of the lowest paid driver groups that regularly haemorrhage staff on the West side. Also seen as the model operator with its reliability and performance along with just being extremely well run. From what I recently read in MR magazine it also had the highest growth of any rail operator at 10% in the first quarter of 2026.

 

[800002]

Is this BBQ thing a myth?

No.
I'm afraid it is not.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Aug 2026 ==

This is a result of the private TOCs not addressing the challenge of getting Sunday's in the working week,"kicking the can down the road" for years and years, putting in the too difficult/ too expensive pile!

Yes. Agreed.

Easier / cheaper to have status quo.

Will not fly in the future, one hopes.

 

[dk1]

No.
I'm afraid it is not.

Well I’m yet to see any personal evidence apart from small group meet ups or just the general work do’s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Aug 2026 ==

Easier / cheaper to have status quo.

Will not fly in the future, one hopes.

Which makes it all the more suspicious that the deal was offered to GA drivers this year.

 

[800002]

Well I’m yet to see any personal evidence apart from small group meet ups or just the general work do’s.

Two or three drivers can make all the difference in certain tocs.
I'm not saying it's universal or widespread, though. But if a small group from each depot get together that's 10 or 12 drivers...

Which makes it all the more suspicious that the deal was offered to GA drivers this year.

Do wonder if the silent partner (DfT) have done some sort of 'long term' calculations.... they like doing that every now and again.

 

[riceuten]

That’s interesting. Can you provide more details of how extensive the ‘letting go’ was and how long it’s been going on? We’re the DfT aware or complicit?

Thanks

As I recall - this was pre-Pendolino, it was a substantial proportion of the train maintenance staff - I'll see if I can find the Guardian article. This was prior to the Department taking a more hands on role in managing the franchise.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2026 ==

I have no idea why you put that unless you have completely misunderstood my meaning. I was a driver until very recently and merely explaining the rostering agreements.

I think you misunderstood - or more likely that I wasn't clear - that this was the expectation of the Great British public that staff shouldn't be allowed to go on leave when there were staff shortages.

 

[dk1]

I think you misunderstood - or more likely that I wasn't clear - that this was the expectation of the Great British public that staff shouldn't be allowed to go on leave when there were staff shortages.

Totally not what I meant. If it’s in their staffing agreements then absolutely they should be granted their leave regardless of whether cover is available and trains are cancelled as a result. Been there so many times.

 

[Swedenorer]

I think you misunderstood - or more likely that I wasn't clear - that this was the expectation of the Great British public that staff shouldn't be allowed to go on leave when there were staff shortages.

There is no such attitude - the GBP take the quite reasonable view that any business should not make an offer of service they could not staff. They don't much care whose fault it is when that doesn't happen.

 

[Dr Hoo]

As I recall - this was pre-Pendolino, it was a substantial proportion of the train maintenance staff - I'll see if I can find the Guardian article. This was prior to the Department taking a more hands on role in managing the franchise.

Thanks for the clarification. I’m not sure that changes made around 20 years ago when locomotive-powered services with Mark IIIs were replaced with pendolinos are of much significance in an apparently recent run of problems.

 

[riceuten]

Thanks for the clarification. I’m not sure that changes made around 20 years ago when locomotive-powered services with Mark IIIs were replaced with pendolinos are of much significance in an apparently recent run of problems.

It shows the folly of staff cuts and failing to recruit replacement staff for those leaving or retiring.

 

[Dr Hoo]

It shows the folly of staff cuts and failing to recruit replacement staff for those leaving or retiring.

Ah; so there’s a recruitment ban (as well as the current timetable cuts). With you now.
Anybody know if the DfT are behind that too?

 

[OscarH]

This is a result of the private TOCs not addressing the challenge of getting Sunday's in the working week,"kicking the can down the road" for years and years, putting in the too difficult/ too expensive pile!
Before the anti Union brigade pile in, it's been Union policy ASLEF at least, for Sunday's in the working week since privatisation.

Given the DfT are even tighter than the private operators, and have been making cuts left right and centre constantly, there's even less chance of anyone sorting it now

 

[Clarence Yard]

The maintenance staff haven’t been TOC employees for some considerable time now (they went Alstom decades ago) so they are not really relevant to the current staffing situation.

The TOC will be working to the annual DfT business plan for that TOC which will detail the staff numbers and recruitment/training plans and their costs. Any variations to that plan have to be signed off by the DfT.

The DfT, if they want to save costs, can unilaterally alter that plan and instruct the TOC accordingly.

 

[voyagerdude220]

There are several alterations already showing on Avanti's Journey Check website for tomorrow.

One of which is tomorrow evening's 21:10 London Euston to Preston, which is the last train of the day from London to Preston (ignoring Sleeper services).

I'm guessing most stops could be covered by getting the 22:00 Euston to Runcorn covering everywhere the 21:10 should have been calling at south of Crewe, but not sure about Warrington, Wigan and Preston. Bus from Crewe?

 

[D1537]

There are several alterations already showing on Avanti's Journey Check website for tomorrow.

One of which is tomorrow evening's 21:10 London Euston to Preston, which is the last train of the day from London to Preston (ignoring Sleeper services).

I'm guessing most stops could be covered by getting the 22:00 Euston to Runcorn covering everywhere the 21:10 should have been calling at south of Crewe, but not sure about Warrington, Wigan and Preston. Bus from Crewe?

Preston can be done off the 22:03 Euston-Manchester using the 00:09 Manchester Picc-Blackpool

Earlestown (within taxi range of both Wigan and Warrington) can also be done using the 00:24 Piccadilly-Chester RRB.

For Warrington and Wigan themselves you'd need to be on the 20:43 Euston-Liverpool at the latest.