Old London Underground trains

[47296lastduff]

Recently I read a crime novel set in the 1950s, where a suspect was pursued by police on an LU train. He opened the door at the end of car and the door to the next car to enter it as part of his attempt to evade them.

This reminded to me of being on such trains in the 1960s, and seeing some passengers moving through these doors. I never managed to establish whether this was permitted, especially as it seemed that the transit was made in an open gap between cars (and dangerous?)

Can anybody confirm if this was allowed, and was it really as hazardous as I thought?
Also, when was such stock last in public use please?

 

[hexagon789]

Recently I read a crime novel set in the 1950s, where a suspect was pursued by police on an LU train. He opened the door at the end of car and the door to the next car to enter it as part of his attempt to evade them.
This reminded to me of being on such trains in the 1960s, and seeing some passengers moving through these doors.
I never managed to establish whether this was permitted, especially as it seemed that the transit was made in an open gap between cars (and dangerous?).
Can anybody confirm if this was allowed, and was it really as hazardous as I thought?
Also, when was such stock last in public use please?

1972 and 1973 stock still has doors between cars like this.

It may have changed, but the signs used to say the doors should only be used when stationary rather than a total prohibition against use.

 

[StephenHunter]

Potentially hazardous if you missed your footing for whatever reason, yes.

 

[43096]

1972 and 1973 stock still has doors between cars like this.

It may have changed, but the signs used to say the doors should only be used when stationary rather than a total prohibition against use.

The signage now has two parts. A yellow warning "Danger Risk of death if used when train is moving" and a red prohibition "Emergency access only".

So, it is expressly prohibited, except in an emergency. Which is what you'd expect.

 

[hexagon789]

The signage now has two parts. A yellow warning "Danger Risk of death if used when train is moving" and a red prohibition "Emergency access only".

So, it is expressly prohibited, except in an emergency. Which is what you'd expect.

Been over 20 years since I last used the Piccadilly, so I'd be curious as to whether the signage was the same then and its a false memory or whether it has been, understandably, prohibited except in emergency since.

 

[bramling]

Been over 20 years since I last used the Piccadilly, so I'd be curious as to whether the signage was the same then and its a false memory or whether it has been, understandably, prohibited except in emergency since.

ISTR the wording was something along the lines of “Emergency exit to next car” and “Danger do not use while train is moving”.

I don’t think there was ever an intention for them to be used except in emergency, though then as now not everyone observes this.

Nowadays there are inner inter car barriers which have reduced the risk somewhat. ISTR there was a fatality on the Central Line when someone used one on a terminating train at Liverpool Street, though due to no cctv the precise circumstances were never known.

 

[Rescars]

Recalling the old sub-surface lines stock, there were certainly no bellows type corridor connectors between the cars. Were there fall plates to cover the couplings? With none of this, walking from one car to the next whilst on the move and in the dark involved unnecessary perils. IIRC the doors opened inwards into each carriage. Opening the door of the next carriage could be problematic if someone was leaning against it on the other side, especially if they had luggage with them.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

ISTR the wording was something along the lines of “Emergency exit to next car” and “Danger do not use while train is moving”.

I don’t think there was ever an intention for them to be used except in emergency, though then as now not everyone observes this.

That coincides with my memory of fifty years ago or more. It's only with the full width gangways of the S stock and similar, that it's been possible to move down the train on the Underground.

 

[Dstock7080]

1972 and 1973 stock still has doors between cars like this.

+ 1992, 1995, 1996 and 2009 Stock still have swing communicating doors.


Prior to the 1990s refurbishment programme when additional signage placed onto the communicating door window glass, a simple discrete sign read:
“Emergency door to next car”
©Bowroaduk

 

[47296lastduff]

Thanks for the replies.
As I remember it, when I first saw these trains there were no signs by the doors, and that was why I wondered what was allowed or prohibited.
This was well before the first health and safety laws of 1974.

 

[edwin_m]

I believe there is at least one place on the Underground where curvature means anyone trying to get between coaches it at serious risk of being crushed even if they don't fall.

 

[norbitonflyer]

As far as i am aware all Underground cars had these emergency end doors to allow evacuation of a train in a tunnel, with the exceptions of:

• Metropolitan Compartment stock
• "gate" stock (which had verandahs supervised by gatemen)
• S Stock
• the new Piccadilly stock.

They were definitely not supposed to be used except in emergency, and I have only seen them used on three occasions
1. On Standard Stock on the Isle of Wight in 1977, when the conductor-guard used it to move down the train checking/selling tickets
2. On, I think,1959 stock on the Northern Line c 1978, when a man moved into my carriage from the next one - reason unknown
3. On 1983 stock at Green Park in 1986, when the doors in my carriage failed to open (having also failed to open at the previous stop). Passengers started to try to leave the train by transferring to the next carriage (where the doors were working - I felt compelled to pull the communication handle when the train started to move off as people were still climbing across.
(that was the second and most rcent tiem I've had occasion to pull the cord - the other was when a fellow passenger had an epiliptic fit just as my train was leaving Waterloo, and i judged it was easier to get him medical attention there rather than at Vauxhall, or indeed on the viaduct between stations should some well-meaning but misguided person pull the chain between stations)

 

[Beebman]

Very sadly, sometime around 1990 the 1962 stock train I was riding on was involved in a 'one-under' on entering Shepherds Bush Station on the westbound and everybody was evacuated by walking through the train and through the driver's cab onto the platform.

 

[Harpo]

My commuting began when the District and Bakerloo still had red stock, CO/CP and 38 respectively. I can’t remember ever seeing the end doors being opened by passengers but, much like older stock today, standing by the leading end door with the drop light down was the coolest spot on the train.

 

[edwin_m]

I've seen one of the people that passes through Tube trains begging for money use these doors with the train in motion.

 

[Dstock7080]

As far as i am aware all Underground cars had these emergency end doors to allow evacuation of a train in a tunnel, with the exceptions of:

• "gate" stock (which had verandahs supervised by gatemen)

Central London and City & South London locomotives and hauled gate-cars had end doors for access to the track.
Multiple unit 1903 and 1906 Gate Stock also had access between the cars.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Central London and City & South London locomotives and hauled gate-cars had end doors for access to the track.
Multiple unit 1903 and 1906 Gate Stock also had access between the cars.

Indeed, the saloons had end doors to give access to/from those verandahs, and evacuation would have been by crossing from one car to another via those verandahs. As I understand it only the gateman would be on the verandah whilst the train was in motion, and he would prevent any passenger from trying to cross

 

[OVS Flatbottom]

I remember being seated near the car end on a Circle (or possibly District) train thirty-odd years ago and seeing a passenger open the end door with the train in motion. From memory, he didn't seem to speak English and was probably a tourist or other visitor from mainland Europe. I recall a lot of noise and a fair amount of relative motion between the adjoining vehicles (perhaps it was the Circle curve from Tower Hill towards Aldgate). Needless to say, he closed it again pretty sharpish...

 

[leighsw2]

I've seen one of the people that passes through Tube trains begging for money use these doors with the train in motion.

Yes, this is how they're most commonly used. I've seen this dozens of times over the years.

 

[Lucan]

They were definitely not supposed to be used except in emergency, and I have only seen them used on three occasions

In service maybe, but I was involved in train and track testing at one time and we were up and down the train constantly, including changing ends when in non-platform sidings.

At the risk of giving too much information, as we were on board all day, and neither LU trains nor stations are well equipped with toilets, we also acquired the knack of standing astride the gap between cars and aiming at a running rail, preferably the one furthest from the juice rail, and on a straight, and not when you were about to pass through a station - but we knew the road.

 

[contrex]

I believe there is at least one place on the Underground where curvature means anyone trying to get between coaches it at serious risk of being crushed even if they don't fall.

I used, as a boy, to watch the car ends of Bakerloo 1938 stock as they passed through curves from Elephant & Castle northwards, and realising why they had that chamfered shape. And imagine what would happen if one were between them.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

I remember using these doors to move between carriages as a school boy back in the 60s.

 

[cornishjohn]

+ 1992, 1995, 1996 and 2009 Stock still have swing communicating doors.


Prior to the 1990s refurbishment programme when additional signage placed onto the communicating door window glass, a simple discrete sign read:
“Emergency door to next car”

The same signage can be found in the books "Tube Trains Under London", (1968)(Shown in 1959-62 stock), and "Steam to Silver" (1970)(Shown in R stock), although the dates of the photographs themselves are not obvious.

 

[topydre]

Just found the link to an incident in 2012, when someone sadly died trying to smoke a cigarette out of the door. This was on a 1962 stock train to Amersham. Definitely not safe and sounds an awful way to go.

Man fell under train trying to smoke a cigarette

A MAN who had been 'drowning his sorrows' on the anniversary of his wife's death died after falling from a railway carriage and being…

www.bucksfreepress.co.uk

A MAN who had been 'drowning his sorrows' on the anniversary of his wife's death died after falling from a railway carriage and being dragged along the line, an inquest heard.


Mervyn Allan opened the emergency exit of a London Underground carriage to smoke a cigarette when he slipped and fell under the wheels.
The retired taxi driver was then dragged by the train for up to a mile between Chorleywood and Chalfont and Latimer stations.

The accident happened shortly after 1am on Saturday June 25 on the last Metropolitan Line service back to Chesham of the day - but his family admitted they did not know why he got on the train.

He was attempting to make his way back to his home address in Buckingham Road, Aylesbury, and may have been trying to get to Amersham in order to change for a train to his home town.

His sister Christine Yearley said: "Why he got on that train I don't know. He must have got on the wrong train."

The inquest heard Mr Allan's blood-alcohol level was around three times above the legal drink-drive limit. Traces of cannabis were also found.

Mrs Yearley said he had been drinking to excess and taking cannabis because it was the six years to the day since his wife, Marion, died.

She told the inquest: "He was destroyed. Marion was his world. When she passed away, he went to pieces. He was drowning his sorrows [the night he died]."

Fellow passenger Matthew Edmonds, who had been at work in central London, told the High Wycombe inquest that 51-year-old Mr Allan had smoked a cigarette in the carriage with another man who had got on the train at Harrow and alighted at Moor Park.

Then, shortly after the train left Chorleywood, Mr Allan walked to the end of the carriage and opened the door to have another cigarette, but lost his footing on the wet step.

Mr Edmonds said: "It wasn't deliberate, he fell sideways under the train. I couldn't believe what had happened."

A passenger in the next carriage to the one Mr Allan was travelling in pulled the emergency cord and the train stopped at the next station, Chalfont and Latimer, in accordance with London Underground regulations.

His body had been dragged so far along the line, it was visible from the platform at Chalfont and Latimer.

He suffered massive head injuries and several broken bones to the right hand side of his body.

Jurors were told Metropolitan Line trains travel at higher speeds than at any other point on the Underground network because of the distances they have to cover. Driver Paul Goldstone estimated he was travelling at 45mph when the emergency cord was pulled.

The five female and four male jurors returned a verdict of death by misadventure.

 

[sh24]

Yes, this is how they're most commonly used. I've seen this dozens of times over the years.

Quite. It's not the norm but the heavy thud of the door isn't that unusual either. I've used the doors a couple of times, back in the day to get away from some unsavoury people and once when evacuated from C Stock back on to the platform at Gloucester Road after a major failure.

 

[Harpo]

Earlier stock was evidently able to run with side doors open from photos I’ve seen (either F or T stock?) running in service that way on surface lines.

 

[Dstock7080]

Earlier stock was evidently able to run with side doors open from photos I’ve seen (either F or T stock?) running in service that way on surface lines.

Would be interested to see photos of these.
H (Handworked door) combined C, D, E Stock, as in the name, still operating into the 1950s on the District Line.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Earlier stock was evidently able to run with side doors open from photos I’ve seen (either F or T stock?) running in service that way on surface lines.

Wouldn't be T stock, as they had slam doors. On the distruc, everyhthing up to L stock was built with hand-operated doors, many being converted to air operation when converted to Q stock

 

[etr221]

Would be interested to see photos of these.
H (Handworked door) combined C, D, E Stock, as in the name, still operating into the 1950s on the District Line.

Pictures have been published - see, e.g., in Brian Hardy's Underground Train File Surface Stock book.
H stock largely went in the very early 50s, a couple of trains remained for the Earl's Court-Olympia shuttle up to 1958.
The other late survivor was the ex Met saloon stock on the Circle line, lasted to 1950.
All these were replaced - not always directly, there was a lot of stock shuffling throughout this era - by the R stock.

T stock, ex Met, (as mentioned) as side opening slam doors.
F stock was converted to have air worked doors in the late 1930s.

 

[Harpo]

Wouldn't be T stock, as they had slam doors. On the distruc, everyhthing up to L stock was built with hand-operated doors, many being converted to air operation when converted to Q stock

I’m trying to hunt down the photo in my books. I’ll report back if I find it.