Okehampton Interchange train times: could they be tweaked to become the same in each hour?

[Snow1964]

Moderator note: Split from

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/new-station-for-okehampton.264118/page-5#post-7879043

Shame they couldn't timetable trains same minutes each hour

To Exeter (Mon-Fri)
07:27, 08:27, 09:28, 10:28, 11:29, 12:28, 13:29, 14:28, 15:27, 16:27, 17:27, 18:32, 19:33, 20:32, 22:21

From Exeter
07:07, 08:12, 09:13, 10:14, 11:14, 12:14, 13:14, 14:15, 15:13, 16:12, 17:12, 18:14, 19:19, 20:18, 21:54

Was it really necessary to put all this hourly flex in, might be needed at Exeter (why does Exeter not have standard times each hour for local trains), but should timetable have had 0-3 minutes padding north of Crowley Bridge so all the branch stations were standard times every hour.

 

[A S Leib]

Was it really necessary to put all this hourly flex in, might be needed at Exeter (why does Exeter not have standard times each hour for local trains), but should timetable have had 0-3 minutes padding north of Crowley Bridge so all the branch stations were standard times every hour.

Looking at RTT, turnaround times at Okehampton (presumably easier there than Exeter if anywhere) are only around seven minutes, so probably too short a time to be considered worth it. I'd agree that having the same time past each hour should be the aim.

 

[TastyMaltesers]

Shame they couldn't timetable trains same minutes each hour

To Exeter (Mon-Fri)
07:27, 08:27, 09:28, 10:28, 11:29, 12:28, 13:29, 14:28, 15:27, 16:27, 17:27, 18:32, 19:33, 20:32, 22:21

From Exeter
07:07, 08:12, 09:13, 10:14, 11:14, 12:14, 13:14, 14:15, 15:13, 16:12, 17:12, 18:14, 19:19, 20:18, 21:54

Was it really necessary to put all this hourly flex in, might be needed at Exeter (why does Exeter not have standard times each hour for local trains), but should timetable have had 0-3 minutes padding north of Crowley Bridge so all the branch stations were standard times every hour.

It's really not that bad. Aside from the first train from Exeter and the last train each way, it's all XX:30 +/- 3 min to Exeter and XX:15 +/- 3 or 4 min to Okehampton. It's not exactly the same time each hour, but it's in the same ballpark.

 

[The exile]

Shame they couldn't timetable trains same minutes each hour

To Exeter (Mon-Fri)
07:27, 08:27, 09:28, 10:28, 11:29, 12:28, 13:29, 14:28, 15:27, 16:27, 17:27, 18:32, 19:33, 20:32, 22:21

From Exeter
07:07, 08:12, 09:13, 10:14, 11:14, 12:14, 13:14, 14:15, 15:13, 16:12, 17:12, 18:14, 19:19, 20:18, 21:54

Was it really necessary to put all this hourly flex in, might be needed at Exeter (why does Exeter not have standard times each hour for local trains), but should timetable have had 0-3 minutes padding north of Crowley Bridge so all the branch stations were standard times every hour.

Indeed - my initial reaction is: “for most people that’ll just become ‘just gone ten past’ and ‘just before half-past’, but when the variations are so minor it does make you wonder why they’re necessary or whether they’re the result of unchecked computer timetabling allocating and/or rounding half-minutes somewhat randomly.

 

[Snow1964]

It's really not that bad. Aside from the first train from Exeter and the last train each way, it's all XX:30 +/- 3 min to Exeter and XX:15 +/- 3 or 4 min to Okehampton. It's not exactly the same time each hour, but it's in the same ballpark.

But they did name it interchange, and added bus connections (which probably have same time each hour).

Not great having an interchange with variable connections.

I realise in practice not everything will be on time, but adding lots of variability of connection time, alongside possible timekeeping slippage adds risk and stress to those using it. Was it really necessary to do it. It doesn't matter where connection has another one few minutes later , but when it might mean hour (or even 2 hour wait for missed bus), it becomes significant

 

[The exile]

But they did name it interchange, and added bus connections (which probably have same time each hour).

Not great having an interchange with variable connections.

I realise in practice not everything will be on time, but adding lots of variability of connection time, alongside possible timekeeping slippage adds risk and stress to those using it. Was it really necessary to do it. It doesn't matter where connection has another one few minutes later , but when it might mean hour (or even 2 hour wait for missed bus), it becomes significant

Actual running will probably prove to be a far bigger variable than the timetable variations. If you’re changing trains /interchanging with a bus it matters little whether you’ve got 9 minutes or 10 or 11 as long as you’ve got a comfortable margin.

 

[brad465]

The line needs upgrading to provide shorter journey times, which in turn gives more padding to allow times to be the same every hour. If, as is aspired by GWR, the linespeed of the Dartmoor line between Crediton and the old Coleford Jct is raised to 70mph, matching the parallel Tarka line, plus the physical need to stop at Crediton signal box for a token exchange were removed, you could potentially save 2-3 minutes in each direction, which is 4-6 minutes extra turnback time at Okehampton. This should easily provide the flexibility needed for clockface timings at Okehampton Interchange.

 

[The Planner]

I'd just PB them all apart from the outliers to xx.12 and xx.27

 

[Zomboid]

The line needs upgrading to provide shorter journey times, which in turn gives more padding to allow times to be the same every hour. If, as is aspired by GWR, the linespeed of the Dartmoor line between Crediton and the old Coleford Jct is raised to 70mph, matching the parallel Tarka line, plus the physical need to stop at Crediton signal box for a token exchange were removed, you could potentially save 2-3 minutes in each direction, which is 4-6 minutes extra turnback time at Okehampton. This should easily provide the flexibility needed for clockface timings at Okehampton Interchange.

Moving the junction to somewhere near the divergence would create a bit of flexibility in the times through Crediton, might enable a clockface schedule.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The line needs upgrading to provide shorter journey times, which in turn gives more padding to allow times to be the same every hour. If, as is aspired by GWR, the linespeed of the Dartmoor line between Crediton and the old Coleford Jct is raised to 70mph, matching the parallel Tarka line, plus the physical need to stop at Crediton signal box for a token exchange were removed, you could potentially save 2-3 minutes in each direction, which is 4-6 minutes extra turnback time at Okehampton. This should easily provide the flexibility needed for clockface timings at Okehampton Interchange.

For some reason, Crediton to Coleford Jcn. (Okehampton side) was not re-laid as part of the reopening and the track is in poor condition - it will have to be tackled sooner rather than later. This section always remained in BR / Railtrack / NR ownership.

 

[Mgameing123]

Actual running will probably prove to be a far bigger variable than the timetable variations. If you’re changing trains /interchanging with a bus it matters little whether you’ve got 9 minutes or 10 or 11 as long as you’ve got a comfortable margin.

I think I does matter if your bus is 9 minutes late (very common) because then you can only make your train if it leaves at 11 past.

 

[stevieinselby]

I've never understood how routes that have a standard service pattern every hour have different times through the day, but it's depressingly common, it's almost like First Bus have used their AI system on a lot of timetables. It feels like it would be more helpful to passengers to standardise the published times, even if the working timetable has slight variations (but even then, I don't see why there would be variations).

 

[The exile]

I think I does matter if your bus is 9 minutes late (very common) because then you can only make your train if it leaves at 11 past.

Clearly it matters if your first means of transport is late by the connectional bargain or more, but that’s just an argument for having “comfortable” connection times. One minute differences in those margins are only relevant when virtually all of that margin has been used up. If your connection time is normally 3 minutes but at 1 hour of the day it’s only 2 , that’s going to matter quite often, but the number of times a 14 minute connection is going to work is not going to be that much less than the number of times a 15 minute one will.