Wales plan to take over 10% of UK rail network

[Meole]

Welsh government seeks pathway to full devolution of the rail network

As part of its plan for the first 100 days in office following the May elections, the new Welsh government has begun negotiations with the UK government seeking what it calls ‘fairer’ funding for rail, as well as stronger decision-making powers and a pathway to full devolution of control of the...

www.railbusinessuk.com

"As part of its plan for the first 100 days in office following the May elections, the new Welsh government has begun negotiations with the UK government seeking what it calls ‘fairer’ funding for rail, as well as stronger decision-making powers and a pathway to full devolution of control of the network.


At present the Welsh government has less control over the rail network in Wales than the Scottish government has over the railway in Scotland, although it does own and fund the Core Valley Lines around Cardiff. The new administration pointed out that Wales accounted for around 10% of the British rail network by route length, but said it had only received 1.5% of total UK rail investment over the past 15 years."

Welsh government seeks equality with Scotland .

 

[swt_passenger]

If they really think rail infrastructure costs are directly proportional to ‘route length’ they’re either naive or stupid.

 

[bramling]

Welsh government seeks pathway to full devolution of the rail network

As part of its plan for the first 100 days in office following the May elections, the new Welsh government has begun negotiations with the UK government seeking what it calls ‘fairer’ funding for rail, as well as stronger decision-making powers and a pathway to full devolution of control of the...

www.railbusinessuk.com

As part of its plan for the first 100 days in office following the May elections, the new Welsh government has begun negotiations with the UK government seeking what it calls ‘fairer’ funding for rail, as well as stronger decision-making powers and a pathway to full devolution of control of the network.


At present the Welsh government has less control over the rail network in Wales than the Scottish government has over the railway in Scotland, although it does own and fund the Core Valley Lines around Cardiff. The new administration pointed out that Wales accounted for around 10% of the British rail network by route length, but said it had only received 1.5% of total UK rail investment over the past 15 years.

Welsh government seeks equality with Scotland

Sounds like sour grapes to me. How on earth can anyone seriously justify spending should be proportional to mileage? The Central Wales line is longer than London to Peterborough, yet they seem to feel it should receive more funding.

It’s this sort of utter rubbish that makes the devolved administrations look pathetic and dysfunctional.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Sounds like sour grapes to me. How on earth can anyone seriously justify spending should be proportional to mileage? The Central Wales line is longer than London to Peterborough, yet they seem to feel it should receive more funding.

It’s this sort of utter rubbish that makes the devolved administrations look pathetic and dysfunctional.

Don’t knock them so soon, they could be planning a groundbreaking new Thameslink-style operation between Clarbeston & Milford Haven, and this is their warm-up act.

Alternatively, they could be talking nonsense.

 

[Zomboid]

If they really think rail infrastructure costs are directly proportional to ‘route length’ they’re either naive or stupid.

Cherry picked statistics can tell you very little other than about the agenda of the person who cherry picked them.

You could just as easily say that (according to a quick Google, numbers might not be accurate) there were 31.5 million passenger journeys in Wales last FY, plus 10.5 million cross border journeys, of a total in GB of 1.83 billion. So around 2% of all rail passenger journeys involved Wales.

Which is not to suggest that the rail network in Wales is not deserving of investment. Cutting the wires off short of Swansea is definitely something to be irate about, for example. And the classification of HS2 as "England and Wales" is contentious in Wales, and that's not entirely unjustifiable.

 

[gazthomas]

If they really think rail infrastructure costs are directly proportional to ‘route length’ they’re either naive or stupid.

Don't tempt me

 

[SynthD]

If they really think rail infrastructure costs are directly proportional to ‘route length’ they’re either naive or stupid.

Could you quote any relevant person saying that, before we have a storm of criticism? It’s not in the article.

 

[Cardiff123]

For clarity, Wales is not about to "take over 10% of the UK rail network".
The Welsh Government simply wants parity with Scotland and Northern Ireland when it comes to funding and control over the Wales & Borders rail network.

The fact that Scotland & Northern Ireland get significant extra Barnett consequential funding to spend on their rail infrastructure whenever there's a railway enhancement project in England, but Wales gets nothing, has cut through in Wales.
Every time Welsh Government & TfW want a rail enhancement project in Wales, Welsh Govt has to take the begging bowl to the DfT, to inevitably get told "no", or fund the project out of its devolved budget that is set aside for health, education, local government etc in Wales. Imagine the uproar in England if the English public were told that they could only have a rail upgrade project by taking millions out of the English NHS or education budgets to fund it.

TfW's fully costed wish list of future projects, for the rail network in Wales and the Borders in England, suggests that given the funding and control of Network Rail, Welsh Government and TfW would do a much better job of upgrading the Wales & Borders rail network, rather than leaving it up to DfT and the UK Treasury.

Today, Tomorrow, Together: A vision for rail across Wales and Borders

https://tfw.wales/sites/default/files/2026-02/TTT-Final_ENG.pdf

 

[HSTEd]

Imagine the uproar in England if the English public were told that they could only have a rail upgrade project by taking millions out of the English NHS or education budgets to fund it.

But that is the situation in England, the railway competes with everyone else for the same limited pool of capital expenditure. The treasury is ultimately on the hook and thus sets the limits.

TfW's fully costed wish list of future projects, for the rail network in Wales and the Borders in England, suggests that given the funding and control of Network Rail, Welsh Government and TfW would do a much better job of upgrading the Wales & Borders rail network, rather than leaving it up to DfT and the UK Treasury.

Forgive me if I am sceptical that costs are 'fully costed' when all they can say about a proposed North Wales Line electrification is "over £150m".

Given how little £150m gets you in electrification these days (50 track km or so?) it doesn't really build confidence that any real costing had been done at all.
Furthermore many of these schemes don't seem to be advanced at all by further rail infrastructure being transferred to the control of Cardiff.

As an example I'm of the view that the Liverpool-Wrexham scheme can best be achieved by transferring the Bidston line entirely to Merseyrail to operate under contract from the Welsh and UK governments.

The cynic of me can't help but think this is more about burnishing credentials and trying to get more money for the Welsh government to spend on whatever it wishes.

 

[The Pelican]

If Serpell's Option A had been implemented, the National network would have totalled 10,370x0.16= 1659.2 miles, of which Cardiff to Severn Tunnel Junction, 19 miles, would have been the entire network in Wales, meaning Wales would have had 1.14 percent of the national network. That 19 miles would also be smaller than today's combimed Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland Railway!

(numbers from the Wikipedia article on the Serpell report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpell_Report )

 

[Dr Day]

Purely for my information, is there an already-accepted formula used in Scotland and the Cardiff Valleys (and elsewhere where infrastructure devolution is mooted) for determining the renewals, maintenance and operating budget that would be transferred from Network Rail to TfW/WG? I would imagine the actual figure is quite variable, depending on things like how bad storms have been, what major renewals have taken place and whether any major signalling upgrade involving closure of manual boxes etc has taken place.

 

[swt_passenger]

Could you quote any relevant person saying that, before we have a storm of criticism? It’s not in the article.

But it’s clearly implied in the first post.

 

[zwk500]

Purely for my information, is there an already-accepted formula used in Scotland and the Cardiff Valleys (and elsewhere where infrastructure devolution is mooted) for determining the renewals, maintenance and operating budget that would be transferred from Network Rail to TfW/WG? I would imagine the actual figure is quite variable, depending on things like how bad storms have been, what major renewals have taken place and whether any major signalling upgrade involving closure of manual boxes etc has taken place.

There's probably not a single formula to cover the entire country, but NR will have the costs on a per-route basis. So in theory they should be able to tell the Welsh Govt a reasonably accurate figure of what their network has cost to maintain in the last 20 years (or more). And TfW also run the TOC so know how much that side costs to operate on NR metals.
Enhancement projects will be separate to maintenance but should also be fully documented for government finances and accounting.

 

[krus_aragon]

Don’t knock them so soon, they could be planning a groundbreaking new Thameslink-style operation between Clarbeston & Milford Haven, and this is their warm-up act.

Any such endeavour could in turn be a warm-up for a "Manchester & Milford" Thameslink-style operation! :P

 

[Harpo]

Any such endeavour could in turn be a warm-up for a "Manchester & Milford" Thameslink-style operation! :P

Reopening the Llangurig branch?

 

[yorksrob]

I see no reason why funding for the Welsh railway network shouldn't be switched from the DfT to the devolved Government in Cardiff. This would presumably involve the existing funding being transferred over. The Welsh Gmt would then be able to prioritise projects and supplement funding as it sees fit.

The only proviso I would have is that the UK Minister should still ultimately be able to block a route closure.

 

[Virginfan123]

I see no reason why funding for the Welsh railway network shouldn't be switched from the DfT to the devolved Government in Cardiff. This would presumably involve the existing funding being transferred over. The Welsh Gmt would then be able to prioritise projects and supplement funding as it sees fit.

The only proviso I would have is that the UK Minister should still ultimately be able to block a route closure.

How do you then deal with the Welsh Marches Line? That would be decently high on the Welsh Government list to improve, but a large amount runs through England, on a line that is very low on England's list of lines to improve. You would essentially be left in a standoff where Wales doesnt control the only route between the north and south.

I think the only way to remedy this is to transfer the line fully to TfW, but they would then be responsible for providing upgrades and subsidy to services to English towns such as Hereford, Ludlow and Shrewsbury.

 

[Harpo]

How do you then deal with the Welsh Marches Line? That would be decently high on the Welsh Government list to improve, but a large amount runs through England, on a line that is very low on England's list of lines to improve. You would essentially be left in a standoff where Wales doesnt control the only route between the north and south.

I think the only way to remedy this is to transfer the line fully to TfW, but they would then be responsible for providing upgrades and subsidy to services to English towns such as Hereford, Ludlow and Shrewsbury.

I’d be very comfortable with Wales controlling the Marches to Shrewsbury provided there was a service level contract for English stations, and maybe a commitment to better northward connections at Crewe.

My comfort comes from the importance to TfW of the Manchester service and the bold ambition (albeit with faltering delivery) of high quality IC services with the mk4s.

I’ve often said I’d like to see TfW given the Cardiff to Birmingham service too, given how XC treat it so disposably.

 

[tbtc]

With climate related problems affecting rural routes, I think I'd be very careful if I was arguing for transferring the maintenance responsibilities/costs to my budget so that I would have to find the money every time the fragile Conwy Valley line needed a few more million pounds throwing at it

Same with next time the Barmouth Viaduct needs thirty million pounds spending on it etc

Nationalism is fun but be careful what you wish for, it'll be a lot harder when the cost of e.g. funding electrification to Swansea comes at the opportunity cost of other Welsh budgets

 

[The exile]

With climate related problems affecting rural routes, I think I'd be very careful if I was arguing for transferring the maintenance responsibilities/costs to my budget so that I would have to find the money every time the fragile Conwy Valley line needed a few more million pounds throwing at it

Same with next time the Barmouth Viaduct needs thirty million pounds spending on it etc

Nationalism is fun but be careful what you wish for, it'll be a lot harder when the cost of e.g. funding electrification to Swansea comes at the opportunity cost of other Welsh budgets

Or indeed maintaining the Severn Tunnel - the “ English “ rail network can manage very nicely thank you without it! (Tongue now removed from cheek)

 

[Virginfan123]

I’ve often said I’d like to see TfW given the Cardiff to Birmingham service too, given how XC treat it so disposably.

The only issue with this is that there is not enough platform space at New Street to terminate two extra services.

Of course this will no longer be a problem when the Midlands Rail Hub is built, allowing both services to terminate at Moor Street, but until that happens, this is very unlikely to come to fruition

 

[yorksrob]

How do you then deal with the Welsh Marches Line? That would be decently high on the Welsh Government list to improve, but a large amount runs through England, on a line that is very low on England's list of lines to improve. You would essentially be left in a standoff where Wales doesnt control the only route between the north and south.

I think the only way to remedy this is to transfer the line fully to TfW, but they would then be responsible for providing upgrades and subsidy to services to English towns such as Hereford, Ludlow and Shrewsbury.

There might need to be an element of swapping lines for ease.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2026 ==

With climate related problems affecting rural routes, I think I'd be very careful if I was arguing for transferring the maintenance responsibilities/costs to my budget so that I would have to find the money every time the fragile Conwy Valley line needed a few more million pounds throwing at it

Same with next time the Barmouth Viaduct needs thirty million pounds spending on it etc

Nationalism is fun but be careful what you wish for, it'll be a lot harder when the cost of e.g. funding electrification to Swansea comes at the opportunity cost of other Welsh budgets

This is a good point and something the devolved government would need a grip on. It's also why I would still have a final check against closure at the UK level.

 

[Envoy]

I’ve often said I’d like to see TfW given the Cardiff to Birmingham service too, given how XC treat it so disposably.

LUMO have applied to run a Cardiff > Gloucester > Birmingham > York service. If TFW were given permission to run a Cardiff to Birmingham service this could skim off potential passengers from the LUMO services and make them less viable. I think we would all prefer see a LUMO service that goes further linking more places!

"A new open access service between Cardiff, Birmingham, Derby, Sheffield and York is proposed from December 2028.
The application proposes six return services on weekdays and five on Saturdays, with four northbound trains on Sundays and three southbound."

FirstGroup announces Cardiff – York open access plan and tries again to serve Rochdale

UK: FirstGroup has made initial submissions of three separate applications to the Office of Rail & Road for new and extended open access passenger train services which would be operated under its Lumo brand. UK: FirstGroup has made initial submissions of three separate applications to the Office...

www.railbusinessuk.com

 

[Harpo]

Lá

I think we would all prefer see a LUMO service that goes further linking more places!

Don’t include me in the ‘we’. Personally I prefer a regular interval turn up and go service.

 

[The exile]

Lá


Don’t include me in the ‘we’. Personally I prefer a regular interval turn up and go service.

Seconded!

 

[Mgameing123]

Lá


Don’t include me in the ‘we’. Personally I prefer a regular interval turn up and go service.

I prefer trains that don't make my wallet suffer.

 

[Solaris]

Fyi

https://business.senedd.wales/documents/s174207/Letter%20from%20the%20Chair%20of%20the%20Economy%20Energy%20and%20Connectivity%20Committee%20to%20the%20Deputy%20Minister%20for%20T.pdf

 

[Meole]

Cherry picked statistics can tell you very little other than about the agenda of the person who cherry picked them.

You could just as easily say that (according to a quick Google, numbers might not be accurate) there were 31.5 million passenger journeys in Wales last FY, plus 10.5 million cross border journeys, of a total in GB of 1.83 billion. So around 2% of all rail passenger journeys involved Wales.

Which is not to suggest that the rail network in Wales is not deserving of investment. Cutting the wires off short of Swansea is definitely something to be irate about, for example. And the classification of HS2 as "England and Wales" is contentious in Wales, and that's not entirely unjustifiable.

This clearly sets out the consequence of failing to provide investment in Wales, a fair settlement would obviously uplift passenger journeys to comparative levels.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2026 ==

I’d be very comfortable with Wales controlling the Marches to Shrewsbury provided there was a service level contract for English stations, and maybe a commitment to better northward connections at Crewe.

My comfort comes from the importance to TfW of the Manchester service and the bold ambition (albeit with faltering delivery) of high quality IC services with the mk4s.

I’ve often said I’d like to see TfW given the Cardiff to Birmingham service too, given how XC treat it so disposably.

Clearly Wales should control the Marches line as it is key national infrastructure, the English towns en route could retain stoppers providing through trains had priority, the case for Aberystwyth to Birmingham International is equally strong as its vital for international students, Cardiff to London is perhaps arguably given Bristol is a reasonably significant city but surely Cardiff capital status should take precedence.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2026 ==

LUMO have applied to run a Cardiff > Gloucester > Birmingham > York service. If TFW were given permission to run a Cardiff to Birmingham service this could skim off potential passengers from the LUMO services and make them less viable. I think we would all prefer see a LUMO service that goes further linking more places!

FirstGroup announces Cardiff – York open access plan and tries again to serve Rochdale

UK: FirstGroup has made initial submissions of three separate applications to the Office of Rail & Road for new and extended open access passenger train services which would be operated under its Lumo brand. UK: FirstGroup has made initial submissions of three separate applications to the Office...

www.railbusinessuk.com

Lumo should be required to share its farebox with Wales who should have the final say.

 

[gabrielhj07]

but surely Cardiff capital status should take precedence.

Not sure I follow, Cardiff-London precedence over Bristol-London? Sounds daft to me.

 

[Energy]

And the classification of HS2 as "England and Wales" is contentious in Wales, and that's not entirely unjustifiable.

HS2 to Crewe would allow more North Wales-to-London services... but I wouldn't consider that benefit equal to the several billion Wales would likely receive had it been an "England" project.

Not sure I follow, Cardiff-London precedence over Bristol-London? Sounds daft to me.

ORR destination matrix has the total journeys, for 2024-2025, as:

Origin	Destination	2024-2025 Total
London Paddington	Oxford	1,432,082
London Paddington	Bristol Temple Meads	725,856
London Paddington	Cardiff Central	422,394
London Paddington	Bristol Parkway	381,797
London Paddington	Swansea	116,960
London Paddington	Cardiff Queen St (I gave Bristol two stations, so I'll be fair)	3,638