Advance Tickets: When you have to use a different train due to cancellations

[DynamicSpirit]

I was intending to travel today Euston-Chester, via:
12:46 LNWR Euston-Crewe (on a LNWR off-peak single), then 15:23 Crewe-Chester - on an advance ticket valid only on that train.

The 12:46 from Euston has been cancelled, along with the 13:46, so I'm going to have to travel on the 14:46 and will miss the connection in Chester by nearly 2 hours. I know in this situation my advance ticket will be valid on a later train to Chester, but how exactly does that work? Do I just board the later train and explain to the guard if challenged? Or do I need to clear it with some other member of staff first?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You are also allowed to travel earlier though this is more for future reference, unless you're already at Euston in which case you have 3 minutes to board the 1146!

Alternatively you could travel via Birmingham on WMT services.

You just board and tell any staff why you're on the other train. They can verify the cancellations if they have any doubt. Show them both tickets. I am assuming here you have left the appropriate connecting time between the two trains. However if you've got loads of time spare standing around at Euston asking them to endorse and stamp your ticket regarding the delay may make things easier (or a bit of paper if it's an e-ticket).

If the staff are ill informed or awkward and insist on issuing a new ticket or a Penalty Fare, do not refuse this. Both of these are easier to resolve afterwards with customer services/appeals than dealing with a prosecutions department if an MG11 is issued. However you will probably be fine.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

You are also allowed to travel earlier though this is more for future reference, unless you're already at Euston in which case you have 3 minutes to board the 1146!

Alternatively you could travel via Birmingham on WMT services.

You just board and tell any staff why you're on the other train. They can verify the cancellations if they have any doubt. Show them both tickets. I am assuming here you have left the appropriate connecting time between the two trains. However if you've got loads of time spare standing around at Euston asking them to endorse and stamp your ticket regarding the delay may make things easier (or a bit of paper if it's an e-ticket).

OK thanks, that sounds reasonable. But no, not at Euston. I checked before setting off and realised there's no point my heading to Euston just yet.

So you mean, if I had managed to get the 11:46 from Euston, I would be allowed to board an earlier Crewe-Chester train?

 

[Haywain]

You should ask LNR/WMT how they are going to assist you in making the journey. In the circumstances they really should be arranging for your ticket to be accepted on Avanti to get you to Crewe.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So you mean, if I had managed to get the 11:46 from Euston, I would be allowed to board an earlier Crewe-Chester train?

This is for some debate, though you'd at least have been able to make your booked train even if it meant having a pint for an hour at Crewe.

 

[Huntergreed]

I was intending to travel today Euston-Chester, via:
12:46 LNWR Euston-Crewe (on a LNWR off-peak single), then 15:23 Crewe-Chester - on an advance ticket valid only on that train.

The 12:46 from Euston has been cancelled, along with the 13:46, so I'm going to have to travel on the 14:46 and will miss the connection in Chester by nearly 2 hours. I know in this situation my advance ticket will be valid on a later train to Chester, but how exactly does that work? Do I just board the later train and explain to the guard if challenged? Or do I need to clear it with some other member of staff first?

Under Article 16 of the PRO, I believe you have the right to travel on Avanti up to Crewe and then change to make your original, booked train to Chester.

You would likely need to purchase a ticket valid on Avanti and then claim this back from LNWR, but you would technically have a right to this as I understand it.

If you’re in a position to do this and don’t mind having to claim back for your Avanti ticket, it might be worth considering this?

Update: As ticket acceptance has been arranged, you no longer need to buy a new ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It appears acceptance is already in place, though with very odd wording that is strangely Milton Keynes centric:

Live Travel Updates

Real-time train line status and disruption informationClick the ‘+’ next to each route for details of any changes to train services, train facilities and station facilities. We update this information as we get it. During disruption, we’ll outline what’s happening plus any alternative transport...

www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk

There are issues affecting services on this route:​

• Between Stafford and Rugby
  

  Problem:​

  Due to the emergency services dealing with an incident between Stafford and Rugby the line is blocked.
  

  Impact:​

  Train services running through these stations will be cancelled or delayed. Disruption is expected to last until around 12:30 today (24 July).
  

  Our advice:​

  Your ticket can be used at no extra cost on Avanti West Coast services between Milton Keynes Central and Crewe in both directions until further notice.
  Your ticket can be used at no extra cost on Avanti West Coast services between Crewe and Liverpool Lime Street in both directions until further notice.
  Your ticket can be used at no extra cost on Avanti West Coast services between London Euston and Milton Keynes Central in both directions until further notice.

I assume Avanti will be diverting via Birmingham.

 

[Haywain]

Under Article 16 of the PRO, I believe you have the right to travel on Avanti up to Crewe and then change to make your original, booked train to Chester.

No, you don't. You have the right to be rerouted by the operator, but not the right to just do it yourself.

It appears acceptance is already in place, though with very odd wording that is strangely Milton Keynes centric:

That looks like it's been written in instalments!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It appears acceptance is already in place, though with very odd wording that is strangely Milton Keynes centric:

Live Travel Updates

Real-time train line status and disruption informationClick the ‘+’ next to each route for details of any changes to train services, train facilities and station facilities. We update this information as we get it. During disruption, we’ll outline what’s happening plus any alternative transport...

www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk

I assume Avanti will be diverting via Birmingham.

OK thanks. That does look potentially helpful, although with a teensy issue that I have a bike with me so can't get it on Avanti unless I find a train I can book on

 

[Bletchleyite]

OK thanks. That does look potentially helpful, although with a teensy issue that I have a bike with me so can't get it on Avanti unless I find a train I can book on

You can do this using the TransPennine Express sales site if you want to do it without friction, or pop into the booking office. Or use WMT services via Birmingham - I'm guessing that there's a reasonable chance given the situation that later Crewe services will be cancelled too so there's probably no point waiting around for it.

 

[pwharley]

The 12:46 is still running, according to RTT.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C17897/2026-07-24/detailed#allox_id=0

It appears LNWR were planning to run a VST service from Rugby at 1127½ to get a unit to Euston for it.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:98222/2026-07-24/detailed

However, this has not yet departed, so the 12:46 is still dubious.
I suggest you get to EUS ASAP and follow the advice in Bletchleyite's post #7. There's no guarantee the 14:46 will run at this stage, so get to Crewe with Avanti.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jul 2026 ==

The train for the 12:46 is now at platform 13 and will depart shortly.
I hope you are on it, or an alternative service.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

You can do this using the TransPennine Express sales site if you want to do it without friction, or pop into the booking office. Or use WMT services via Birmingham - I'm guessing that there's a reasonable chance given the situation that later Crewe services will be cancelled too so there's probably no point waiting around for it.

Thanks. I can't see how to do that on the Tpe site. I recall gwr used to allow that too. Does anyone happen to know?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jul 2026 ==

Now at Euston but queues at booking office are so long that I suspect I'll miss more trains queuing for them to book a bike

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jul 2026 ==

One nice thing is the departure boards do explicitly say which Avanti trains lnwr tickets are valid on today

 

[MarlowDonkey]

One nice thing is the departure boards do explicitly say which Avanti trains lnwr tickets are valid on today

I was at Euston a few weeks ago when my planned train and a few others were cancelled. The mega sized departure board was good at indicating which alternative service to take. As it happened I had an unrestricted off peak ticket, so the question of which operator didn't arise.

In passing, what's going to happen when both Avanti and LNW/WMR under both under GBR? Services from Euston are a current example where the "most stations slower trains" operator is cheaper than the "Inter City fast trains limited stop" one.

 

[signed]

Thanks. I can't see how to do that on the Tpe site. I recall gwr used to allow that too. Does anyone happen to know?

GWR has re-enabled it, and the flow on TPE is the same (go into your account and then you have the option for a seat/bike rezo)

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 1246 departed at 1309 - bit confused why the original poster didn't board it!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jul 2026 ==

In passing, what's going to happen when both Avanti and LNW/WMR under both under GBR? Services from Euston are a current example where the "most stations slower trains" operator is cheaper than the "Inter City fast trains limited stop" one.

Given that the automatic cross acceptance for a cancellation (but irritatingly not a missed connection) between all the DfTO TOCs has just been extended to the full set, I expect the answer is automatic acceptance once Avanti is brought into the fold.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

All sorted. Lnwr have it seems managed to restore the 13:46 eus to Crewe (previously cancelled then showing as eus to rugby only) so I'm now on that waiting to depart

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jul 2026 ==

Thanks for your help everyone

 

[saismee]

Given that the automatic cross acceptance for a cancellation (but irritatingly not a missed connection) between all the DfTO TOCs has just been extended to the full set, I expect the answer is automatic acceptance once Avanti is brought into the fold.

As it should be. It brings precisely zero additional cost to Avanti to carry these passengers so there is no reason not to.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The 1246 departed at 1309 - bit confused why the original poster didn't board it!

That was because at the time I was about to set off for Euston both it and the 13:46 were showing as cancelled so I figured it wasn't worth going to Euston for a while. Ironically it was just after 1pm I arrived but if that train was running I didn't notice it on the departure screens

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Given that the automatic cross acceptance for a cancellation (but irritatingly not a missed connection) between all the DfTO TOCs has just been extended to the full set, I expect the answer is automatic acceptance once Avanti is brought into the fold.

Given the row over Gatwick Express GTR pricing by brand, I was wondering whether it would still be possible once all the Euston services are under the same roof. Burt perhaps the rules under which GBR operates will be modified to allow price differentiation by brand rather than TOC.

 

[pwharley]

That was because at the time I was about to set off for Euston both it and the 13:46 were showing as cancelled so I figured it wasn't worth going to Euston for a while. Ironically it was just after 1pm I arrived but if that train was running I didn't notice it on the departure screens

I suspect it had been removed from the departure screens because it was about to depart.

 

[Djgr]

Given the row over Gatwick Express GTR pricing by brand, I was wondering whether it would still be possible once all the Euston services are under the same roof. Burt perhaps the rules under which GBR operates will be modified to allow price differentiation by brand rather than TOC.

Assuming that there are still privatisation era baked bean type brands in the post-private era.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jul 2026 ==

It appears acceptance is already in place, though with very odd wording that is strangely Milton Keynes centric:

Live Travel Updates

Real-time train line status and disruption informationClick the ‘+’ next to each route for details of any changes to train services, train facilities and station facilities. We update this information as we get it. During disruption, we’ll outline what’s happening plus any alternative transport...

www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk

I assume Avanti will be diverting via Birmingham.

This disruption affects trains all the way to Scotland. It has now been amended (way too late) to include the use of TPE north of Preston.

My daughter and partner were meant to be travelling between Preston and Penrith on one of these failed Avanti trains. I told them to take the TPE instead and be prepared to talk very loudly with any ontrain personnel.

 

[mickey]

Given the row over Gatwick Express GTR pricing by brand, I was wondering whether it would still be possible once all the Euston services are under the same roof. Burt perhaps the rules under which GBR operates will be modified to allow price differentiation by brand rather than TOC.

There is precisely zero chance that differential fares will disappear. On the WC, if you removed the current LNR fares then all it would do is remove a chunk of custom from the railway, leading to those fancy new trains carrying only air for much of the day, and cause political uproar in several marginal seats. And very obviously intercity fares won’t be reduced to match them, so a way will be found to maintain the status quo. Similarly with route restrictions (e.g. High Wycombe). Imo too many people are assuming far too much of GBR - and note that all other countries with state operators maintain differential fares at some level, such as Germany with Regio vs IC/E, France with TER vs TGV, and even the US with NER vs Acela.

What should change is standardisation of disruption-related inter-acceptance, which is a good thing.

 

[Sonic1234]

Given the row over Gatwick Express GTR pricing by brand, I was wondering whether it would still be possible once all the Euston services are under the same roof. Burt perhaps the rules under which GBR operates will be modified to allow price differentiation by brand rather than TOC.

Probably will stay and be enforceable on the what will be former GTR brands. GBR (Thameslink) won't want money being assigned to GBR (Southern)

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I'm curious what the cause of the disruption was. It was announced as being an earlier incident at Atherstone. The LNWR train I was on didn't stop at Atherstone, but also to my surprise went through Atherstone (Northbound) on the fast Southbound line, only reverting to the usual line just outside Tamworth (I didn't even realise the lines were signalled to allow that). The guard also said anyone wanting Atherstone should change at Tamworth and get a train freom there. I'd infer from that that whatever happened at Atherstone presumably put both the Northbound lines out of action.

 

[Vexed]

The 1246 departed at 1309 - bit confused why the original poster didn't board it!

That was because at the time I was about to set off for Euston both it and the 13:46 were showing as cancelled so I figured it wasn't worth going to Euston for a while. Ironically it was just after 1pm I arrived but if that train was running I didn't notice it on the departure screens

The platform was publicly advertised for 4 minutes between 13:05 and 13:09. It was partly cancelled and would have been showing as calling at MKC and Rugby only so in hindsight the OP didn't lose out on much.

 

[317 forever]

When my TPE train to Liverpool was cancelled on Wednesday, the assistant at the information desk at Sheffield recommended the earlier EMR train. I questioned whether my Advance ticket would be valid and he remarked the train companies work together now.

Admittedly I was only travelling as far as Stockport and no inspector came to refute that promise anyway.

 

[185143]

When my TPE train to Liverpool was cancelled on Wednesday, the assistant at the information desk at Sheffield recommended the earlier EMR train. I questioned whether my Advance ticket would be valid and he remarked the train companies work together now.

Admittedly I was only travelling as far as Stockport and no inspector came to refute that promise anyway.

Some TOCs are better at it than others!

Routes like Sheffield-Manchester-Liverpool are a prime example of where teamwork needs to work well. And in my experience, does. Three TOCs invovled, who all either have had, or do have issues with reliability and capacity. They are all equally likely to need to bail each other out.

And ultimately, unlike some other routes, certainly between TPE and EMR (1st class aside) there is pretty much no difference these days. Both TOCs run express services each hour, usually with catering and very similar calling patterns and journey times. That isn't a route where people are choosing a certain TOC because they prefer it, or it's significantly cheaper. They're likely to be choosing a certain train because that is the best timed service for their needs on the whole. On a route where the road alternative is so poor, people are more reliant on the trains. Such flexibility seems such an easy win for the industry.

Scenario 1:

12:11 is cancelled. Passenger is told to wait for the 13:11 but will miss their connection to Glasgow. So will then have another hour to wait in Manchester and arrive two hours late.

Scenario 2:

Passenger gets notified by Trainline that the 12:11 is cancelled. Gets to the station in time to get the 11:43, which their ticket is automatically valid on. Has time for a brew in Manchester and to get some supplies for the journey en route. Travels up to Glasgow on their original train.

See the difference? One is a miserable experience, results in a lot of hanging about and (no doubt) stress over seats on the next onward train, as well as costing the railway a 100% delay repay claim. The other is certainly inconvenient, but much better customer service and once the passenger is on the move, a much less stressful journey than their original itinerary could have been.

 

[Sonic1234]

no inspector came to refute that promise anyway.

But you spend the journey worrying that will happen.

Anyone who says that the train is the low stress way to travel needs to travel, albeit legitimately, on the wrong train and wrong operator using an Advance.

 

[317 forever]

Some TOCs are better at it than others!

Routes like Sheffield-Manchester-Liverpool are a prime example of where teamwork needs to work well. And in my experience, does. Three TOCs invovled, who all either have had, or do have issues with reliability and capacity. They are all equally likely to need to bail each other out.

And ultimately, unlike some other routes, certainly between TPE and EMR (1st class aside) there is pretty much no difference these days. Both TOCs run express services each hour, usually with catering and very similar calling patterns and journey times. That isn't a route where people are choosing a certain TOC because they prefer it, or it's significantly cheaper. They're likely to be choosing a certain train because that is the best timed service for their needs on the whole. On a route where the road alternative is so poor, people are more reliant on the trains. Such flexibility seems such an easy win for the industry.

Scenario 1:

12:11 is cancelled. Passenger is told to wait for the 13:11 but will miss their connection to Glasgow. So will then have another hour to wait in Manchester and arrive two hours late.

Scenario 2:

Passenger gets notified by Trainline that the 12:11 is cancelled. Gets to the station in time to get the 11:43, which their ticket is automatically valid on. Has time for a brew in Manchester and to get some supplies for the journey en route. Travels up to Glasgow on their original train.

See the difference? One is a miserable experience, results in a lot of hanging about and (no doubt) stress over seats on the next onward train, as well as costing the railway a 100% delay repay claim. The other is certainly inconvenient, but much better customer service and once the passenger is on the move, a much less stressful journey than their original itinerary could have been.

It is better customer care to allow the sensible flexibility in such circumstances like you say.

It also has the advantage that it spreads the passengers from the cancelled trains to the running trains either side, rather than forcing everybody with Advance tickets onto the following train, or train from the "right" TOC.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Aug 2026 ==

But you spend the journey worrying that will happen.

Anyone who says that the train is the low stress way to travel needs to travel, albeit legitimately, on the wrong train and wrong operator using an Advance.

Indeed, people have been caught out by station staff saying one thing and train staff saying another.

I reckon in part that the reason no inspector came is that my substitute train was itself 20 minutes late. Sometimes inspectors don't feel like facing passengers disgruntled by the delay on their trains!

 

[MarlowDonkey]

What should change is standardisation of disruption-related inter-acceptance, which is a good thing.

Another question is what rights you have when you hold an otherwise flexible ticket which is operator specific? Your intended train is cancelled and the next by that operator is not scheduled for a couple of hours or more. Are you entitled to use another operator? If instead you held an Advance for the cancelled service, are your rights any greater?