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End of this week I am led to believe, although they are being kept to cover any 701 shortages. The problem you have is as more traincrew gradually lose compentency in them, it will become harder to cover their turns if drafted in, so very soon a line will have to be drawn to take them out completely.
701 vailability has improved a great deal this week, and with /5s now starting to go through the pre-service inspections and the training units being released, their complete withdrawal is imminent.
End of this week I am led to believe, although they are being kept to cover any 701 shortages. The problem you have is as more traincrew gradually lose compentency in them, it will become harder to cover their turns if drafted in, so very soon a line will have to be drawn to take them out completely.
701 vailability has improved a great deal this week, and with /5s now starting to go through the pre-service inspections and the training units being released, their complete withdrawal is imminent.
Could the 450s be used as an alternative? Even if it means short forming a 12 coach service (or 2) to 8 to keep the service running. Something is better than nothing.
Could the 450s be used as an alternative? Even if it means short forming a 12 coach service (or 2) to 8 to keep the service running. Something is better than nothing.
Two pairs of 458/4 covering 701 diagrams today (Wednesday 29.07.26)
458404 + 458412
05:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 06:49
07:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 07:56
08:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 09:23
09:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 10:26
10:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 11:49
12:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 12:56
13:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 14:20
14:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 15:26
15:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 16:49
17:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 17:58
18:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 19:19
19:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 20:26
20:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 21:49
22:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 22:56
23:05 Windsor & Eton Riverside to Staines due 23:19
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:29/07/2026 05:47
458421 + 458423
06:09 Staines to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 06:26
06:56 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 07:54
08:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 08:56
09:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 10:19
10:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 11:26
11:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 12:49
13:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 13:56
14:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 15:19
15:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 16:26
16:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 17:49
18:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 18:58
19:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 20:20
20:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 21:26
21:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 22:49
23:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 23:56
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:29/07/2026 05:39
plus the morning peak leg of the one booked turn for 458s
458426 + 458427
2S05 0522 London Waterloo to Weybridge
1S14 0702 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2V15 0837 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Thursday morning update even though this post will probably disappear in to the void of automerge. Two pairs of 458/4 covering 701 diagrams today (Thursday 30.07.26)
458404 + 458412
05:26 Staines to Reading due 06:14
06:39 Reading to London Waterloo due 08:07
08:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 09:43
10:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 11:35
11:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 13:08
13:33 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 14:58
15:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 16:42
17:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 18:37
18:48 London Waterloo to Reading due 20:14
20:39 Reading to London Waterloo due 22:05
22:22 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 23:38
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:30/07/2026 06:01
458421 + 458423
05:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 06:49 was started from Staines.
07:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 07:56
08:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 09:23
09:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 10:26
10:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 11:49
12:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 12:56
13:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 14:20
14:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 15:26
15:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 16:49
17:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 17:58
18:23 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 19:19
19:33 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 20:26
20:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo due 21:49
22:03 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside due 22:56
23:05 Windsor & Eton Riverside to Staines due 23:19
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:30/07/2026 06:09
plus the morning peak leg of the one booked turn for 458s
458427 + 458402
2S05 0522 London Waterloo to Weybridge
1S14 0702 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2V15 0837 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Friday morning update. No short forms shown on journeycheck but one pair of 458/4s covering what I believe is a 701 diagrams today (Friday 31.07.26)
458421 + 458423
2R90 0531 Hounslow to London Waterloo
2S09 0622 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S18 0802 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2S23 0952 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S32 1133 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2C37 1318 London Waterloo to Reading
2C48 1509 Reading to London Waterloo
2C51 1648 London Waterloo to Reading
2C62 1839 Reading to London Waterloo
2C65 2018 London Waterloo to Reading
2C76 2209 Reading to London Waterloo
2S79 2352 London Waterloo to Hounslow
plus for the final time, the morning peak leg of the one booked turn for 458s
458426 + 458427
2S05 0522 London Waterloo to Weybridge
1S14 0702 Weybridge to London Waterloo
2V15 0837 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
The depot can accommodate 6 x 10 car (701), but these are all used for daily traffic purposes. No space to store 10 car units. 5 car units, yes, but in single figures only.
The depot can accommodate 6 x 10 car (701), but these are all used for daily traffic purposes. No space to store 10 car units. 5 car units, yes, but in single figures only.
I guess 5car units end up being inefficient use of sidings that are probably long enough for 8car units but cannot accommodate 10car formations.
But are there many sidings on SWR like that ?.
There's a diagram for VZ drivers for two arrivals of 458-4s for today. One at 1257 and one at 1557. Relieving WM drivers and berthjng them in road 11,12 or 13. So could it be one unit and two?
There's a diagram for VZ drivers for two arrivals of 458-4s for today. One at 1257 and one at 1557. Relieving WM drivers and berthjng them in road 11,12 or 13
I guess 5car units end up being inefficient use of sidings that are probably long enough for 8car units but cannot accommodate 10car formations.
But are there many sidings on SWR like that
Correct, but what else can they do? That's a consequence of the SW network stabling being designed (historically) for multiples of 4, 8 and 12 car.
There are a good few, but most worrying (as I see it) is Wimbledon depot Top Yard, that part which is visible to District line passengers between Wimbledon and Wimbledon Park stations. As I have said time and time before, IF the pre covid timetable or something very similar is re introduced, that part of Wimbledon depot is lacking about eight sidings to accommodate 10 car 701 to provide daily service trains. The sidings in question were good for 8 car (455) or 5 car 701, and that is where the depot Fleet and Planning teems will need to come up with some ingenious solutions both for morning starts and evening finishes.
and the evening peak leg of this diagram is allocated
458402 + 458415
2R45 1615 London Waterloo to London Waterloo
2S55 1752 London Waterloo to Weybridge
2S64 1933 Weybridge to London Waterloo
plus a second vice 701 turn this evening
458404 + 458427
15:07 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 16:30
16:45 London Waterloo to London Waterloo due 18:11
18:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 19:44
20:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 21:37
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:31/07/2026 14:09
They're all short roads, so making good use of otherwise unused sidings (in theory).
Correct, but what else can they do? That's a consequence of the SW network stabling being designed (historically) for multiples of 4, 8 and 12 car.
There are a good few, but most worrying (as I see it) is Wimbledon depot Top Yard, that part which is visible to District line passengers between Wimbledon and Wimbledon Park stations. As I have said time and time before, IF the pre covid timetable or something very similar is re introduced, that part of Wimbledon depot is lacking about eight sidings to accommodate 10 car 701 to provide daily service trains. The sidings in question were good for 8 car (455) or 5 car 701, and that is where the depot Fleet and Planning teems will need to come up with some ingenious solutions both for morning starts and evening finishes.
I have decided that talking about siding space on SWR is getting too off topic for this thread and any other particular class of EMU. Probably covers all of them !.
How likely is it to see further 458 action from this point? Will they gradually wind down like the 455s after their last booked working, or will it be quite sporadic?
How likely is it to see further 458 action from this point? Will they gradually wind down like the 455s after their last booked working, or will it be quite sporadic?
How likely is it to see further 458 action from this point? Will they gradually wind down like the 455s after their last booked working, or will it be quite sporadic?
I would expect similar to 455s with one, two or even three pairs out sporadically.
Assuming the 458/5s458/4s are not off lease yet ?.
But once three or four pairs of 701/5s are in service then I think, bar unexpected problems, we can guarantee no more 458/4s will be needed.
One caveat is if SWR want the 450s to strengthen non-suburban services but that does not seem to be a priority over removing a "micro fleet".
* = "micro fleet" in the sense the 458/4s are the smallest fleet on SWR and so operation of all fleets becomes easier by simplifying the spares inventory, equipment, space and staff knowledge (both maintenance and crew). Ignoring the 484s but then they have their own depot on an isolated network.
But once three or four pairs of 701/5s are in service then I think, bar unexpected problems, we can guarantee no more 458/4s will be needed.
One caveat is if SWR want the 450s to strengthen non-suburban services but that does not seem to be a priority over removing a "micro fleet".
The rest of the 701/0s is enough. Needs 54 701 diagrams for no 458/4s which should be achievable from 59 or 60 trains. As others have mentioned it will be difficult to run them sporadically for months on end.
Strengthening wise there's relatively few services left to strengthen especially in the morning peak. It's more a few additional targeted trains which don't happen till December so as long as a few 701/5s are in service by then the displaced 450s can run those.
Apologies if the wrong thread for it, but how feasible is it that Southern could get hold of these? Constantly being told they’re short of trains. Could these be the answer?
Apologies if the wrong thread for it, but how feasible is it that Southern could get hold of these? Constantly being told they’re short of trains. Could these be the answer?
I was also confused. Just to record the sequence of events as I saw them.
Some time after 5Q95 should have been en-route, I checked 5Q95 on RTT and LRR, Both showed nothing and not activated. I then took a look on OTT maps and 5Q95 was passing Teddington more or less RT, hence my post. About 30 minutes later, I looked again and 5Q95 had been activated and had arrived at Strawberry Hill with 458424 allocated. A couple of hours later, I checked 5Q97 presuming that it would be 458416, but it was not activated and I could not see it on OTT maps, so I assume 5Q97 was cancelled although it may have run at some other time? I then took a look back at 5Q95 in case the allocation had been retrospectively changed to 458424 + 458416 only to find that 5Q95 had been cancelled after it had run.
I was also confused. Just to record the sequence of events as I saw them.
Some time after 5Q95 should have been en-route, I checked 5Q95 on RTT and LRR, Both showed nothing and not activated. I then took a look on OTT maps and 5Q95 was passing Teddington more or less RT, hence my post. About 30 minutes later, I looked again and 5Q95 had been activated and had arrived at Strawberry Hill with 458424 allocated. A couple of hours later, I checked 5Q97 presuming that it would be 458416, but it was not activated and I could not see it on OTT maps, so I assume 5Q97 was cancelled although it may have run at some other time? I then took a look back at 5Q95 in case the allocation had been retrospectively changed to 458424 + 458416 only to find that 5Q95 had been cancelled after it had run.
There are 9 that have not so far been mentioned as being in warm store. 8 of those 9 have seen passenger service since Thursday. But 458424 was also out on Thursday, so that is not a definitive indicator.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Two pairs of 458 vice 701 today (Monday 03.08.26)
458421 + 458423
08:02 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 09:28
09:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 11:08
11:33 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 12:58
13:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 14:43
15:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 16:35
16:48 London Waterloo to Reading due 18:14
18:39 Reading to London Waterloo due 20:07
20:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 21:41
22:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 23:35
23:52 London Waterloo to Hounslow due 00:30
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:03/08/2026 07:04
458404 + 458427
06:39 Reading to London Waterloo due 08:07
08:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 09:43
10:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 11:35
11:52 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 13:08
13:33 Weybridge to London Waterloo due 14:58
15:18 London Waterloo to Reading due 16:42
17:09 Reading to London Waterloo due 18:37
18:48 London Waterloo to Reading due 20:14
20:39 Reading to London Waterloo due 22:05
22:22 London Waterloo to Weybridge due 23:38
Will be formed of 8 coaches instead of 10.
Last Updated:03/08/2026 07:06
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