EMR Regional and Connect refurbishments

[Merle Haggard]

Yes, coming from the team that's brought you such three increasingly epic threads of woe - the 246 page Class 810 thread, the 31-page "EMR Class 222’s - declining reliability" and the still new "EMR to introduce reduced Inter City service from Monday 20th July" (only 4 pages so far), it will not be a massive shock to discover that Connect's current performance is also woeful.

EMR need 12 of its 20 Cl360s in 6 pairs to operate all services as 8-car. My superficial analysis suggests EMR cannot or will not regularly use more than about 9 on a weekday - e.g. today it looks like one diagram is 4 vs 8 car, and one diagram is missing. This is ~45% availability whereas it looks like other operators using similar 350 and 450 fleets get 80-90%.

RTT shows 222006 making a round trip to Corby. If it's true it suggests an acknowledgement that the 360 situation is even worse than the 222 on3

 

[friy]

RTT shows 222006 making a round trip to Corby. If it's true it suggests an acknowledgement that the 360 situation is even worse than the 222 on3

can confirm it’s true, luckily first class is declassified as well as it was packed

 

[43102EMR]

RTT shows 222006 making a round trip to Corby. If it's true it suggests an acknowledgement that the 360 situation is even worse than the 222 on3

The 222s doing what they do best - running diesel fully under the wires

 

[reduke]

Ok second 360 refurb journey completed and the first overcarry I've had in a very long time...

Perhaps the seats are too comfortable and the announcements too quiet... /s

 

[43102EMR]

Finally got to travel on the refurbished 360 yesterday and the comparisons are like night and day, it was a very well executed refurb. The major problem however was the fact that there’s still only one toilet, which was out of order. One passenger had to alight at Bedford and board the rear unit because of this!

 

[WesternLancer]

Finally got to travel on the refurbished 360 yesterday and the comparisons are like night and day, it was a very well executed refurb. The major problem however was the fact that there’s still only one toilet, which was out of order. One passenger had to alight at Bedford and board the rear unit because of this!

That's v low toilet to carriage / seat ratio I would think...

EDIT looks like post 1,027 indicates provision is more than 1 lav

Reinstating my post as look like @Bletchleyite was relying on duff gen....

That's v low toilet to carriage / seat ratio I would think...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Finally got to travel on the refurbished 360 yesterday and the comparisons are like night and day, it was a very well executed refurb. The major problem however was the fact that there’s still only one toilet, which was out of order. One passenger had to alight at Bedford and board the rear unit because of this!

360s, like 350s, have two toilets, one accessible and one small. (350/4s I think have an extra one for a total of three).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Aug 2026 ==

That's v low toilet to carriage / seat ratio I would think...

It's not correct

Edit: Seems it's EMR's website that's wrong and there is indeed only one.

 

[Ben Anslow]

Hopefully we start seeing images and videos of the interior now it is in service

 

[LowLevel]

360s, like 350s, have two toilets, one accessible and one small. (350/4s I think have an extra one for a total of three).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Aug 2026 ==



It's not correct

The 360/1 units have 1 toilet, the accessible one, per train.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think it’s a shame the 185, 350, 444 and 450 refurbs didn’t get the same LCD PIS upgrade, though I appreciate the first two got the TV style screens. The green flipdot looks so dated and they’ve done well replacing it on the 360s.

It actually looks good unlike the awful laggy system on the 172s, which looks to be the same but scrolls appallingly slow.

 

[Mike395]

360s, like 350s, have two toilets, one accessible and one small. (350/4s I think have an extra one for a total of three).

Per @LowLevel and as someone who travels on them regularly, there is only one toilet per unit.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Per @LowLevel and as someone who travels on them regularly, there is only one toilet per unit.

Interesting, as that's not what EMR's website says on the matter under the accessibility information (I did check before I posted that!). Was one removed or locked out?

I'd agree that assuming that the website is wrong this is totally inadequate.

Here's the link:

Connect | EMR

Introducing EMR Connect our first electric train service operated with Class 360's. Our EMR Connect trains provide frequent and convenient services between Corby and London St Pancras International

www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

Wheelchair-accessible toilet	Yes
Standard toilet	Yes

 

[CR165022]

Unless there's another toilet hidden somewhere, the website is definitely wrong, has only ever been 1 toilet on the 360s.

 

[Mike395]

Interesting, as that's not what EMR's website says on the matter under the accessibility information (I did check before I posted that!). Was one removed or locked out?

I'd agree that assuming that the website is wrong this is totally inadequate.

Here's the link:

Connect | EMR

Introducing EMR Connect our first electric train service operated with Class 360's. Our EMR Connect trains provide frequent and convenient services between Corby and London St Pancras International

www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

As far as I am aware the 360s only ever had one toilet even when they were with GA, so I think the site is just plain wrong.

 

[WesternLancer]

360s, like 350s, have two toilets, one accessible and one small. (350/4s I think have an extra one for a total of three).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Aug 2026 ==



It's not correct

Edit: Seems it's EMR's website that's wrong and there is indeed only one.

How easy should it be for EMR to keep their own website up to date...

This is an organisation that seems to be descending into chaos in many areas at the moment. Must be frustrating for staff as well as passengers

 

[RealTrains07]

I think it’s a shame the 185, 350, 444 and 450 refurbs didn’t get the same LCD PIS upgrade, though I appreciate the first two got the TV style screens. The green flipdot looks so dated and they’ve done well replacing it on the 360s.

It actually looks good unlike the awful laggy system on the 172s, which looks to be the same but scrolls appallingly slow.

Its may look “dated” but has and continues to be still reliable way of displaying information on the 360s as well as the others listed.

I am surprised they went to the effort of changing it on the 360s when it was not a problem to begin with.

 

[QSK19]

I am surprised they went to the effort of changing it on the 360s when it was not a problem to begin with.

What frustrates me a little with the spend approach in terms of EMR (or things having a major impact on EMR) is that it’s not being applied to the right things.

Most of the time, whenever investment is needed, the answer is seemingly that there is no money (a major example being MML electrification), but where money does eventually get spent, it’s on things that aren’t needed.

For example, when it comes to the refurbishments, why is money spent on enhancing 360 PIS when the previous solution worked, yet things like thoroughly cleaning the interior ceilings on 170/5s or putting EMR livery on 170207 (the GA livery sticks out like a sore thumb!) haven’t been done? Or, as an unrelated example, why so much money was wasted on getting rotten ex-LNER HSTs into service for a few months in order to achieve negligibly more PRM compliance versus keeping the original EMR HSTs.

I appreciate that there are different ROSCOs involved in the Connect and Regional refurbishments (and that, in the case of 170207, I seem to recall reading about paint warranty issues?), but surely money should have been spent on resolving more fundamental issues as opposed to things that weren’t as much of a priority.

 

[CR165022]

I'd imagine the 3 170s still in Greater Anglia will get repainted, or at the very least vinyled, when it's their turn for interior refurbishment

 

[WesternLancer]

What frustrates me a little with the spend approach in terms of EMR (or things having a major impact on EMR) is that it’s not being applied to the right things.

Most of the time, whenever investment is needed, the answer is seemingly that there is no money (a major example being MML electrification), but where money does eventually get spent, it’s on things that aren’t needed.

For example, when it comes to the refurbishments, why is money spent on enhancing 360 PIS when the previous solution worked, yet things like thoroughly cleaning the interior ceilings on 170/5s or putting EMR livery on 170207 (the GA livery sticks out like a sore thumb!) haven’t been done? Or, as an unrelated example, why so much money was wasted on getting rotten ex-LNER HSTs into service for a few months in order to achieve negligibly more PRM compliance versus keeping the original EMR HSTs.

I appreciate that there are different ROSCOs involved in the Connect and Regional refurbishments (and that, in the case of 170207, I seem to recall reading about paint warranty issues?), but surely money should have been spent on resolving more fundamental issues as opposed to things that weren’t as much of a priority.

My view is that things like meeting targets and performance indicators lead to these sorts of nonsense outcomes - instead of managers being able to aim to achieve the best overall outcome which means the ability to make compromises to get the least worst outcome. All a by product of things like subcontracting, client relationships etc - instead of a whole business approach.
Plus spending other people's money mean your mind is not concentrated in the same way if it was your own funds

 

[Welshy1717]

It seems only two Parkway Express units have been refurbished, at the moment. 360107 & 360109.

i was on a couple of units today, heading to Bedford. these are not refurbished.
360106 & 360116
360120 & 360102

 

[tsyxa]

It seems only two Parkway Express units have been refurbished, at the moment. 360107 & 360109.

i was on a couple of units today, heading to Bedford. these are not refurbished.
360106 & 360116
360120 & 360102

Yep, it’s been this way for quite a few months now. 107 is still yet to see passenger carrying service

 

[Welshy1717]

Yep, it’s been this way for quite a few months now. 107 is still yet to see passenger carrying service

oh wow 1 in service (109) EMR are surely feeling the pressure, faults and staff revolting. they should just call in engineers from Hitachi (they built the 810's didn't they)
let them sort the intercity units out.

 

[Boston Poacher]

Interesting, as that's not what EMR's website says on the matter under the accessibility information (I did check before I posted that!). Was one removed or locked out?

I'd agree that assuming that the website is wrong this is totally inadequate.

Here's the link:

Connect | EMR

Introducing EMR Connect our first electric train service operated with Class 360's. Our EMR Connect trains provide frequent and convenient services between Corby and London St Pancras International

www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk

360s always were 8 coaches before shortages. Does it mean there used to be 2 across the timetabled 8 coaches?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2026 ==

EMR are getting some 221s in to help the intercity unit shortage, nearly finalised.

 

[Mike395]

360s always were 8 coaches before shortages. Does it mean there used to be 2 across the timetabled 8 coaches?

Yes, but with no ability to walk between the sets, there is still only one accessible to passengers at any one time.

 

[Welshy1717]

EMR usually run 4 carriage 360 on weekday afternoon runs, quieter.

 

[E B]

EMR are getting some 221s in to help the intercity unit shortage, nearly finalised.

Do you have a source?

 

[tram21]

EMR usually run 4 carriage 360 on weekday afternoon runs, quieter.

Not true, well at least they certainly don't plan to.

Units should stay in pairs all day with no splitting & joining

 

[liamf656]

Do you have a source?

Discussed in detail in the speculative stopgap thread.

In short, it was reported by Modern Railways and EMR themselves have spoken about a potential third intercity fleet but it'll be one of those "worlds worst secrets" until it gets officially signed off and announced

 

[westcoaster]

Not true, well at least they certainly don't plan to.

Units should stay in pairs all day with no splitting & joining

Only one booked split iirc at St Pancras for the 2215 and 2245 departures to Corby

 

[43102EMR]

It seems only two Parkway Express units have been refurbished, at the moment. 360107 & 360109.

i was on a couple of units today, heading to Bedford. these are not refurbished.
360106 & 360116
360120 & 360102

111 is also refurbished, seen at Kettering Sidings last week with plastic covers over the seats