EMR Class 222’s - declining reliability

[Hairy Bear]

More like 6 years, why bother repairing it when you can have a sticker made up. They also assume that the passengers can recognize the switch on the floor, it not that obvious.

 

[43074]

Not sure how long this has been a feature of the 222 fleet but you know things aren't great when the fault is so common and unrepaired that it's with getting some special stickers printed up:

[Photo of a sticker on the vestibule door of an EMR class 222. It says "Button out of order, please use floor stud"]

They started appearing as soon as Hitachi took over the maintenance of the 222s, around 2022/2023 if I remember rightly

 

[jamiestuart314]

Did the Lumos under go major maintenance/ overhaul between EMR and Lumo? Id imagine that the EMR 222 were being managed to use up the maximum amount of hours before major maintenance was due.

I had heard from a conversation with a Lumo driver that when they first recieved the 222s they were in an appalling condition, with smashed windows, ripped up seats, an entire toilet missing and tms screens removed. Shows once again the godawful maintainance from hitachi

 

[Amos390]

I had heard from a conversation with a Lumo driver that when they first recieved the 222s they were in an appalling condition, with smashed windows, ripped up seats, an entire toilet missing and tms screens removed. Shows once again the godawful maintainance from hitachi

Surely they didn’t come from EMR in that state, surely someone had to have got to the units whilst they were in Etches/Litchurch/Widnes and vandalised somewhat, just seems disgraceful to have a unit handed over in such a state as you mentioned.

 

[fishwomp]

Surely they didn’t come from EMR in that state, surely someone had to have got to the units whilst they were in Etches/Litchurch/Widnes and vandalised somewhat, just seems disgraceful to have a unit handed over in such a state as you mentioned.

Contractually units usually have to be handed back in good order - surely it cannot have been so bad. Good money I'm told was spent fixing up the pacers to a level contracted with leasing companies - which then went straight to scrap.

Not sure how long this has been a feature of the 222 fleet but you know things aren't great when the fault is so common and unrepaired that it's with getting some special stickers printed up:

[Photo of a sticker on the vestibule door of an EMR class 222. It says "Button out of order, please use floor stud"]

Is this button on all 22x units - or just the 222? I've never spotted it - but never looked.

 

[LowLevel]

Contractually units usually have to be handed back in good order - surely it cannot have been so bad. Good money I'm told was spent fixing up the pacers to a level contracted with leasing companies - which then went straight to scrap.


Is this button on all 22x units - or just the 222? I've never spotted it - but never looked.

Said button is just on 222s. It wasn't intended for public use, being specified by Midland Mainline as an innovation to allow catering staff to open the doors without using their hands whilst serving.

 

[D365]

Contractually units usually have to be handed back in good order - surely it cannot have been so bad. Good money I'm told was spent fixing up the pacers to a level contracted with leasing companies - which then went straight to scrap.

Cheaper than renegotiating the lease / handback agreements?

 

[43096]

Cheaper than renegotiating the lease / handback agreements?

If a unit is going for scrap the leasing company will often accept a cash payment for condition rather than the unit being repaired. The cash value would likely be less than the cost of the dilapidation repairs required - both sides benefit: the operator is paying out less than would be the case if repairs were undertaken and the owner gets a cash (and profit) benefit.

 

[Railperf]

EMR MD Will Rogers reported to have left his post at EMR today.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

EMR MD Will Rogers reported to have left his post at EMR today.

Correct he hasbeen. this from Transport UK

https://www.transport-uk.com/latest/statement-from-transport-uk-y9wpa-4t569-74lz2

Transport UK Group is confirming that East Midlands Railway Managing Director, Will Rogers, will be leaving his post on 27th July 2026. Will joined EMR in January 2020, just before the global COVID pandemic, and successfully led the business through multiple lockdowns, ensuring colleagues were kept safe whilst supporting key workers to travel safely to their workplaces.

being replaced with MerseyRail MD who had a past role with EMR so not completely unaware of the business

We are pleased to confirm that Neil Grabham will take on the role of Interim Managing Director of EMR. For the last three years, Neil has been the Managing Director of Merseyrail, consistently one of the country’s top rail operators for both train performance and customer satisfaction. Neil previously held the role of Customer Services Director within EMR; he understands the opportunities and challenges ahead and has always been a passionate advocate for both our colleagues and customers.

 

[Russel]

Correct he hasbeen. this from Transport UK

https://www.transport-uk.com/latest/statement-from-transport-uk-y9wpa-4t569-74lz2


being replaced with MerseyRail MD who had a past role with EMR so not completely unaware of the business

Maybe I'm reading too much into that quote from Transport UK, but when the best achievement they can highlight is implementing Covid procedures 5 years ago says a lot...

 

[spotify95]

1D90 1605 St Pancras International to Nottingham (222021?) - This unit was down at least 1 engine as the rear coach was silent passing through Wellingborough.

 

[richardderby]

Maybe I'm reading too much into that quote from Transport UK, but when the best achievement they can highlight is implementing Covid procedures 5 years ago says a lot...

was he pushed due to the state EMR are in at the moment, staff I spoke to in Derby seem totally demoralised, especially with the class 810s, even the 180s seem in a better league..

 

[Russel]

was he pushed due to the state EMR are in at the moment, staff I spoke to in Derby seem totally demoralised, especially with the class 810s, even the 180s seem in a better league..

Let's not forget who the railway is run for, as much as it's a bad satiation all round, my sympathy with the staff is limited, they are paid to do a job weather trains run or not, the passengers on the other hand are paying significant sums of money to use a service that may or may not run on trains that have been absolutely run into the ground with the vague promise of a new fleet that have been riddled with faults from day one...

 

[dk1]

Let's not forget who the railway is run for, as much as it's a bad satiation all round, my sympathy with the staff is limited, they are paid to do a job weather trains run or not, the passengers on the other hand are paying significant sums of money to use a service that may or may not run on trains that have been absolutely run into the ground with the vague promise of a new fleet that have been riddled with faults from day one...

The staff don’t expect your or anyone else’s sympathy. If they are firefighting day in day out with substandard equipment and still not getting support from those above them they are quite rightly going to be thoroughly demoralised.

 

[londonmidland]

Perhaps I may have just struck lucky, however every 222 I’ve seen and heard today, all the engines have been working. That was this morning.

Is there a new policy where the 222s have to have all engines working at the start of the day, when leaving the depot?

 

[spotify95]

Perhaps I may have just struck lucky, however every 222 I’ve seen and heard today, all the engines have been working. That was this morning.

Is there a new policy where the 222s have to have all engines working at the start of the day, when leaving the depot?

Well, as mentioned upthread, the one that went through Wellingborough P1 at 17:00 certainly wasn't, rear coach was silent as it passed through...

 

[Railperf]

Perhaps I may have just struck lucky, however every 222 I’ve seen and heard today, all the engines have been working. That was this morning.

Is there a new policy where the 222s have to have all engines working at the start of the day, when leaving the depot?

Hopefully that would be an aspiration. However an idling engine does not mean it is providing traction power as I experienced a few times. Those engines seem to initially respond to the call for power with a slight rise in revs but revert back to idling.

Is the plan for Long Marston to clear the decks at Etches Park of faulty 810's to give staff more depot space to work on the core fleet of 222's - while Hitachi tinker with the 810's elsewhere?
If so, that would make sense, as it is proven the 222's are a very reliable train when looked after.
It's probably a pipe dream to imagine the 222's regaining their former reliability levels, but if they can get close then customers stand half a chance of a reliable service as it is a proven product with staff that have years of experience keeping them going. Surely that should be the priority now?

 

[222001]

It's probably a pipe dream to imagine the 222's regaining their former reliability levels, but if they can get close then customers stand half a chance of a reliable service as it is a proven product with staff that have years of experience keeping them going. Surely that should be the priority now?

It can be done, Lumo seem to be having great successes with their 222 fleet, often used at 100% availablity.

 

[liamf656]

It can be done, Lumo seem to be having great successes with their 222 fleet, often used at 100% availablity.

Although two issues I have noticed people mention online with the Lumo units, is the reservation system and air conditioning. Both things that have been issues on the 222s for years and the latter certainly making for an uncomfortable journey at such a distance.

So they aren't completely fault free still, but they have the advantage of utilising Central Rivers, something that benefited the whole fleet until a few years ago

 

[Railperf]

What role did Central Rivers play in providing additional maintenance to what was being done at Etches Park? And when did that end?

 

[liamf656]

What role did Central Rivers play in providing additional maintenance to what was being done at Etches Park? And when did that end?

I'm not sure exactly, but I remeber units coming back completely fault free, all door buttons working, toilets, lights etc. I assume they also did work beneath the solebar too. I believe it ended when Hitachi took over the maintenance (around 2022ish??)

 

[Railperf]

The 07:12 from Nottingham to St Pancras cancelled as a result of apparent 222 non availability.

 

[Some guy]

Although two issues I have noticed people mention online with the Lumo units, is the reservation system and air conditioning. Both things that have been issues on the 222s for years and the latter certainly making for an uncomfortable journey at such a distance.

So they aren't completely fault free still, but they have the advantage of utilising Central Rivers, something that benefited the whole fleet until a few years ago

The good thing is now they have alstom to maintain the sets. EMR left them trains to rot

 

[Teapot42]

The 07:12 from Nottingham to St Pancras cancelled as a result of apparent 222 non availability.

222009 appears to have been dug out to start the 11:50 ex Nottingham from Leicester on this diagram.

 

[43096]

The good thing is now they have alstom to maintain the sets. EMR left them trains to rot

Alstom will only maintain them to the standard Lumo are prepared to pay for.

 

[222001]

Quite a few 222s (and an 810) have failed today, resulting in a pretty catastrophic service this evening: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...26-07-29/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Quite a few 222s (and an 810) have failed today, resulting in a pretty catastrophic service this evening: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...26-07-29/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Maybe the hot weather got to them in the end as the service was reasonable reliable until late afternoon

 

[londonmidland]

Maybe the hot weather got to them in the end as the service was reasonable reliable until late afternoon

.

 

[Railperf]

Maybe the hot weather got to them in the end as the service was reasonable reliable until late afternoon

Was it solely unit issues or were there any infrastructure issues disrupting the MML today?