Locomotive Names - What were the reasons, the logic, the effects, the value?

[Gloster]

Charles Collett, CME of the GWR and a contrary fellow, allegedly gave GWR Director names to his economy rebuild 'Dukedogs' out of mischief. They were ancient looking affairs even for the time, if very successful, and their lordships objected. New and nearly new 'Castles' had to be hastily renamed to placate them.

As commented in the Fountains Hall thread, the change was more likely because Stanley Baldwin, a GWR director from 1908 to 1917, had recently stood down as PM. This is from Part Fourteen of the RCTS history, which seems to have been based on a lot of solid research.

I am always a bit suspicious of neat little stories like this whether on railway matters or others; one or two of the doyens of railway writing are known to have inserted amusing untruths or unsubstantiated rumours into their works. Any serious journalist knows this is not a good idea: somebody will take it seriously and spread it around, possibly leading to it coming back to bite you.

 

[Skipness]

Surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the LNER naming of the B1 class. The initial locomotives were named after species of antelope, many of them obscure but including “GNU”. After this proved insufficient they resorted to railway directors such as William Hinton Carver in contrast to the economy of a nameplate just three letters long

 

[Merle Haggard]

Surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the LNER naming of the B1 class. The initial locomotives were named after species of antelope, many of them obscure but including “GNU”. After this proved insufficient they resorted to railway directors such as William Hinton Carver in contrast to the economy of a nameplate just three letters long

I did see that. It had the standard size nameplate, roughly the length of the smokebox, and was rendered 'G N U' to fill up the space.
A regular on Northampton - Peterborough trains was 61005 'BONGO' a name which, without explanation of context, might have struck the passenger as puzzling.

The naming after directors may have been connected with the imminent demise of the LNER.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the LNER naming of the B1 class.

post 5

Locomotive Names - What were the reasons, the logic, the effects, the value?

For some random reason while washing up this week my mind wandered to consider locomotive nameplates, or rather, why railway companies bothered to name some locomotives (generally their express passenger engines, of course) and whether they ever sought to measure whether the results justified...

www.railforums.co.uk

I've wondered why GNU was chosen, rather than Wildebeest. Perhaps Gnu was, at that time, the more commonly-used.

 

[Merle Haggard]

post 5

Locomotive Names - What were the reasons, the logic, the effects, the value?

For some random reason while washing up this week my mind wandered to consider locomotive nameplates, or rather, why railway companies bothered to name some locomotives (generally their express passenger engines, of course) and whether they ever sought to measure whether the results justified...

www.railforums.co.uk

I've wondered why GNU was chosen, rather than Wildebeest. Perhaps Gnu was, at that time, the more commonly-used.

61010 was 'WILDEBEESTE'.

Yeadon's Register, Appendix One - lists the animals referred to by the B1 names and the duplications. There were other duplicates including 61014 ORIBI and 61026 OUREBI; 61021 REITBOK (should have been RIETBOK) and 61028 UMSEKE (should have been spelt UMZIKI); and 61032 STEMBOK and 61039 STEINBOK.

Sorry this has appeared as a quote and I can't remove the quote effect

Perhaps they were just chosen to make passengers wonder about an exotic name and find out more, similar to what was possibly the intention with Webb-era LNWR names.
.
The odd one out is 61040 ROEDEER, a. native of Scotland rather than Africa.

Edited for consistincy

 

[Magdalia]

61010 was 'WILDEBEESTE'.

Did 61010 ever get to go sweeping majestically across the plain of York?

 

[Gloster]

The odd one out is 61040 ROEDEER, a. native of Scotland rather than Africa.

The name should correctly be not one but two words: Roe Deer. One wonders whether someone got confused with Roebuck, which is one word but only applies to the male of the species.

 

[D1537]

Modern day LNER should bring back the racehorse names. As the Azumas are based in Doncaster, then I suggest naming them all after past winners of the St Ledger.

I'm not sure that the general public would realise the significance of them in isolation, though.
In my opinion, the only race horse name that almost everybody recognises is 'Shergar'. I will leave others to suggest what traction that name might be appropriate for in the hope that history repeats itself

And four of them have already been used on the Deltics!

There's some quite good names there though, as well as some spectacularly bad ones. I certainly wouldn't use the winner of the 1874 race, which was named Apology.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I clearly remember the goose bumps I got when I saw a namer Brush - D1660- D1677 (later Class 47). Definitely mainly western region themed. None named after Stanier or Stephenson for example!

 

[D1537]

I clearly remember the goose bumps I got when I saw a namer Brush - D1660- D1677 (later Class 47). Definitely mainly western region themed. None named after Stanier or Stephenson for example!

Yes, most of the WR namers were either named after GWR people (Brunel, Gooch, Churchward) or after GWR broad gauge locomotives.

As far as I can determine, Odin, Colossus and Thor didn't have GWR antecedents - unless anyone knows better...

 

[Sun Chariot]

Yes, most of the WR namers were either named after GWR (Brunel, Gooch, Churchward) or after GWR broad gauge locomotives.

As far as I can determine, Odin, Colossus and Thor didn't have GWR antecedents - unless anyone knows better...

Yes and your good self proffered the insight linked below

Older locomotive name acronyms

Odin and Thor. 47081 and 47091. Bravo @D1537 Nearly there, M! Yes, a teaser as THOR was D1671 and then, from April 1966, D1677 (47091). Another type 4 EOB My favourite 16 wheeler EE. D210. 8-)

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Rover]

Made me wonder, however, while we had football clubs, we've never had County Cricket equivalents, have we?

Yes, 43043 Leicestershire County Cricket Club, 43115 Yorkshire Cricket Academy.

 

[Rescars]

Yes, most of the WR namers were either named after GWR people (Brunel, Gooch, Churchward) or after GWR broad gauge locomotives.

As far as I can determine, Odin, Colossus and Thor didn't have GWR antecedents - unless anyone knows better...

After some unfortunate starts (the performance of neither Hurricane and Thunderer living up to their implied promise!) the choice of names of GWR broad gauge locos relied in part on the classics - though sometimes challenging Swindon's spelling accuracy.

The LNWR went in for some unusual choices. Waterloo class no 90 "Luck of Edenhall" must have been unique in being named after an item medieval glassware.

Not all loco naming was welcomed. The Southern got into trouble over "V" class no 923 with the headmaster of Uppingham School for having the temerity to place the name of his exalted institution on such a thing as railway locomotive. The SR happily transferred the honour to Bradfield College instead.

 

[Gloster]

After some unfortunate starts (the performance of neither Hurricane and Thunderer living up to their implied promise!) the choice of names of GWR broad gauge locos relied in part on the classics - though sometimes challenging Swindon's spelling accuracy.

The also had an imaginary Hall: there does not appears to be a Runter Hall (7919) anywhere. Swindon apparently thought it was at Milcote, south-west of Stratford-upon-Avon, but there is only Rumer Hall there. (Source: RCTS GWR loco history, Part Fourteen.)

Not all loco naming was welcomed. The Southern got into trouble over "V" class no 923 with the headmaster of Uppingham School for having the temerity to place the name of his exalted institution on such a thing as railway locomotive. The SR happily transferred the honour to Bradfield College instead.

According to D.L.Bradley, who saw original paperwork, the headmaster who retired in 1934 (and later became Primate of New Zealand) objected because it was too much like advertising. His successor, later Lord Wolfenden, wrote and requested that the name be removed.

 

[43096]

Did 61010 ever get to go sweeping majestically across the plain of York?

Or even get a run to Torquay?!

 

[Magdalia]

Or even get a run to Torquay?!

I doubt it as there was a GWR ATC brick wall at Bristol in steam days. B1s did get as far as Bristol on trains going to Devon and Cornwall, so 61010 might have got as far as Bristol carrying some passengers going to Torquay.

 

[Harvester]

Did 61010 ever get to go sweeping majestically across the plain of York?

It appears 61010 did manage that…..7 general repairs at Darlington between 1950-1962 while allocated to Hull.

 

[70014IronDuke]

William Whitelaw, chairman of the LNER, used to joke there were three locomotives running on his system at the same time all named after him:

The Pacific 'William Whitelaw'
D30 4-4-0 'Wandering Willie'
J36 0-6-0 'Ole Bill'

I wonder which one his wife thought most appropriate?

Hal o' the Wynd was a character in one of Walter Scott's 'Waverley' novels, the name first being applied in a railway context to one of the North British 'Scott' class 4-4-0s, subsequently passing to a Peppercorn A1 Pacific and latterly to a class 87 electric locomotive.

Ah, thanks for the explanation. Mr Scott certainly had a mind for intriguing names. I remember a friend told me 50+ years ago that one of the Hal o' the Wynd plates had ended up in a pub in South Shields or thereabouts, but I've never been able to confirm that.

Surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the LNER naming of the B1 class. The initial locomotives were named after species of antelope, many of them obscure but including “GNU”. After this proved insufficient they resorted to railway directors such as William Hinton Carver in contrast to the economy of a nameplate just three letters long

IT really is a bit of a weird choice, when you think about it. Of course, at the time, Britain had colonies in Africa, so a few people would have been aware of many of the species, but even so.

I did see that. It had the standard size nameplate, roughly the length of the smokebox, and was rendered 'G N U' to fill up the space.

That's really bizarre! i wonder if Michael Flanders saw the locomotive and got the idea of the GerNu song?

A regular on Northampton - Peterborough trains was 61005 'BONGO' a name which, without explanation of context, might have struck the passenger as puzzling.

It was a March loco in the early 60s, I believe.

The naming after directors may have been connected with the imminent demise of the LNER.

Good spot. What about Strang Steel? (Have I got that right?)

Yes, 43043 Leicestershire County Cricket Club, 43115 Yorkshire Cricket Academy.

Ah, interesting. A bit random though. Would be nice to have a whole class dedicated though, starting with Sir Garfield Sobers, perhaps ...

According to D.L.Bradley, who saw original paperwork, the headmaster who retired in 1934 (and later became Primate of New Zealand) objected because it was too much like advertising. His successor, later Lord Wolfenden, wrote and requested that the name be removed.

I have read (perhaps in here) that at least one of the Uppingham nameplates is on display in the school - rather ironic, if true, given its history.

 

[Harvester]

William Whitelaw, chairman of the LNER, used to joke there were three locomotives running on his system at the same time all named after him:

The Pacific 'William Whitelaw'
D30 4-4-0 'Wandering Willie'
J36 0-6-0 'Ole Bill'

I wonder if he ever saw that elusive A4 after it acquired his name!!

 

[Gloster]

That's really bizarre! i wonder if Michael Flanders saw the locomotive and got the idea of the GerNu song?


I have read (perhaps in here) that at least one of the Uppingham nameplates is on display in the school - rather ironic, if true, given its history.

Supposedly, according to the story that Michael Flanders used to tell when introducing the song, its genesis was the way that a large car registered 346GNU used to park in the one spot where he could conveniently get from car to wheelchair and v.v. (This cannot be entirely true as the reversed number plates did not appear until after the song.) But you gnu that, didn’t you?

I have read that Uppingham have, or had at one point, both nameplates.

 

[Rescars]

I have read that Uppingham have, or had at one point, both nameplates.

A fine advertisement indeed!!

 

[The exile]

A fine advertisement indeed!!

I suspect that all the schools (except Stowe and Cheltenham for obvious reasons) may have had one presented to them on withdrawal. Other than regiments and the football clubs, I can’t think of many other organisations that “graced” steam locos.

 

[Gloster]

I suspect that all the schools (except Stowe and Cheltenham for obvious reasons) may have had one presented to them on withdrawal. Other than regiments and the football clubs, I can’t think of many other organisations that “graced” steam locos.

And Repton.

 

[Rescars]

I suspect that all the schools (except Stowe and Cheltenham for obvious reasons) may have had one presented to them on withdrawal. Other than regiments and the football clubs, I can’t think of many other organisations that “graced” steam locos.

The Merchant Navies would also count.

 

[The exile]

And Repton.

Forgot that one.

 

[The exile]

The Merchant Navies would also count.

Indeed - though I wonder how many met their end before the loco did, given the fact that shipping was in as much of a state of flux as the railways were.

 

[Acathater]

I suspect that all the schools (except Stowe and Cheltenham for obvious reasons) may have had one presented to them on withdrawal. Other than regiments and the football clubs, I can’t think of many other organisations that “graced” steam locos.

Warships?

 

[Merle Haggard]

At leats one squadron nameplate from a 'Battle of Britain' loco was presented to the RAF and exhibited in a Forces' museum.

 

[35B]

I suspect that all the schools (except Stowe and Cheltenham for obvious reasons) may have had one presented to them on withdrawal. Other than regiments and the football clubs, I can’t think of many other organisations that “graced” steam locos.

King's Wimbledon certainly possesses one of the nameplates - I'm unclear whether post-withdrawal, or as a presentation item at the naming (the school also has a 7mm scale model of the locomotive, in display case).

 

[The exile]

Warships?

There’s more than I initially thought - though I suspect many of both sets of Warship names were “history” long before withdrawal. Quite a few if the squadrons as well, I guess.