Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[Wyrleybart]

But my initial question still stands. If the space between the bogies is the same, what is located outboard of the bogies on an 800 that has had to be relocated on an 810? Just curious.

One metre less of carbody at each end. From what I have read the passenger doors slide the opposite way in 810s compared to other IETs so I imagine the door pocket arrangements are different.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jul 2026 ==

Is this different to the original design 80x that were built there?

I believe the GWR 802s or was it the 800/3s were assembled at the Hitachi nee Ansaldo Brda factory in Pistioa to the Hitachi design - same as the unitsa assembled at Newton Aycliffe. It seems to me that the 810s were designed in Italy using Hitachi components, but are fundamentally different to the Japanese design. AIUI the passenger doors slide the opposite way in the 810s probably based on the vestible being smaller and door pockets being different.

The traction is apparently different with four GUs supplying traction to two "motor cars" - I believe the GUs under cars 1 2 4 5 supplytraction power to the power bogies under cars 2 and 4.

 

[800001]

One metre less of carbody at each end. From what I have read the passenger doors slide the opposite way in 810s compared to other IETs so I imagine the door pocket arrangements are different.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jul 2026 ==


I believe the GWR 802s or was it the 800/3s were assembled at the Hitachi nee Ansaldo Brda factory in Pistioa to the Hitachi design - same as the unitsa assembled at Newton Aycliffe. It seems to me that the 810s were designed in Italy using Hitachi components, but are fundamentally different to the Japanese design. AIUI the passenger doors slide the opposite way in the 810s probably based on the vestible being smaller and door pockets being different.

The traction is apparently different with four GUs supplying traction to two "motor cars" - I believe the GUs under cars 1 2 4 5 supplytraction power to the power bogies under cars 2 and 4.

802s are from Italy, 800/3 were Newton Aycliffe.

 

[InOban]

In all the posts above EMR should be replaced by DfT. This shambles is entirely their responsibility. They need to own it.

 

[1D54]

Hoping XC have some sort of arrangement with EMR for these industrial action days as I'll have to get Skylink bus from Leicester to Derby to catch a train to Newcastle and ticket is valid from Chesterfield.

 

[Clarence Yard]

I also doubt there would be much interest, their franchise expires at the end of 2026 and somehow I doubt they would be throwing loads of money this near to the end when instead they can drop the mess in the laps of the Great British Railways to sort out.

Their franchise ended in 2020. It’s now just a management contract. If any money is to be thrown at it, that’s a DfT decision.

 

[sh24]

Emergency timetables used to happen in the good old days of BR. The introduction of Class 159 on Waterloo-Exeter saw service reductions for quite a while.

 

[InTheEastMids]

In all the posts above EMR should be replaced by DfT. This shambles is entirely their responsibility. They need to own it.

Not usually one to leap to the defence of DfT, but surely it was EMR that ran the procurement. There may have been DfT representation during bid assessment, but the technical due diligence that satisfied EMR that the Hitachi proposal would work was surely carried out by EMR and/or consultancies appointed by EMR. And Hitachi are doing the maintenance and building the trains.

Where I agree is that DfT need to take more accountability for what is happening today. It'll be good practice for them as when operations are all GBR they won't have a private company to hide behind.

it was seat reservations

Seat reservations have been patchy at EMR for years now due to technical problems with the 222 system, and were completely abandoned as the 810s entered service to avoid mismatches between e.g. reservations based on a planned 222 service that ends up being operated by an 810. But this - to me - neatly makes the point about accountability. Hendy's recent reply to Harborough MP Neil O'Brien witters on about compensation if seat reservations are not honoured. However, the SPAD that drafted the email, and possibly Hendy, should have known they had already been withdrawn. I prefer cock-up over conspiracy* but it does suggest that Hendy and his team are not across the detail, which is not great.

*For the same reason, I choose not to believe that DfT will let the current shambles continue until GBR get the keys towards the end of the year and suddenly extra 222 repairs are unexpectedly funded, additional stock is miraculously sourced and the industrial dispute is magically resolved.

 

[LowLevel]

Someone is taking accountability it seems - Managing Director Will Rogers has left his position this morning with immediate effect. Neil Grabham who is the MD at Merseyrail and formerly Customer Services Director at EMR is taking over for now.

 

[SilentGrade]

Someone is taking accountability it seems - Managing Director Will Rogers has left his position this morning with immediate effect. Neil Grabham who is the MD at Merseyrail and formerly Customer Services Director at EMR is taking over for now.

Whilst it’s right someone takes accountability and it’s to be commended, what will a new MD actually achieve?

GBR get the keys towards the end of the year

DFTo won’t necessarily get the keys though will they? Although the minimum term is up for there’s no guarantee DFTO will take it on from Transport UK. Only the core term expires this year allowing DFtO the option to take it on and I’d suggest that they won’t touch it given the potential reputational damage. The contract itself doesn’t end until 2030.

 

[222001]

DFTo won’t necessarily get the keys though will they? Although the minimum term is up for there’s no guarantee DFTO will take it on from Transport UK. Only the core term expires this year allowing DFtO the option to take it on and I’d suggest that they won’t touch it given the potential reputational damage. The contract itself doesn’t end until 2030.

Indeed, the next two will be Chiltern (September), and GWR (December) - as explained here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/great-british-railways

No others have been announced yet, with Avanti / XC / EMR being next year at some point. Of course, the current EMR situation could change things, an early take over could appease people.

 

[Bayum]

Someone is taking accountability it seems - Managing Director Will Rogers has left his position this morning with immediate effect. Neil Grabham who is the MD at Merseyrail and formerly Customer Services Director at EMR is taking over for now.

Unpopular opinion potentially - wrong move. Yes, it’s not an ideal set of circumstances to happen under his tenure but what’s needed is consistency and leadership. A new MD isn’t going to change things; the issue isn’t the management.

 

[43096]

Unpopular opinion potentially - wrong move. Yes, it’s not an ideal set of circumstances to happen under his tenure but what’s needed is consistency and leadership. A new MD isn’t going to change things; the issue isn’t the management.

Just what you need: consistency of poor performance and lack of leadership. How do you know management isn't the issue? EMR has been an omnishambles for quite some time.

There's plenty of examples of changing management on the railway that has had a big impact on performance, including on the Midland: back in 2003 the then MD (Alan Wilson IIRC) was running the worst performing InterCity TOC - he was removed and replaced by David Franks. Performance dramatically improved.

 

[Martin222002]

Think this line from Will Rogers in Transport UKs press lease on his resignation is key.

"But it is the right time for me to step back and spend some more time with my family"

Full press release below.

Transport UK Group is confirming that East Midlands Railway Managing Director, Will Rogers, will be leaving his post on 27th July 2026. Will joined EMR in January 2020, just before the global COVID pandemic, and successfully led the business through multiple lockdowns, ensuring colleagues were kept safe whilst supporting key workers to travel safely to their workplaces.

During his tenure, Will led the transformation of EMR from the retirement of the HSTs, through to the introduction of EMR Connect, refurbishment of all fleets and the introduction of the Aurora trains. Will has made a significant contribution to EMR, its culture and most importantly, to the people around him.

Will’s commitment, passion and care for the team at EMR will leave a lasting impression, and I know many of you have enjoyed working alongside him.

Will has decided it is time to step back and spend some more time with his family. Everyone at Transport UK and our operating companies would like to thank Will for all his efforts over the past few years.

Dominic Booth, Transport UK CEO, said: “Will stepped in to lead EMR shortly after we first secured the contract. He has been instrumental in delivering exceptional service to our customers and has embodied the Transport UK delivery-first mentality. In recent weeks, Will has also given his all in responding to the tragic incident at Bedford South. I would like to thank Will for all his efforts and wish him the best in the future.”

Will Rogers, outgoing EMR Managing Director, said: “It has been a privilege to lead EMR since 2020 and to support our teams through a period of significant change. I am sad to say goodbye to a business and to colleagues who have meant so much to me. I have been incredibly fortunate to work alongside such talented, committed and caring people, and I will always be grateful for the experiences, friendships and memories we’ve shared. But it is the right time for me to step back and spend some more time with my family, and I would like to thank you all for your support, your friendship and for allowing me to be part of this journey. It has been a privilege.”

We are pleased to confirm that Neil Grabham will take on the role of Interim Managing Director of EMR. For the last three years, Neil has been the Managing Director of Merseyrail, consistently one of the country’s top rail operators for both train performance and customer satisfaction. Neil previously held the role of Customer Services Director within EMR; he understands the opportunities and challenges ahead and has always been a passionate advocate for both our colleagues and customers.

Neil is looking forward to reconnecting with colleagues across EMR and will work closely with the Leadership Team throughout this transition period, ensuring continuity and maintaining focus on safety, fleet performance and customer service.

Neil said:

"I am genuinely pleased to be returning to EMR on an interim basis and to have the opportunity to work alongside colleagues once again. EMR has always held a special place for me, and I know first-hand the dedication, professionalism and commitment that exists across the business. I look forward to reconnecting with colleagues and supporting the team as we continue to deliver for our customers and communities."

https://www.transport-uk.com/latest/statement-from-transport-uk-y9wpa-4t569-74lz2

 

[Merle Haggard]

Whilst it’s right someone takes accountability and it’s to be commended, what will a new MD actually achieve?

/snip

Possibly someone's read Voltaire? 'Pour encourager les autres'

(translation. - 'to encourage the others')

 

[John R]

I wonder whether the finger-pointing at Hitachi ruffled a few too many feathers that eventually got back to the DfT, which then leant on Transport UK to get rid of him.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I wonder if anything similar is happening at Hitachi. But of course we're unlikely to find out.

 

[sh24]

Unpopular opinion potentially - wrong move. Yes, it’s not an ideal set of circumstances to happen under his tenure but what’s needed is consistency and leadership. A new MD isn’t going to change things; the issue isn’t the management.

That's my experience, unless there is a major personal issue e.g. a mental health problem that means the individual concerned needs space and time. Leaving the senior team in role but with the right support to deal with a major issue normally works better even it doesn't appease those writing green pen letters to the Telegraph or Mail.

 

[43096]

Think this line from Will Rogers in Transport UKs press lease on his resignation is key.

That's just the usual flannel you get in these announcements. Let's been clear: he's been fired. The fact he has gone with immediate effect is the key indicator - if you're genuinely wanting to spend more time with family there'd be a handover period.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

That's just the usual flannel you get in these announcements. Let's been clear: he's been fired. The fact he has gone with immediate effect is the key indicator - if you're genuinely wanting to spend more time with family there'd be a handover period.

More like Alexander has ripped into Booth and hes been sacrificed to buy them some time but as others have noted it changes nothing on the ground other than its now gives new MD a clean sheet to potentially take more service reductions while there in the honeymoon period.

Anyhow 810022 seems to have been reasonable reliable last couple of days. Not sure if that the latest one into the fleet so has benefitted from some earlier learning and modifications.

 

[InTheEastMids]

That's just the usual flannel you get in these announcements.

The flannel tells me something though. The media release goes well beyond what's necessary for a departing senior leader. To me, that says he's well thought of and quite possibly had a hand in writing it. So it doesn't look like "fired" as in suddenly "escorted off the premises" - in those situations the valedictory part is very short and keeps to simple facts. So I agree the emergency timetable and strike announcement made it untenable for him to continue, but everybody agreed it was better that he was given a parachute and jumped.

Normally, this media flannel then goes on to sing the praises of the new hire, and the sunlit uplands that they will lead the business to. But sunlit uplands don't really get a mention. The new hire is as close as you can get to an EMR insider without being an internal hire, so looks like a continuity candidate. So my reading here is that unsurprisingly, expectations are being set low. He's not expected to find some decisive action that will, as if by magic, dig EMR out of the mess it's in.

 

[themiller]

Their engines used to shut down on hot days- until being replaced by MTU power plants

I thought the engines shutting down was a result of BR using non-original parts to save a few quid. Wasn’t this discovered by GEC when they got the engine overhaul contract?

 

[Elecman]

I wonder whether the finger-pointing at Hitachi ruffled a few too many feathers that eventually got back to the DfT, which then leant on Transport UK to get rid of him.

My thought too

 

[LowLevel]

Well, the 1850 from Notts was cancelled due to a fault. 1912 with 810012 has just failed in the platform 2 mins before departure. Sigh.

 

[Dave61]

The flannel tells me something though. The media release goes well beyond what's necessary for a departing senior leader. To me, that says he's well thought of and quite possibly had a hand in writing it. So it doesn't look like "fired" as in suddenly "escorted off the premises" - in those situations the valedictory part is very short and keeps to simple facts. So I agree the emergency timetable and strike announcement made it untenable for him to continue, but everybody agreed it was better that he was given a parachute and jumped.

Normally, this media flannel then goes on to sing the praises of the new hire, and the sunlit uplands that they will lead the business to. But sunlit uplands don't really get a mention. The new hire is as close as you can get to an EMR insider without being an internal hire, so looks like a continuity candidate. So my reading here is that unsurprisingly, expectations are being set low. He's not expected to find some decisive action that will, as if by magic, dig EMR out of the mess it's in.

The BBC report describes his role as "interim"

East Midlands Railway boss to leave role amid ongoing train problems

Will Rogers says he has decided it is time to step back and spend some more time with his family.

www.bbc.co.uk

Neil Grabham will take on the role of interim managing director of EMR

 

[Railperf]

Do we know how many diagrams are currently allocated to Class 810s and 222's? Looks like only three 810's out today so far.

 

[222001]

Do we know how many diagrams are currently allocated to Class 810s and 222's? Looks like only three 810's out today so far.

Seems to be 4 810s and 14 222s. Looking at RTT+ 810012/13/14/18 are out today.

 

[Teapot42]

Interestingly, yesterday, both the 18:35 to Nottingham and the 19:02 to Sheffield ran as 10 coaches. These are ones advertised as running with less coaches than normal.

Out of interest, how many units are required to fill the current diagrams?

 

[222001]

Interestingly, yesterday, both the 18:35 to Nottingham and the 19:02 to Sheffield ran as 10 coaches. These are ones advertised as running with less coaches than normal.

This was purely because of disruption, that resulted in the 1632/1635 being cancelled. The units for those services were attached for the 1835/1902.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Out of interest, how many units are required to fill the current diagrams?

I think it is 18 with 19 necessary to run more or less the entire service at 5 cars only (maybe excluding the Lincoln and Melton trains).
Today 4 are Cl810 which is a small but noticeable decline from earlier weeks when it was more like 6 (out of 10 Cl810 that seem to have been in regular passenger use)

 

[liamf656]

Out of interest, how many units are required to fill the current diagrams?

20 diagrams to ensure every service runs (that includes the Melton trips), 24 if all the 10 cars in the peaks run

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jul 2026 ==

I think it is 18 with 19 necessary to run more or less the entire service at 5 cars only (maybe excluding the Lincoln and Melton trains).
Today 4 are Cl810 which is a small but noticeable decline from earlier weeks when it was more like 6 (out of 10 Cl810 that seem to have been in regular passenger use)

I wouldn't be surprised if 4 diagrams is now booked in the temporary timetable given the loss of T15 (and T19 being away for works)