Children in Seats - OAP's standing...

[starrymarkb]

It is my contention that whatever feminists may espouse most ladies still like to have seats offered to them and doors opened or help with their luggage.

Just as well we don't have many female members....

Most feminists just prefer to be treated with respect, and will offer that respect back in return.

Then there is Germain Greer who most feminists hate!

 

[Seacook]

I could be misremembering, but I recall that buses in my area used to carry notices saying that "children must not occupy seats when adults are standing". I think they started to disappear in the 70s or 80s.

As for giving up seats to ladies, I do not offer my seat merely because she is a lady - I offer it because I am a gentleman! (And she may be a he who needs the seat more than I do.)

I never put a bag on a seat if anyone is standing - I might if everyone is seated, but I'll remove it at the next stop.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm sure that in 1960s Newcastle, all the buses had notices that explicitly stated that anyone travelling on a half fare (ie children) was expected to give up their seat to an adult who was standing - does anyone else remember such signs being widespread on buses elsewhere?

Perhaps at that time people assumed rightly or wrongly that it applied to trains as well?

 

[317666]

I give up my seat if somebody asks me politely for it. If someone just gives me dirty looks instead of asking, then no I won't give up my seat. It does annoy me though when people put their bags on seats and don't move them if the train becomes busy (I always move my bag if the train becomes standing room only), or the worst I've seen is on a very busy Pendolino from Glasgow to Euston - some people decided they had the right to take up two seats by curling up and going to sleep on them. I was lucky enough to get a seat, although if I was standing I would've woken them up...

 

[BuhSnarf]

Personally as a parent of a four year old I wouldn't necessarily give the seat up yo an OAP as respect for elders has to be earnt and in most cases on public transport I find OAPs to be anything but respectful whereas my daughter sits perfectly fine, quiet and is always polite to everyone. If I see someone struggling who obviously requires a seat then I will offer mine as I'm able to stand and won't fall over whereas a youngster would!

But I don't determine that on whether they've paid or not. We're all humans.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[90019]

Generally, I won't give up my seat.

However, there are perfectly good reasons behind this, mainly to do with my back, knees, ankles and feet, which mean that after a while standing becomes very uncomfortable, and at times can be quite sore, but because of my age people assume that I must be fit and healthy, meaning I sometimes get pretty nasty looks off people for not giving up my seat to them, which gets pretty irritating after a while.

When I was travelling between Edinburgh and Stirling, I would quite often sit on a luggage rack so I could sit down whilst avoiding the disapproving looks of people who think they're more entitled to a seat than I am.

 

[Butts]

I'm sure that in 1960s Newcastle, all the buses had notices that explicitly stated that anyone travelling on a half fare (ie children) was expected to give up their seat to an adult who was standing - does anyone else remember such signs being widespread on buses elsewhere?

Perhaps at that time people assumed rightly or wrongly that it applied to trains as well?

I think you might be right about the bus and standing up - the Clippies would probably have enforced it.

I've just remembered another deference to ladies - we were taught to stand up when they came into a room

Radical thought - perhaps there should be enough seats fror everyone on a train

On a bus it states how many passengers are permitted ie 42 and 15 standing -I have never seen this on a train.

How is the safe limit of passengers on a train controlled ?

 

[Bon Accord]

How is the safe limit of passengers on a train controlled ?

Well if last night's shambles at Queen Street is anything to go by, it comes down purely to the level of panic amongst station staff/BTP.

 

[RichmondCommu]

When my wife was pregnant and commuting with me in and out of London it always saddened me that very few people were willing to offer her their seat. I always offer my seat to the elderly although many are often too proud to accept my offer.

 

[ainsworth74]

How is the safe limit of passengers on a train controlled ?

There isn't one as such it's basically as many people as you can fit and still get the doors closed.

 

[transportphoto]

This is one event I have experience of...

I was travelling Waterloo (London) to Earlsfield on rush hour and a lady got on at Clapham Junction demanding a seat from me and others around me. Stating that we hadn't paid full fare, we're only children and that back in the day she would have been expected to stand. I politly refused stating that this service is not reservable and that we have paid full fare for our age group.

For all she knew we could have been disabled meaning we couldn't stand. I thought what an absolute disgrace.

TP

 

[4SRKT]

This is one event I have experience of...

I was travelling Waterloo (London) to Earlsfield on rush hour and a lady got on at Clapham Junction demanding a seat from me and others around me. Stating that we hadn't paid full fare, we're only children and that back in the day she would have been expected to stand. I politly refused stating that this service is not reservable and that we have paid full fare for our age group.

For all she knew we could have been disabled meaning we couldn't stand. I thought what an absolute disgrace.

TP

Your use of the word 'lady' is pretty charitable I have to say. I would have refused, but probably not politely, which I guess would just confirm her thinking about how rude young people are (not that I'm young any more tho )

 

[tony_mac]

Personally as a parent of a four year old I wouldn't necessarily give the seat up yo an OAP as respect for elders has to be earnt

And how do they 'earn your respect' exactly?
If you don't offer any respect, why would you get any in return?

If everybody has to 'earn' any respect, then it just means that nobody ever respects anybody else and we end up in a society where everybody just looks after themselves ahead of all others; Oh, wait........

It was perfectly normal behaviour, not so very long ago, for children to give up their seats for adults. I don't see why that is so terrible.
Yes, of course some people have not-obvious disabilities, that doesn't make every single request disgraceful, just in case they are in the relatively small percentage that do.

 

[fairysdad]

Reading this thread reminded me of a few years back when me and little'un (she must've been about three or four at the time I think) boarded a busy train just after Christmas, I had a couple of largeish bags as well as a couple of carriers - was taking her back to her mum's - and an elderly person offered me their seat... Truth be told, I could have done with it, but wanting to set a good example declined. Managed to sit her on one of the luggage bays while I stood in the middle of the aisle.

(The moral of the story being don't take a XC Voyager in the week between Christmas and New Year... or at any time come to think of it...)

 

[ian13]

It can also be impossible to tell when a 'normal' person needs a seat - what if a relatively healthy looking 20-something male has spinal problems or problems with standing for prolonged periods of time?

I'm glad this has been acknowledged. As someone in that category who can struggle after 30+ minutes (depending), I've found it nigh-on impossible to get a seat when (and if) needed - instead, I just resort to the floor.

 

[12CSVT]

I'm sure that in 1960s Newcastle, all the buses had notices that explicitly stated that anyone travelling on a half fare (ie children) was expected to give up their seat to an adult who was standing - does anyone else remember such signs being widespread on buses elsewhere?

Perhaps at that time people assumed rightly or wrongly that it applied to trains as well?

I seem to remember there were similar notices in Blackpool trams in the 1990s

 

[BuhSnarf]

And how do they 'earn your respect' exactly?
If you don't offer any respect, why would you get any in return?

If everybody has to 'earn' any respect, then it just means that nobody ever respects anybody else and we end up in a society where everybody just looks after themselves ahead of all others; Oh, wait........

It was perfectly normal behaviour, not so very long ago, for children to give up their seats for adults. I don't see why that is so terrible.

For me, simply being polite. Sadly that is something that is lacking in a very large majority these days. And I am not just singling out OAPs, but that is who we are talking about here. As.someone mentioned earlier about the pushing around in pound land. Simply ask politely, not the usual stares like it's your God given right. That is all. I am sure that when they were growing up in the 'good old date's it was taught that manners cost nothing.

Of course now there are some absolutley wonderful ones!

In terms of the seat I will always give Mine up, simply because I think it's more comfortable for me to stand than either a fidgety kid who will not be able to stand in one place or for her to sit on my lap causing both me and her discomfort! But I guess that would annoy the OP too!

 

[bb21]

Personally as a parent of a four year old I wouldn't necessarily give the seat up yo an OAP as respect for elders has to be earnt and in most cases on public transport I find OAPs to be anything but respectful whereas my daughter sits perfectly fine, quiet and is always polite to everyone.

Unfortunately on all modes of transport, a non-fare-paying child has no claim to a seat so in theory she does have to give it up.

This is one event I have experience of...

I was travelling Waterloo (London) to Earlsfield on rush hour and a lady got on at Clapham Junction demanding a seat from me and others around me. Stating that we hadn't paid full fare, we're only children and that back in the day she would have been expected to stand. I politly refused stating that this service is not reservable and that we have paid full fare for our age group.

For all she knew we could have been disabled meaning we couldn't stand. I thought what an absolute disgrace.

TP

Indeed. If a senior citizen behaves in a disrespectful manner then I believe that it is only right that they learn the lesson that respect and courtesy is a two-way street.

I once had an elderly gentleman insist that I give up a seat, albeit a priority seat, to him by pointing at the back of a bus. I refused as there are other priority seats which are closer to the door than mine. Some unsavoury comments were spouted so I told him in no uncertain terms that he is a very rude man and that he seemed uneducated in his manners.

If everybody has to 'earn' any respect, then it just means that nobody ever respects anybody else and we end up in a society where everybody just looks after themselves ahead of all others; Oh, wait........

Agreed.

In terms of the seat I will always give Mine up, simply because I think it's more comfortable for me to stand than either a fidgety kid who will not be able to stand in one place or for her to sit on my lap causing both me and her discomfort! But I guess that would annoy the OP too!

I believe this is a good compromise.

 

[GodAtum]

I once had an elderly gentleman insist that I give up a seat, albeit a priority seat, to him by pointing at the back of a bus. I refused as there are other priority seats which are closer to the door than mine. Some unsavoury comments were spouted so I told him in no uncertain terms that he is a very rude man and that he seemed uneducated in his manners.

That happened to me on both a bus and train. On the bus the elderly gentleman asked me however there was a priority seat in front of me with a young guy with hoodie sitting in it. Maybe the elderly gent was too scared to ask him?

 

[BuhSnarf]

Unfortunately on all modes of transport, a non-fare-paying child has no claim to a seat so in theory she does have to give it up

However by that logic oaps should give up there seat for young half fare passenger. As the oap will be travelling for free?

But in majority I completely agree with what you're saying and have no problem giving up my seat. My problem is with those that feel it's a given right. I love your example. For all the people that rattle on about the kids 'these days' there are just as many oldies with a chip on their shoulder!

 

[Bon Accord]

That happened to me on both a bus and train. On the bus the elderly gentleman asked me however there was a priority seat in front of me with a young guy with hoodie sitting in it. Maybe the elderly gent was too scared to ask him?

You're probably not far off the mark there to be honest.

 

[tony_mac]

For me, simply being polite.

But, if you give up your seat anyway, nobody would be impolite, would they?
It has certainly never happened to me!

If somebody gets on with a wheelchair or pushchair and I am in one of the folding seats, I don't just sit there and wait until they ask me to move. If I did, I could understand that they would be less polite about it, as I am making their life difficult for the sake of it.

Sadly that is something that is lacking in a very large majority these days. And I am not just singling out OAPs, but that is who we are talking about here.

You do seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about old people.

From my experience, older people are far less likely to cause me any problems - they don't shout abuse at people on the bus or play their tinny mobile phone music at full volume.

But it's only a fairly small number of younger people that do that - If I said that 'a large majority' of young people were rude and incosiderate then that would be a horrible generalisation and completely untrue.

If a senior citizen behaves in a disrespectful manner then I believe that it is only right that they learn the lesson that respect and courtesy is a two-way street.

I (usually!) prefer to reply with courtesy rather than escalating things - we all have bad days, and you are more likely to have an effect with politeness.

But one thing to consider is that, sometimes, they are coping with constant pain - and just walking and standing is causing them severe problems.
(That can obviously be true of anybody, and isn't an excuse, but may help with understanding).

. My problem is with those that feel it's a given right.

While, yes, that's annoying - that is quite probably how they were brought up. And they would not have had any choice in the matter!

 

[DarloRich]

I would simply thrash the little so and so's then send them to work in a mine or up a chimney - that will learn them

If they were sat in "priority seats" they should either move or be moved by staff. If not then it is up to their "personal moral compass" as to whether they move. I would have done.

However, if they refused then I would have offered my seat to the OAP/disabled person in such an ostentatious way that everyone in the coach looked at the kids and tutted. Works every time! Never under estimate the power of the British tut!

 

[Seacook]

I would simply thrash the little so and so's then send them to work in a mine or up a chimney - that will learn them

No! No! No! I can't let you get away with writing that.


'that will teach them'.

 

[HST Power]

If they were sat in "priority seats" they should either move or be moved by staff.

Easier said that done in many cases.

 

[DarloRich]

No! No! No! I can't let you get away with writing that.


'that will teach them'.

correct - i was trying to be all street and down wit da kidz there!

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Easier said that done in many cases.

it does help being an ex prop forward and northern - that tends to move them!

 

[bb21]

However by that logic oaps should give up there seat for young half fare passenger. As the oap will be travelling for free?

They are, but the difference is that the OAPs are still paying as their fare is paid/subsidised by the local authority. The same applies to half-fare youngsters. The only travelling public that have not paid is a child under the age of 5.

Like I said, I think what you normally do by giving up your own seat instead is probably the best solution.

 

[90019]

The only travelling public that have not paid is a child under the age of 5.

And fare dodgers

 

[causton]

And fare dodgers

No, there are no fare dodgers at all now according to Boris Johnson because the bendy buses are being withdrawn

 

[AndrewP]

First post as this is such a difficult area.

There are many questions and often no right or wrong answers.

I will happily give up my seat to someone I consider needs it more than me but unless it is obvious they want it I will give it up by slinking away to another part of the train (or bus).

When travelling with my small children as under 5s if I really wanted a seat for them I will buy a ticket - a luxury many can't afford - but at least it means they are entitled to it and it makes travelling easier for us. As my kids are now 4 and 6 we can all squeeze onto a double seat and take up the minimum space.

I have seen very little trouble in this area on trains but buses are a different kettle of fish - mainly as there is a sizeable minority of OAPs who think the world revolves around them - my wife was once told by an OAP "I demand that seat" on a busy bus when she was 8 months pregnant - naturally she refused and a row broke out (including a couple of others on the bus who didn't offer their seat even though they were young and vocal - for info I was standing as I was able to and it would have been wrong not to).

I have, unfortunately, stopped routinely giving up my seat to the elderly on buses as I am sick of those trying it on with free passes before they are valid and holding paying passengers up and others who simply look for things to complain about.

I just wish there were easy answers here!!!