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How will the Oxford - Cowley Branch be operated?

Oxfordblues

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I do wonder if a robust train plan can be compiled using the existing infrastructure. A train coming off the Cowley branch would need to cross over the Up line at Kennington Junction to access a spare slot on the Down Line before finding an empty Platform 4 or 5 at Oxford Station, then cross over the Down Fast, Up Fast and Up Relief at Oxford North/Aristotle Lane. Good luck with that!
 
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Trainman40083

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I do wonder if a robust train plan can be compiled using the existing infrastructure. A train coming off the Cowley branch would need to cross over the Up line at Kennington Junction to access a spare slot on the Down Line before finding an empty Platform 4 or 5 at Oxford Station, then cross over the Down Fast, Up Fast and Up Relief at Oxford North/Aristotle Lane. Good luck with that!
Any chance of some bi directional running?
 

Zomboid

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I do wonder if a robust train plan can be compiled using the existing infrastructure. A train coming off the Cowley branch would need to cross over the Up line at Kennington Junction to access a spare slot on the Down Line before finding an empty Platform 4 or 5 at Oxford Station, then cross over the Down Fast, Up Fast and Up Relief at Oxford North/Aristotle Lane. Good luck with that!
Isn't the idea to install a new (presumably) reversible relief line between Oxford and Kennington? Not sure which direction(s) it would be used for, though.
 

Zomboid

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My guess is that northbound trains will use the reversible relief line to platform 3. Southbound would use the relief unless they need to pass a northbound between Oxford and the junction, in which case they'd use the up main. Not normally any need to cross the formation to get to the down main in either direction.

At Oxford itself, P4 becomes the up main platform (or at least is used for up trains when P3 is needed for a Cowley train) and P5 the down main. 1 & 2 are then available for EWR trains.
 

cle

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My guess is that northbound trains will use the reversible relief line to platform 3. Southbound would use the relief unless they need to pass a northbound between Oxford and the junction, in which case they'd use the up main. Not normally any need to cross the formation to get to the down main in either direction.

At Oxford itself, P4 becomes the up main platform (or at least is used for up trains when P3 is needed for a Cowley train) and P5 the down main. 1 & 2 are then available for EWR trains.
If P3 is exclusively for Marylebone-Cowley services (4 per hour, 2 each way?) - my only thought is about terminators which would logically sit in P4 before heading back south.

For example, the 1tph Paddington terminator, and Bristol-Oxford. And Didcot shuttles if not heading on to Banbury - these might beed to be standardized.

Maybe these will be shunted - I can't see there being time given the 2tph XC and 1tph Cotswolds.
 

zwk500

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Isn't P4 going to be reasonably busy with the terminating services? Although that may relieve enough pressure of 3 to allow a reversible move, I suspect the service may still need to route via 4/5 an cross at Oxford North.

But I'm sure the government had a full operational feasibility study before hurriedly announcing the project....
 

Zomboid

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If P3 is exclusively for Marylebone-Cowley services (4 per hour, 2 each way?) - my only thought is about terminators which would logically sit in P4 before heading back south.

For example, the 1tph Paddington terminator, and Bristol-Oxford. And Didcot shuttles if not heading on to Banbury - these might beed to be standardized.

Maybe these will be shunted - I can't see there being time given the 2tph XC and 1tph Cotswolds.
Terminating trains from the south are often shunted at present. There are some southbound departures from P4, but in my experience most go via the sidings and depart from P3.

Occupancy of 3 will depend on how long it takes to get up and down the branch, which I don't know what the aim is. They might end up passing close to the station and leaving 20 minute gaps with no movements from 3.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

But I'm sure the government had a full operational feasibility study before hurriedly announcing the project....
It has been cooking for a while, I'm sure someone had at least some idea what was likely to be needed.
 

JamesT

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I'm failing to find it now, but I'm sure I saw some track diagrams showing you could get across to the down line from the branch. The implication being that branch trains would use both platforms 3 and 4 in the normal directions. Is the reversible relief line even part of the branch line scheme?
 

zwk500

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Terminating trains from the south are often shunted at present. There are some southbound departures from P4, but in my experience most go via the sidings and depart from P3.

Occupancy of 3 will depend on how long it takes to get up and down the branch, which I don't know what the aim is. They might end up passing close to the station and leaving 20 minute gaps with no movements from 3.
For the wrong-road move you normally need 4 minutes after the previous departure, then the 1-2 min stop, then 4 minutes until the next right-time arrival. And that's assuming all Up traffic runs on the Main Line, reducing the conflict purely to the platform.

At the moment, southbound departures of the 2tph GWR IC to Paddington and 2tph XC are spread out are close to 15 minutes interval. 1 of those will be starting from P4, but the other 3 come from north of Oxford so can't. Then consider the Banburys, and potentially at least some of the other terminating trains as P4 is unlikely to remove the need for all shunting. Suddenly there aren't many 10 min gaps left. If the existing paths through Bicester are maintained, then it looks quite tight between the Southbound XC and northbound ex-Cowley.

I expect the Cowley services will end up using 3 in some hours and 4/5 in others.
 

Zomboid

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It does look as though a southbound through from P4 would need to move across to the down main at Oxford North, which might not be ideal (though down trains from 4/5 mostly seem to use the relief in my experience, so it may work. The Oxford North crossovers are high speed at least, and the others are close enough to the platforms that stopping trains won't be moving fast.

But ideally you would want to keep the Cowley to Parkway trains on the eastern tracks to avoid two crossings of the Cherwell/ Cotswold to Didcot Up main.

(It's hard to talk in terms of up and down trains since you go both north and south to get to London...).
 

zwk500

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It does look as though a southbound through from P4 would need to move across to the down main at Oxford North, which might not be ideal (though down trains from 4/5 mostly seem to use the relief in my experience, so it may work. The Oxford North crossovers are high speed at least, and the others are close enough to the platforms that stopping trains won't be moving fast.

But ideally you would want to keep the Cowley to Parkway trains on the eastern tracks to avoid two crossings of the Cherwell/ Cotswold to Didcot Up main.
Ideally yes, although as all passenger trains stop at Oxford, the ex-Cowley train would only need to clear Kennington South Jn as the train from Platform 3 is departing, and equally would be able to have a slightly longer time in the platform if the following train from Wolvercote needed to pass ahead of it before departing towards Bicester.

Freight is arguably a bigger problem although much of it is booked to stand in the Oxford/Hinksey area anyway. And if the platform needs to be vacated you can hold an ex-Cowley on the middle road at Oxford North Jn while the other trains run on the outer line (I can't remember if the Relief and Main are switched here to reflect the preference for Northbound freight to be held on the inner line.

Another problem here is that southbound trains often use the Up Relief to Hinksey North Jn to allow freight to be pulled up clear of the north end of Oxford station. Which means the 10 minutes for a wrong-road moved thorugh 3 will be more like 13-15.
(It's hard to talk in terms of up and down trains since you go both north and south to get to London...).
Yes, the Up Chiltern Trains run in the same direction as the Down EWR between Oxford and Bicester, it's all very railway!
 
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cle

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Will the Marylebone services be evened out in terms of stopping pattern and timing, as currently they are not uniform and I would imagine that is needed for the Cowley line? I think there are 3tph in some peak patterns - maybe non-standards could still terminate in P1/2.
 

JamesT

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Will the Marylebone services be evened out in terms of stopping pattern and timing, as currently they are not uniform and I would imagine that is needed for the Cowley line? I think there are 3tph in some peak patterns - maybe non-standards could still terminate in P1/2.
It may help, but I don't think it's strictly needed. Cowley to Oxford has been reported as being 9 minutes. The shortest gap I've found from a very brief look at RTT today is 18 minutes, so the first train could be out and back before the second has left Oxford.
 

The Planner

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It may help, but I don't think it's strictly needed. Cowley to Oxford has been reported as being 9 minutes. The shortest gap I've found from a very brief look at RTT today is 18 minutes, so the first train could be out and back before the second has left Oxford.
Does that include the turnaround?
 

Zomboid

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With a sensible turnaround (considering the train is from London), I'd probably expect up & down trains to pass somewhere near Oxford station. Looking at today's timetable Marylebone trains sit at Oxford for 10 minutes before returning from whence they came, so to maintain the same paths it'd pass 5 minutes to the south, and have a long layover at Cowley.
 

JamesT

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Does that include the turnaround?
No. But it also doesn’t include the 3 minutes to go from Oxford to Kennington Junction. Which implies 12 minutes plus the turnaround to do the branch. An even half hour would be better to have some buffer at Cowley to make up on delays, but it still looks possible.

With a sensible turnaround (considering the train is from London), I'd probably expect up & down trains to pass somewhere near Oxford station. Looking at today's timetable Marylebone trains sit at Oxford for 10 minutes before returning from whence they came, so to maintain the same paths it'd pass 5 minutes to the south, and have a long layover at Cowley.
Interesting they seem to be going in and out of the same platform with a 10 minute layover. I’m sure previously their operation has been for them to alternate platforms so a train might sit there for 40 minutes.
 

CR165022

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Interesting they seem to be going in and out of the same platform with a 10 minute layover. I’m sure previously their operation has been for them to alternate platforms so a train might sit there for 40 minutes.
They used to, but now they can only use one platform as EWR would use the other.
 

cle

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They used to, but now they can only use one platform as EWR would use the other.
I do wonder about having 4-5 EWR trains per hour (once we get out of the starting blocks, but that is another issue!) - plus the 2 to Cowley all coming in from Oxford Parkway. What a great metro service between Oxford, there and Bicester by the way.

And if Oxford is rebuilt with p2 going 'through' and that as an island, I still think 1 bay will be insufficient for EWR, for resilience and possible extras from Chiltern. Ideally they could keep two bays - could another be added?

The western island ideally would have had them too - although I know the roads don't match up with the bridge. But Oxford is going to see a whole lot of new services and frequency in the coming years, and current plans seems inadequate. Also expected passenger growth (and attractiveness to employers etc)...
 

JamesT

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And if Oxford is rebuilt with p2 going 'through' and that as an island, I still think 1 bay will be insufficient for EWR, for resilience and possible extras from Chiltern. Ideally they could keep two bays - could another be added?

The western island ideally would have had them too - although I know the roads don't match up with the bridge. But Oxford is going to see a whole lot of new services and frequency in the coming years, and current plans seems inadequate. Also expected passenger growth (and attractiveness to employers etc)...
I don’t think there’s any space to expand to the East. You’ve got non-railway property up against the northern end of platform 1, then you’re almost immediately hitting the Sheepwash Channel bridge.

If they do put in a through platform 2, they’re not going to restrict EWR to terminating at Oxford. Running at least some services through to Didcot is the obvious one, there have also been proposals for Bristol.

Platform 4 effectively fulfils the purpose of a south-facing bay when the Western island is completed. Hanborough has also been suggested as somewhere to send trains otherwise terminating in Oxford from the South.
 

cle

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If they do put in a through platform 2, they’re not going to restrict EWR to terminating at Oxford. Running at least some services through to Didcot is the obvious one, there have also been proposals for Bristol.
every EWR report has had it so (turning at Oxford) - and I believe capacity to Didcot is hard won. We have to hope that the 2pth semi fast EMUs can eventually return to their home at Oxford too - and those would be prime P4 fodder.

Agree that Hanborough (or hourly to Banbury, and kill off those shuttles too) is better to push all the fasts through P5. P4 would be purely the semis to Paddington, and maybe Bristol. Should be doable.
 

Oxfordblues

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I note today that vegetation clearance has been taking place on the Up side between Hinksey North and Kennington North. Could this perhaps be in anticipation of the eventual reinstatement of the Up Relief line?
 

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