Locomotive Names - What were the reasons, the logic, the effects, the value?

[Gloster]

King's Wimbledon certainly possesses one of the nameplates - I'm unclear whether post-withdrawal, or as a presentation item at the naming (the school also has a 7mm scale model of the locomotive, in display case).

There is a list on Wikipedia which records where a number of the nameplates are to be found. ‘List of SR V “Schools” class locomotives’.

At leats one squadron nameplate from a 'Battle of Britain' loco was presented to the RAF and exhibited in a Forces' museum.

I think that Spitfire, Hurricane and (possibly) Fighter Command nameplates, either original or presentation, were at Bentley Priory, Fighter Command Headquarters. When it closed they went to the RAF Museum at Hendon.

 

[35B]

There is a list on Wikipedia which records where a number of the nameplates are to be found. ‘List of SR V “Schools” class locomotives’.

Thank you - I just remember seeing in the sports hall as I went in and out of PE lessons

 

[Rescars]

King's Wimbledon certainly possesses one of the nameplates - I'm unclear whether post-withdrawal, or as a presentation item at the naming (the school also has a 7mm scale model of the locomotive, in display case).

AIUI the nameplates were presented on withdrawal. When new, there were naming ceremonies at the appropriate local station for schools in Southern territory. Some schools (I would guess all) were presented with very fine large photographs of "their" loco in ex-works condition. At least some of these photos were not quite what they purported to be however, being in reality a picture of 911 Dover with its original name and number blanked out and the name and number of the recipient school inserted. Over the years the original sepia faded and the brushstrokes of the substituted details became increasingly apparent!

 

[CW2]

LNER had strong links with pigeon raicng, even constructing dedicated pigeon vans (with shelves to stack pigeon-carrying baskets).
Part of me wishes the LNER had named a mixed-traffic class after early 20th Century successful pigeon-racers.
I don't suppose the pigeons, thenselves, had names...

"Speckled Jim"?

 

[Merle Haggard]

//snip

I think that Spitfire, Hurricane and (possibly) Fighter Command nameplates, either original or presentation, were at Bentley Priory, Fighter Command Headquarters. When it closed they went to the RAF Museum at Hendon.

"Presentation' nameplates were a thing in the later days of corporate names when another one could be knocked out by Newton Replicas cheaply, but I don't think that happened earlier.
There was some interest in one of the names displayed at an RAF museum. Another nameplate of the same loco was offered to an auction house and it was then realised there were now 3 in known circumstances. Moral; museums should be cautious about the kind offer of 'I'll take that nameplate home and polish it for you'. Or at least check its provenance when it's returned

 

[Harvester]

Another uncooperative headmaster prevented the naming of a V2 in 1939. The nameplates “The Royal Grammar School Newcastle Upon Tyne AD 1545” were cast at Darlington but never fitted to the loco. The plates do not appear to have survived, most probably melted down or lost!

 

[Merle Haggard]

There were a lot of Black Fives and it was odd that just a few were named. What was even odder is that (4)5154 and (4) 5156 - 8 were chosen for names, but (4)5155 was nameless. The reason for this, and, if it was intended to be named what had been chosen, have never been satisfactorily explained.
I think the gap in EE4 ocean line names is explained, though.

 

[Gloster]

There were a lot of Black Fives and it was odd that just a few were named. What was even odder is that (4)5154 and (4) 5156 - 8 were chosen for names, but (4)5155 was nameless. The reason for this, and, if it was intended to be named what had been chosen, have never been satisfactorily explained.
I think the gap in EE4 ocean line names is explained, though.

It has been reported, apparently based on reasonably trustworthy sources, that 5155 was named The Queen’s Edinburgh from circa 1940 to 1942. Why it was denamed is not known, but (I SPECULATE) perhaps it was felt that a Searchlight and later Anti-aircraft unit was not suitably grandiose.

What I find more baffling with the choice of names for the English-Electric Type 4, which were named (if I remember correctly) after ships belonging to lines that used Liverpool, was the inclusion of Lancastria (D223). The sinking of the Lancastria saw the single greatest loss of life from one British ship’s loss ever. This was in the days when the war was still an open wound, long before the era when we, or at least those who weren’t there, started looking back nostalgically to the days when we were half-starved and being bombed every night.

 

[Harvester]

There were a lot of Black Fives and it was odd that just a few were named. What was even odder is that (4)5154 and (4) 5156 - 8 were chosen for names, but (4)5155 was nameless. The reason for this, and, if it was intended to be named what had been chosen, have never been satisfactorily explained.
I think the gap in EE4 ocean line names is explained, though.

D226 was supposedly allocated the name Media, so what is, the explanation to why the plates were never fitted?

Also the gap of four unnamed Brits 70046-49 was never satisfactory explained. Three were named belatedly years later, leaving just 70047 to have never carried a name.

 

[Merle Haggard]

D226 was supposedly allocated the name Media, so what is, the explanation to why the plates were never fitted?

Also the gap of four unnamed Brits 70046-49 was never satisfactory explained. Three were named belatedly years later, leaving just 70047 to have never carried a name.

I thought that Media wasn't used because the liner was taken out of service before the name was to be applied.

I have heard, probably just invention though, that 71000 was to be named Duke of Edinburgh but the Royal family objected - possibly because of the fate of 46202 Princess Anne. With all respects to the Duke of Gloucester he wasn't the most important duke at the time..

 

[Acathater]

Media or Medea?

 

[Taunton]

Hal o' the Wynd was a character in one of Walter Scott's 'Waverley' novels

I suspect many south of the border thought this was pronounced as in wind in a storm, whereas Wynd in Edinburgh is a narrow alley between houses, pronounced as to wind up a clock, and in Scott's books Hal lived down there!

I've always felt that loco names should have underneath a sentence of brief explanation. The only really invented names were those on the D1000 Westerns.

 

[Acathater]

I suspect many south of the border thought this was pronounced as in wind in a storm, whereas Wynd in Edinburgh is a narrow alley between houses, pronounced as to wind up a clock, and in Scott's books Hal lived down there!

Same as a Weind in parts of Lancashire - e.g. Garstang

 

[Harvester]

Media or Medea?

Media - Cunard White Star Line, sister ship to Parthia, the name carried by D227.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I suspect many south of the border thought this was pronounced as in wind in a storm, whereas Wynd in Edinburgh is a narrow alley between houses, pronounced as to wind up a clock, and in Scott's books Hal lived down there!

/snip

Wind Street in Swansea - which had some railway significance - was pronounced similarly.

 

[Martyr]

Other than regiments and the football clubs, I can’t think of many other organisations that “graced” steam locos.

Looking at the Patriots, I believe 'Bradshaw' was named after the timetable book rather than the man himself. Would that count as an organisation?

I think 'Giggleswick' was named after the school rather than the place.

'Home Guard' doesn't really count as a regiment.

Then in the Scots we have 'Royal Air Force' and 'British Legion.'

 

[70014IronDuke]

Looking at the Patriots, I believe 'Bradshaw' was named after the timetable book rather than the man himself. Would that count as an organisation?

I think 'Giggleswick' was named after the school rather than the place.

'Home Guard' doesn't really count as a regiment.

Then in the Scots we have 'Royal Air Force' and 'British Legion.'

And The Girl Guide and The Boy Scout. they must have been getting desperate after 6167.

When did they name The Royal Air Force, I wonder? Interesting that for most of WWI, the air arm would have been The Royal Flying Corps, which I presume would have been under the Army. And it, presumably, suffered more loss of life in total than the RAF, which formed on 1 April, 1918.

 

[Gloster]

And The Girl Guide and The Boy Scout. they must have been getting desperate after 6167.

When did they name The Royal Air Force, I wonder? Interesting that for most of WWI, the air arm would have been The Royal Flying Corps, which I presume would have been under the Army. And it, presumably, suffered more loss of life in total than the RAF, which formed on 1 April, 1918.

The choice of The Boy Scout and, presumably The Girl Guide, as names seems to have been heavily influenced by the fact that Henry Fowler, the CME who designed the class, was deeply involved with the scouting movement. He was also coming up for retirement when the loco was named. There is a photo of him in full scout uniform alongside the loco, possibly at the naming ceremony; it does look very dated.

I can’t see anything unreasonable about calling a loco The Royal Air Force. They had already used one type, in many varieties, of military unit, so why not another? And remember that at that time the RAF was seen as the future.

 

[EYFanatic]

I'm not sure that the general public would realise the significance of them in isolation, though.
In my opinion, the only race horse name that almost everybody recognises is 'Shergar'. I will leave others to suggest what traction that name might be appropriate for in the hope that history repeats itself

Given what happened to it, according to IRA sources, perhaps a name for a bullet train