When is a local train, not a local train?

[SwindonManor]

I've seen this post:

How is a commuter only train defined?

Which makes me think, how is a local train defined?

A branch line of a short ish length? E.g Looe? Or a 156 operating to remote Scottish stations e.g west highland line? The journey from Glasgow to Mallaig is 163 miles and lasts close to 5 hours, so what is a local train?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd understand it as meaning a stopping train (one that stops at all or most stations on its route) rather than how long its run is.

In the South East even that is blurred, though, in that the concept of "fast to X, semifast to Y then all stations to Z" is a very common model.

 

[frankmoh]

I'd understand it as meaning a stopping train (one that stops at all or most stations on its route) rather than how long its run is.

In the South East even that is blurred, though, in that the concept of "fast to X, semifast to Y then all stations to Z" is a very common model.

On the Hayes Line, trains that skip Lewisham have a Class 1 headcode, whilst trains that call at Lewisham are Class 2. It's one station and a difference of about 4-5 minutes, but one gets all the favourable paths into Charing Cross on a Monday morning!

 

[Spartacus]

Northern have a few mixtures.

The Leeds - Lincoln services are very much semi-fasts between Leeds and Sheffield, but then very much local services between Sheffield and Lincoln, The York - Blackpools seemingly swing back and forth, The Hull - Halifaxes currently are semifast to Selby then stoppers from there.

 

[The exile]

Northern have a few mixtures.

The Leeds - Lincoln services are very much semi-fasts between Leeds and Sheffield, but then very much local services between Sheffield and Lincoln, The York - Blackpools seemingly swing back and forth, The Hull - Halifaxes currently are semifast to Selby then stoppers from there.

Even in countries that formalise this distinction (with train numbers and differing fare structures) it’s not an unknown phenomenon. The Berchtesgaden ICs were Regional trains while on the branch and Im sure I remember S-Bahn trains that became RBs when they crossed an authority boundary (though can’t remember where)

 

[Dr Hoo]

An alternative way of looking at it is to think in terms of ‘trains for local people along a line of route’. This is very much where the Community Rail movement came from.
So, in my native Hope Valley the Northern stopping trains clearly are ‘local’, allowing local residents to get to work in Sheffield or students along the valley to get to Hope Valley college, etc.. The line is also the gateway to the rest of Britain via connections at Sheffield or Manchester.
The longer distance regional services operated by TransPennine and EMR that don’t stop in the Hope Valley are thus not ‘local services’.

 

[wilbers]

If there was ever a train that stopped at "Royston Vasey" that would be the most local of local trains.

 

[The exile]

An alternative way of looking at it is to think in terms of ‘trains for local people along a line of route’. This is very much where the Community Rail movement came from.
So, in my native Hope Valley the Northern stopping trains clearly are ‘local’, allowing local residents to get to work in Sheffield or students along the valley to get to Hope Valley college, etc.. The line is also the gateway to the rest of Britain via connections at Sheffield or Manchester.
The longer distance regional services operated by TransPennine and EMR that don’t stop in the Hope Valley are thus not ‘local services’.

Indeed - you could nake a valid case for arguing that a “local train” only really exists as a concept where there is something to distinguish it from. In other words, the description makes sense on the Hope Valley but not, for example on the Far North Line unless you are wanting to highlight the fact that there is no express service.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

In the South East even that is blurred, though, in that the concept of "fast to X, semifast to Y then all stations to Z" is a very common model.

Not just in the South East as the 80x 125mph Inter City trains become stoppers in Devon and Cornwall beyond Exeter or Plymouth.

 

[A S Leib]

There's cases where services skip sizeable numbers of stations and I'd still consider them to be local ones for their full length; Aylesbury (Vale Parkway) – Marylebone has eight or nine intermediate stations off-peak, passing as many stations as it calls at. Even a regional express seems too grand of a term for that case.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If there was ever a train that stopped at "Royston Vasey" that would be the most local of local trains.

There is, it just says Hadfield on the signs

 

[Watershed]

The longer distance regional services operated by TransPennine and EMR that don’t stop in the Hope Valley are thus not ‘local services’.

Of course the EMR services do stop at the start and end of the day to provide an alternative to the Northern services. So in that case it is rather less clear cut.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Of course the EMR services do stop at the start and end of the day to provide an alternative to the Northern services. So in that case it is rather less clear cut.

Where you get that in Germany you often get one train put in the timetable as if it were two, with the same timings over the relevant section (in this case Manchester-Sheffield, I guess) - an RB/RE and an IC/ICE. This is necessary because of the ticket validity differences. In effect it's a form of portion working though with no physically separate portions. I seem to recall Thalys ("Eurostar Red") may have also had a "parallel" D-Zug until they and DB fell out, along similar lines, to allow walk-up travel on the German side where it also fulfilled that role.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Of course the EMR services do stop at the start and end of the day to provide an alternative to the Northern services. So in that case it is rather less clear cut.

Precisely making my point that it is the local service that the train provides that makes it local train (rather than the operator - all going to be GBR soon anyway - or the rolling stock, or distance travelled).

 

[The exile]

Where you get that in Germany you often get one train put in the timetable as if it were two, with the same timings over the relevant section (in this case Manchester-Sheffield, I guess) - an RB/RE and an IC/ICE.

That’s a (relatively) new phenomenon, though - I think. Mind you, with a very few exceptions (Berchtesgaden being one) so is the concept.
Going off at a slight tangent , is Belgium the only system to actually use the “local” concept in its train classification? (L- numbers)
EDIT - of course it isn’t - Germany used to have N - for Nahverkehr.

 

[Watershed]

Precisely making my point that it is the local service that the train provides that makes it local train (rather than the operator - all going to be GBR soon anyway - or the rolling stock, or distance travelled).

But does that make it a local service for its entire duration to Norwich/Liverpool? I wouldn't have thought so. So perhaps we are in agreement that a train can be 'local' for part of its route but not all of it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

But does that make it a local service for its entire duration to Norwich/Liverpool? I wouldn't have thought so. So perhaps we are in agreement that a train can be 'local' for part of its route but not all of it?

As noted above in countries that have a "hard divide" this is done to some extent.

 

[Dr Hoo]

But does that make it a local service for its entire duration to Norwich/Liverpool? I wouldn't have thought so. So perhaps we are in agreement that a train can be 'local' for part of its route but not all of it?

I completely agree that the service provided is ‘local’ on one section and not on others. In the same way, a Euston-Glasgow train is effectively a ‘local service’ between Warrington BQ and Preston. It’s all about looking at it from the passenger perspective rather than industry perspectives of rolling stock class, reporting number, whether the ‘guard’ is called a ‘senior conductor’ and whatnot.
(If someone is going to quibble about Euxton BL and Leyland, I’ll just say Warrington BQ-Wigan NW.)

 

[The exile]

I completely agree that the service provided is ‘local’ on one section and not on others. In the same way, a Euston-Glasgow train is effectively a ‘local service’ between Warrington BQ and Preston. It’s all about looking at it from the passenger perspective rather than industry perspectives of rolling stock class, reporting number, whether the ‘guard’ is called a ‘senior conductor’ and whatnot.
(If someone is going to quibble about Euxton BL and Leyland, I’ll just say Warrington BQ-Wigan NW.)

Even so, I doubt any passenger would regard a Euston to Glasgow train as a “local train”, even if it was their only way of getting from Wigan to Warrington - any more than Bristol - London trains are local trains between Bath and Didcot.

 

[Kilopylae]

The rolling stock is surely also a factor - I would say a GWR 800 is not a local train, even west of Plymouth, because it's intercity rolling stock.

 

[vlad]

The rolling stock is surely also a factor - I would say a GWR 800 is not a local train, even west of Plymouth, because it's intercity rolling stock.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C48440/2026-08-07/detailed#allox_id=0 is an 800 calling at every station in Cornwall and terminating at Plymouth. Would it be more "local" if it was a 175 instead?

 

[Royston Vasey]

I decide.

 

[TheSmiths82]

In the North at least, I would say TPE is long distance and Northern is mostly local. TPE is a bit mixed as some of their services especially from the airport also act as local trains. In theory as I suppose even an Avanti from Manchester to Stockport is a local train although I don't think you're supposed to alight at Stockport it is supposed to be pickup only but I am not sure if that is enforced.

 

[Kilopylae]

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C48440/2026-08-07/detailed#allox_id=0 is an 800 calling at every station in Cornwall and terminating at Plymouth. Would it be more "local" if it was a 175 instead?

Touche!

 

[A S Leib]

although I don't think you're supposed to alight at Stockport it is supposed to be pickup only

It isn't, unlike at Watford Junction; Avanti's own website and app offer itineraries with their services between Piccadilly and Stockport with tickets available to buy.

 

[Falcon1200]

any more than Bristol - London trains are local trains between Bath and Didcot.

But many of those trains call at all stations between Bath and Didcot! That might define a local train, even if in this case it is only 4 stations in total.

 

[Taunton]

Prominent poet 100 years ago, Siegfried Sassoon, wrote "A Local Train of Thought". Which in any anthology of railway poems generally turns up. Here:

A Local Train of Thought

There’s a comfort in routines and familiar sounds. Some towns have a noon whistle. If you’ve lived near a school or a factory you’ll know a routine. If you’re close to a chi…

www.josieholford.com

 

[CR165022]

There's cases where services skip sizeable numbers of stations and I'd still consider them to be local ones for their full length; Aylesbury (Vale Parkway) – Marylebone has eight or nine intermediate stations off-peak, passing as many stations as it calls at. Even a regional express seems too grand of a term for that case.

Those services only skip one station, Moor Park, and no Chiltern services have ever called there. The other stations it passes only have platforms on the underground side, so don't really count

 

[Class15]

Those services only skip one station, Moor Park, and no Chiltern services have ever called there.

I thought they did?

 

[rmHawk765]

I thought they did?

No, Chiltern trains via Amersham run fast from Marylebone to Harrow, then fast from Harrow to Rickmansworth.