Eurostar Plus is becoming worse

[speedy1]

If they got BA's PR team to explain the change...

"Due to customer feedback about the overbearing richness of the chocolate, we've enhanced the sweet treat to a delightfully light biscuit"

"Due to customer feedback about the calorific value of the bread roll, we've enhanced the nutrition and introduced a smaller version. This will also reduce the burden on our hard-working staff when carrying the rolls"

 

[williamn]

Dessert on Eurostar Plus this evening.

 

[STINT47]

On my last journey I got my own food before boarding and declined the meal. As I was on Interrail the difference between standard snd plus was only £4.50 so worth it for the seat but I wouldn't pay full price these days.

 

[ivanhoe]

Surely the seating arrangements, space and ambience are the key reasons why people use Eurostar Plus. . It's a bit like getting a bacon cob on EMR First Class in a morning. Nice , but not the reason you're traveling First Class . The food is secondary

 

[jfollows]

Surely the seating arrangements, space and ambience are the key reasons why people use Eurostar Plus. . It's a bit like getting a bacon cob on EMR First Class in a morning. Nice , but not the reason you're traveling First Class . The food is secondary

I think the world - my world anyway - has moved on.
When I first used it, the food offering was important. Especially compared to the rubbish offered on flights.
I was happy paying for the Eurostar service including food, compared to the Standard offering I’d previously used from Waterloo.
Now I use Standard Premium on Avanti and the Eurostar solution is to take my own food, although I haven’t used the latter recently.
Maybe they’ve assessed the market correctly. Without a sensible food offering, and given that I also need a train to London, I’m more likely to fly rather than use Eurostar in future. I’m no longer their customer.

 

[signed]

Everything happening around Eurostar is because they need to milk as much as possible everyone involved before magically stepping up service (and lowering prices) some day in 2030, when something Red will start running

 

[jfollows]

Everything happening around Eurostar is because they need to milk as much as possible everyone involved before magically stepping up service (and lowering prices) some day in 2030, when something Red will start running

Yes, and the Red alternative may tempt me back with its offerings, initially at least.

 

[riceuten]

Yes, and the Red alternative may tempt me back with its offerings, initially at least.

Given the "jam tomorrow approach" Beardie tends to give, I don't share people's optimism that he will actually deliver better services. He will promise to stop at Stratford and in Essex and Kent - and won't because he will expect the state to kit out all of these. He will extend services to [insert name of popular destination here] - and won't, because he will expect the train companies where these stations are situated to shell out to build security and lounge infrastructure to accommodate this. If they say no, so will he.

People forget how many Virgin companies crash and burn. Where is he going to get his bi/trilingual staff and drivers for his trains ? Not the UK, that's for sure. He's notoriously prickly around trade unions and industrial relations, in probably one of the most unionised industries in France, Belgium and the UK.

 

[jfollows]

I agree, I'll need convincing to return to the train.

For me, with an additional leg to get to London as well, it's not about the time (although they're similar) but about the absence of hassle and enjoyment of the journey. When I could get a reasonable First advance ticket to London, this leg was pleasant, the Eurostar was reasonable, and in the return direction I'd usually stop off for lunch with friends in London. But now I'm not enthused by either leg, so in future it will be Air France from Manchester to Paris (because other airlines are forced to park nearer to Calais than Paris on the tarmac at CDG airport) along with the desultory bread roll and burnt coffee.

Plus Saint Pancras has always been overcrowded and unpleasant, definitely worse than any airport once through security.

There is an offering that could tempt me back, but I don't see it in the near future.

Or, to put it another way, the decision will be made on price alone, and I expect that flying will be considerably cheaper.

 

[williamn]

Surely the seating arrangements, space and ambience are the key reasons why people use Eurostar Plus. . It's a bit like getting a bacon cob on EMR First Class in a morning. Nice , but not the reason you're traveling First Class . The food is secondary

I think a lot depends on time of day - if you're travelling at a mealtime the food becomes more important. The journeys are short so personally I don't feel the price charged for Plus is worth it for space alone - I can put up with (maybe) sharing a pair of seats for 2 or 2.5 hours. Plus the ability to move seats right up till departure means that you can often bank on sitting alone in standard.

Travelling London to Glasgow for 4.5 hours however then I'm willing to pay the premium for space along in Standard Premium.

Obviously that's just my lone opinion though.

 

[signed]

IMO the fact that service is getting better is mostly irrelevant, as long as the prices follow in going down, which obviously will happen

Given the "jam tomorrow approach" Beardie tends to give, I don't share people's optimism that he will actually deliver better services. He will promise to stop at Stratford and in Essex and Kent - and won't because he will expect the state to kit out all of these. He will extend services to [insert name of popular destination here] - and won't, because he will expect the train companies where these stations are situated to shell out to build security and lounge infrastructure to accommodate this. If they say no, so will he.

Everybody knows that it won't happen, we have had in the last few years the most nonsensical train proposals that have no chance of getting running (Trenitalia and Renfe to London, Arriva Gronningen-Paris, Midnight Trains, GoVolta High Speed, QBuzz high speed...). Though Ebbsfleet and Ashford are possible, Stratford will never see an international train.

People forget how many Virgin companies crash and burn. Where is he going to get his bi/trilingual staff and drivers for his trains ? Not the UK, that's for sure. He's notoriously prickly around trade unions and industrial relations, in probably one of the most unionised industries in France, Belgium and the UK.

With all the crap around 4th package and SNCF/SNCB being broken up as we speak or soon, I see absolutely no issues, with poaching a lot of qualified drivers that can't get to TGV driving, because they don't have the 15 years of experience required under SNCF, as obviously the salary will be much much higher. People that live in Lille/Paris and neighbouring will flock to it.

This especially now that the alternative for those drivers/staff is getting stuffed into dismal regional subsidiaries with little to no promotion opportunities. Union or not.

With as well that France is anglicising and a lot of the younger population will know enough English that a few days/weeks of classes can get them up to speed.

 

[johncrossley]

I don't see why food has to be inclusive. It makes no sense to me. It only makes sense if everyone wants it. It costs money to provide inclusive food which inevitably means the fare has to go up. Therefore some people who don't want food end up in Standard because the fare is higher than it needs to be which means less money for Eurostar.

 

[riceuten]

IMO the fact that service is getting better is mostly irrelevant, as long as the prices follow in going down, which obviously will happen

Really ? I remember Virgin Trains running 2/3rds empty trains on the West Coast of an afternoon because they charged premium fares at this time and could afford to run lightly loaded trains. Virgin may charge just slightly less than Eurostar to claim they're cheaper, but fares will not plummet.

Everybody knows that it won't happen, we have had in the last few years the most nonsensical train proposals that have no chance of getting running (Trenitalia and Renfe to London, Arriva Gronningen-Paris, Midnight Trains, GoVolta High Speed, QBuzz high speed...). Though Ebbsfleet and Ashford are possible, Stratford will never see an international train.

Couldn't agree with you more. And quite a few that have run have been a disaster (European Sleeper). But it hasn't stopped Branson trying to generate publicity by mooting using it

Virgin approved to use Temple Mills depot and challenge Eurostar

Office of Rail and Road decides Virgin's application to use international depot is more robust than the others.

www.railmagazine.com

With all the crap around 4th package and SNCF/SNCB being broken up as we speak or soon,

Are you alluding to this ?

SNCF Voyageurs to split into two commercial units in 2026

The company seeks to adapt to a market in which it no longer has a monopoly.

www.trenvista.net

I don't see how this will affect the availability of drivers

I see absolutely no issues, with poaching a lot of qualified drivers that can't get to TGV driving, because they don't have the 15 years of experience required under SNCF, as obviously the salary will be much much higher. People that live in Lille/Paris and neighbouring will flock to it.

That may well be wishful thinking

This especially now that the alternative for those drivers/staff is getting stuffed into dismal regional subsidiaries with little to no promotion opportunities. Union or not.

I see zero evidence of this

With as well that France is anglicising and a lot of the younger population will know enough English that a few days/weeks of classes can get them up to speed.

I see a fair bit of wishful thinking here as well

 

[signed]

Really ? I remember Virgin Trains running 2/3rds empty trains on the West Coast of an afternoon because they charged premium fares at this time and could afford to run lightly loaded trains. Virgin may charge just slightly less than Eurostar to claim they're cheaper, but fares will not plummet.

Fares will plummet, at least in the first year or so, because Eurostar will dump its fares way low to discourage people from jumping ship. And they can because their fares are obviously way above breakeven and they just milk people out due to their monopoly.

Are you alluding to this ?

I am talking about the entities that are being created by SNCF/RATP/Transdev to operate the region-tendered routes.
SNCF Voyageurs staff that runs those routes currently (or previously) as TER/Transilien are getting "TUPE"d into those entities. Most TGV drivers are coming out of the TER/Transilien pool of SNCF drivers.

E.g. Transdev Sud, RATP Dev Etoile de Caen, SNCF Voyageurs Etoile d'Amiens...

I don't see how this will affect the availability of drivers

I see zero evidence of this

If currently SNCF Voyageurs staff are getting transferred to Transdev or RATP Dev subsidiaries for example, obviously they won't be able to get promoted into classic mainline/TGV as Transdev/RATP don't operate any of those.

I would be very surprised if there was any external process for TGV recruitment due to how competitive it is. And that's even assuming the SNCF Voyageurs subsidiaries, like SNCF Voyageurs Etoile d'Amiens, count as internal for promotion into SNCF open-access TGV.

This is the kind of thing that will make drivers think about the fact they are stuck where they are with no mobility upwards (outside of management obv) and seek out, and I could realistically see Virgin being prime for those drivers, short of moving somewhere else into a SNCF subsidiary.

I see a fair bit of wishful thinking here as well

This one is, but it's based in reality and stats.

 

[peterinsurrey]

New one for me - I booked (for the first time) a Train+Hotel booking for London to Amsterdam - I can't travel on these dates now - and the booking says you can cancel the hotel, and the trains can be changed (as usually you find on train only bookings). You can't do it online - so I've called the UK number to discuss. They have separate terms for Train+hotel - except it's not worded well as all - under 'Exchanges & cancellation policies':
----

Hotel​

Cancellation policy:​

Free cancellation before 7 September 2026. Your refund will be calculated as below:

• Before Mon, 7 Sep 2026 12:29
  Before Monday 7 September 2026 12:29
  Full refund. Get 100% back of what you paid.
• After Mon, 7 Sep 2026 12:30
  After Monday 7 September 2026 12:30
  No refund.

Your hotel cancellation policy is set by the hotel and confirmed at point of booking.

Exchange policy:​

If you want to change the dates of your booking, exchange fees will apply. Please note, you will keep the same hotel and room type.

Trains​

Exchange policy:​

Up to 1 hour before departure time​

Exchangeable without a fee. If your new ticket is more expensive, you'll pay the difference. If your new ticket is cheaper, the difference will not be refunded.

Cancellation policy:​

Up to 7 days before departure​

Refundable with a €25/£25/$40 fee per person per leg.

Less than 7 days before departure​

Tickets are non-refundable.
----
then, underneath, you have this:
----
Please note each element of your package (Train + Hotel) has its own cancellation policy. You cannot cancel individual elements of your Train + Hotel package booking; you can only cancel your entire Train + Hotel package booking. Any additional travel products (e.g., travel insurance or car hire) booked in addition to your package are not part of your Train + Hotel package and have their own separate exchange and cancellation policies, which can be found on our website.
----

I needed to move the dates to two months later - but there wasn't a choice of just cancelling the hotel, or changing the date of the hotel and the trains, the only options were : cancel the whole booking (and loose £25 per train leg), or a voucher for the full amount. Except - the dates I wanted to move to are very much cheaper - which of course we don't get back in a refund in other ways of booking either. The voucher is only valid for 3 months - so I could book another trip, but then if I wanted to again move the dates (I wouldn't want to make a trip within the booking horizon of the 3 months), then potentially I may be able to change the dates as normal - but of course it might be again a cheaper fare.

The difference for me was £162 if accepted a voucher, or £50 to 'refund'.

I've just been back through the train+hotel booking process to test it, these 'conditions' are only first visible at the checkout page, and not transparent through the selection process that the train conditions are in fact different to the usual process.

 

[williamn]

I don't see why food has to be inclusive. It makes no sense to me. It only makes sense if everyone wants it. It costs money to provide inclusive food which inevitably means the fare has to go up. Therefore some people who don't want food end up in Standard because the fare is higher than it needs to be which means less money for Eurostar.

If they eliminated the food I guarantee you the prices would remain the same. I would bet the cost of food and drink provided would amount to no more than a few pounds.

 

[jon81uk]

If they eliminated the food I guarantee you the prices would remain the same. I would bet the cost of food and drink provided would amount to no more than a few pounds.

The staff serving the food would be the biggest cost saving.

 

[NCT]

Had a couple of return trips on Eurostar over the summer. Yes, breakfast pastries are underwhelming and the dessert downgrade is regrettable. However, the main course has always been tasty, nutritionally balanced with good quality ingredients and the wines have been good too.

 

[Nigel]

I received an email from Eurostar this morning announcing that they are reducing the value of your accrued Club Eurostar loyalty points. The number of points to make a new booking is increasing by 10% across the board. However, if using points to upgrade a booking to Eurostar Plus, they are introducing two tiers - 'value' and 'anytime', presumably based on demand for the services. What used to be 600 points for an upgrade will now be 650 for 'value' and 900 for 'anytime'.
These increases are on top of the doubling in points required that occurred when Eurostar merged with Thalys.

 

[mq90]

I received an email from Eurostar this morning announcing that they are reducing the value of your accrued Club Eurostar loyalty points. The number of points to make a new booking is increasing by 10% across the board. However, if using points to upgrade a booking to Eurostar Plus, they are introducing two tiers - 'value' and 'anytime', presumably based on demand for the services. What used to be 600 points for an upgrade will now be 650 for 'value' and 900 for 'anytime'.
These increases are on top of the doubling in points required that occurred when Eurostar merged with Thalys.

Received that too, I remember the days of 500 points for a one-way ticket. Just a continuous squeeze on passengers.

 

[mad_rich]

There's some discussion of this on Headforpoints. He makes the good point that, as inflation puts fares up, so the points needed for a redemption must increase too - and this is a pretty reasonable increase. (While taking Nigel's point that the scheme suffered a major devaluation a few years ago).

The change to upgrade costs - which is where the best value has been - is more significant.

Club Eurostar devalues - let's look at what is changing

Club Eurostar has announced a modest devaluation, but I think it is manageable and most aspects of the programme won't change at all. Let's take a look.

www.headforpoints.com

 

[Nigel]

There's some discussion of this on Headforpoints. He makes the good point that, as inflation puts fares up, so the points needed for a redemption must increase too - and this is a pretty reasonable increase. (While taking Nigel's point that the scheme suffered a major devaluation a few years ago).

The change to upgrade costs - which is where the best value has been - is more significant.

Club Eurostar devalues - let's look at what is changing

Club Eurostar has announced a modest devaluation, but I think it is manageable and most aspects of the programme won't change at all. Let's take a look.

www.headforpoints.com

I take that argument, but only up to a point. If you have been saving up over a number of years for a free ticket it is a bit galling to see the goalposts move. If you had been saving in cash, you could have earned interest during the time elapsed while you were saving, which hopefully might have covered future price increases. The 'fair' way to have done it, would have been to uprate historic accrued points by 10% at the time the cost of redemption went up by 10%. But I can't see that happening.

 

[SephenWorceste]

I wonder if the 29th of October date is based on the date of booking or the date of travel.

Best wishes, Stephen.