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Avanti strike at Manchester Piccadilly Saturday Aug 1st.

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Kite159

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The "allegations" must have had some weight if that staff member got sacked and I presume following a failed appeal & visit to an Employment tribunal...

I guess limited Avanti services from Manchester on those days, and cancellations to other services which would have a Manchester based Train Manager work?
 

Toby268

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The "allegations" must have had some weight if that staff member got sacked and I presume following a failed appeal & visit to an Employment tribunal...

I guess limited Avanti services from Manchester on those days, and cancellations to other services which would have a Manchester based Train Manager work?
TMs are not involved in the strike action.
 

Toby268

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So it will just be other RMT members of staff based at Manchester Piccadilly, so dispatchers, customer services & gateline staff?
Yes, it has been ongoing for several weeks and the dispute itself, prior to action being taken, has been going on for the best part of a year now
 

Carlisle

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Don’t know anything about this strike but if many feel there’s been a genuinely unfair dismissal then I fully support them, certainly seems more purposeful than the upcoming EMR strikes which appear to the layperson as little more than political opportunism at a currently problematic TOC.
 
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speedy1

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Not really much to go on.

Did I understand correctly that the person sacked was the subject of multiple anonymous complaints?

And what is the implication - that it was management submitting them? Or that colleagues were encouraged to do it, in a targeted manner against one individual? Or were the failings genuine but they were a result of eg bad training for example?

Have there been strikes prior to the sacking about the 'toxic workplace culture' and 'multiple management failings'?
 

Carlisle

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Not really much to go on.

Did I understand correctly that the person sacked was the subject of multiple anonymous complaints?
Thanks for the information, if correct I know someone who’s recently left a long railway career under similar circumstances so clearly not an isolated problem.
 
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Tetchytyke

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The "allegations" must have had some weight if that staff member got sacked and I presume following a failed appeal & visit to an Employment tribunal...
You have to be quite spectacularly dumb to lose an Employment Tribunal as an employer. The Employment Tribunal is not an appeal court, they will not overturn an employer’s decision if that employer followed their dismissal process correctly. The Tribunal takes a very wide view of what a reasonable employer would decide. Unless you have a protected characteristic or the employer is daft enough to have put their shenanigans in writing, it is almost impossible to win as an employee.

The trade unions, especially the RMT, have long since lost any faith in the Employment Tribunal system. I share their opinion.

The fact that all their colleagues are prepared to lose wages in order to protest their dismissal is more telling. If their colleagues knew they were bang to rights they wouldn’t be on strike.
 

FY4

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No smoke without fire

Knowing someone directly affected by the actions of this person there’s no consideration of how their actions and behaviours have affected them and others whom they have behaved in an unacceptable way towards
(and that is being polite)
 

TUC

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You have to be quite spectacularly dumb to lose an Employment Tribunal as an employer. The Employment Tribunal is not an appeal court, they will not overturn an employer’s decision if that employer followed their dismissal process correctly. The Tribunal takes a very wide view of what a reasonable employer would decide. Unless you have a protected characteristic or the employer is daft enough to have put their shenanigans in writing, it is almost impossible to win as an employee.

The trade unions, especially the RMT, have long since lost any faith in the Employment Tribunal system. I share their opinion.

The fact that all their colleagues are prepared to lose wages in order to protest their dismissal is more telling. If their colleagues knew they were bang to rights they wouldn’t be on strike.
The route if one is dissatisfied with an Employment Tribunal decision is the Employment Appeal Tribunal. It's very hard to see why those legal processes should not be utilised and their decisions respected.
 

yorkie

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You have to be quite spectacularly dumb to lose an Employment Tribunal as an employer. The Employment Tribunal is not an appeal court, they will not overturn an employer’s decision if that employer followed their dismissal process correctly. The Tribunal takes a very wide view of what a reasonable employer would decide. Unless you have a protected characteristic or the employer is daft enough to have put their shenanigans in writing, it is almost impossible to win as an employee.

The trade unions, especially the RMT, have long since lost any faith in the Employment Tribunal system. I share their opinion.

The fact that all their colleagues are prepared to lose wages in order to protest their dismissal is more telling. If their colleagues knew they were bang to rights they wouldn’t be on strike.
Of course, you would have that opinion; it's a given, but I'd take any such view with a pinch of salt. I am not sure that the concerns of colleagues can be dismissed so easily if you don't know anything about the matter.

Your bogus claim reminds me of the 2013 incident where a well-known Swansea City hooligan, who worked for GWR, misbehaved on a train back from the London area to Swansea after match, and was sacked. However, a strike then followed to attempt to reinstate him. A GWR train manager (who, before had to retire from that position due to ill health a few years after this event) who was a regular on this forum told me that no-one wanted to vote against strike action on principle, but that most colleagues did not support strike action and accepted that the sacking was legitimate, but still had to go on strike anyway, due to solidarity reasons. There was a thread or two about this at the time, but I can't find it now. I am not suggesting there are any parallels in this case, but merely debunking the claim you make in your post.
 

FY4

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Much more to this than meets the eye at first glance and there is only one side of the story being heard here especially
when those affected by this person are dreading work, stressing about going, looking for other jobs, getting upset and much much more

Solidarity reasons in this one. In my view blindly yes
 

styles

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You have to be quite spectacularly dumb to lose an Employment Tribunal as an employer. The Employment Tribunal is not an appeal court, they will not overturn an employer’s decision if that employer followed their dismissal process correctly. The Tribunal takes a very wide view of what a reasonable employer would decide. Unless you have a protected characteristic or the employer is daft enough to have put their shenanigans in writing, it is almost impossible to win as an employee.
44% of claims which make it to a full hearing are successful, and 29% are settled by ACAS without needing the court hearing, so I wouldn't say it's almost impossible to win as an employee. It may not be the majority, but plenty do come away with either an out-of-court settlement or a successful appearance in court.
 

Russel

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Much more to this than meets the eye at first glance and there is only one side of the story being heard here especially
when those affected by this person are dreading work, stressing about going, looking for other jobs, getting upset and much much more

Solidarity reasons in this one. In my view blindly yes

Is it all solidarity or is there an element of peer pressure too?
 

TUC

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In my opinion 50/50 as the full facts are not known about the individual’s actions and impact on others
If it's a secret ballot how can peer pressure play any part?
 

styles

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Peer pressure stats long before the ballot box stage...
Not to mention that according to Railnews, RMT have 70 Avanti members at Manchester Picadilly:


The RMT has called its 70 members at Manchester Piccadilly who work for Avanti West Coast out on strike again, in a dispute over the allegedly unfair dismissal of one of their colleagues.

If you think the turnout may be a little lower and the result to be on the high side, you may be concerned about being "known" as one who voted against. In this case, from 70 members of staff, there was an 81% turnout and 92.8% of those voter in favour, which means there are just 4 members at the station all working with their colleagues day-in-day-out who voted against. That's very much into the territory of, "I bet I can guess how John Smith voted.", for people who have spoken about it or strikes or the union before.
 

Russel

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People work with each other day in day out

WhatsApp groups

Indeed, my workplace was balloted for strike action a couple of years ago, as soon as a couple of the more dominant characters came out in support of it, plenty of others who were sitting on the fence soon fell in line and decided strike actin was a good idea...

The suggestion that a secret ballot means peer pressure can't play a part is laughable.
 
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There were NUR pockets outside Liverpool lime Street on Saturday morning. I was wondering what they were there for.
 

Horizon22

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The suggestion that a secret ballot means peer pressure can't play a part is laughable.

Well arguably its just "campaigning" like we do for regular party political elections!
 

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