End of loco-hauled Roma-Sicily InterCities?

[D6130]

The new "Blues" Intercity Sicily-Rome of Trenitalia with the Hitachi HTR-412 car

I've never understood the decision to install the IC Blues on the Rome-Sicily line, but I noticed they also installed them on the Rome-Taranto and Rome-Reggio Calabria lines. It's crazy. I hope they bring back the UIC-Z carriages with the E.464 and E.401 locomotives.

But please! Comfortable trains for trips of up to two hours, adapted for ten-hour journeys. We're truly at the end of our tether. It hurts to love the railways but be proven wrong at every turn.

Videos currently appearing on YouTube would seem to indicate that the Roma-Palermo/Siracusa daytime InterCity services have switched from class E464 electric locos and stock to the new Hitachi class HTR 412 hybrid units at the beginning of this week....with a four car unit running each portion.

According to the comments attached to the videos, numerous complaints have already been received about the uncomfortable seats, lack of legroom, lack of luggage storage space, lack of toilets (one per unit, IIRC) and shortage of first class accommodation.

Although this change was inevitable eventually, it seems to have been a major retrograde step for ordinary passengers and tourists....as well as haulage enthusiasts. (Sorry....can't post the videos as the files are too big for my phone. )

 

[S101]

Going to be travelling around Sicily by rail quite a bit next week. It looks a very boring place for rail travel these days. EMU. EMU. EMU. EMU.......

 

[Mainline421]

Going to be travelling around Sicily by rail quite a bit next week. It looks a very boring place for rail travel these days. EMU. EMU. EMU. EMU.......

Ferrovia Circumetnea certainly won't be boring, that's for sure!

It's a real shame if Italy is following the Balkans' lead and replacing proper long-distance trains with commuter-style multiple units as an "upgrade", though. It was quite a nice journey on the old stock

 

[S101]

Ferrovia Circumetnea certainly won't be boring, that's for sure!

Even that was a boring air conditioned modern thing last time I used it.

 

[Mainline421]

Even that was a boring air conditioned modern thing last time I used it.

Wow, Sicily has really changed since 2022...

 

[Farigiraf]

Even that was a boring air conditioned modern thing last time I used it.

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but how is that a downgrade?

I can see why 'Blues' units replacing loco haulage on longer routes is a bad idea, because they've been specced so poorly. But surely a train with air con, wifi etc makes for a nicer passenger experience than an old 70s or 80s unit?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but how is that a downgrade?

It probably would be if the original had full drop windows you could stick your head out of, at least from an enthusiast standpoint?

 

[D6130]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but how is that a downgrade?
I can see why 'Blues' units replacing loco haulage on longer routes is a bad idea, because they've been specced so poorly. But surely a train with air con, wifi etc makes for a nicer passenger experience than an old 70s or 80s unit?

The loco-hauled stock that has just been replaced had air-conditioning....but not WiFi.

It probably would be if the original had full drop windows you could stick your head out of, at least from an enthusiast standpoint?

There were no drop-down windows. Those were last seen in the UIC-X stock introduced in 1968 and used on the Rapido/InterCity services until the 1990s.

However, there are plenty of opportunities to enjoy fresh air on the ferry crossing the Strait.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2026 ==

I have just received a report from friends in Italy that the E464 locos with UIC-Z1 stock have returned to the route over the past couple of days. No sure why though.

 

[superalbs]

The loco-hauled stock that has just been replaced had air-conditioning....but not WiFi.

There were no drop-down windows. Those were last seen in the UIC-X stock introduced in 1968 and used on the Rapido/InterCity services until the 1990s.

However, there are plenty of opportunities to enjoy fresh air on the ferry crossing the Strait.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2026 ==

I have just received a report from friends in Italy that the E464 locos with UIC-Z1 stock have returned to the route over the past couple of days. No sure why though.

I guess now is the time to do it, you never know when you risk those cheap nasty units coming back for good...

 

[Mainline421]

There were no drop-down windows. Those were last seen in the UIC-X stock introduced in 1968 and used on the Rapido/InterCity services until the 1990s.

Ferrovia Circumetnea, that quote references, did have them in 2022, though.

 

[D6130]

Ferrovia Circumetnea, that quote references, did have them in 2022, though.

IIRC, the Circumetnea units were delivered in 2016-17.

 

[superalbs]

IIRC, the Circumetnea units were delivered in 2016-17.

Is that the Polish-built units that do not work? I had fresh-air stock only, and that was in 2023.

 

[D6130]

Is that the Polish-built units that do not work? I had fresh-air stock only, and that was in 2023.

They are indeed! The fresh-air stock - some of them built in the late 1960s - is much better in terms of both comfort and reliability.

 

[route101]

There is still the night train using locos surely?

 

[JB_B]

There is still the night train using locos surely?

I'm pretty sure the OP was referring to InterCity but not Intercity Notte ( post #1 says "daytime" )

 

[D6130]

I'm pretty sure the OP was referring to InterCity but not Intercity Notte ( post #1 says "daytime" )

I was indeed.

 

[S101]

Not totally lame, just mediocre.


My photo of a train passing Forza d' Agro.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Not totally lame, just mediocre.
View attachment 208032

Looks like a toy train. Too short and should be E 402 pulling 12 cars!

 

[citycat]

Looks like a toy train. Too short and should be E 402 pulling 12 cars!

Isn’t that just the Palermo or Siracusa portion on its own, and not the whole train.

I have to agree though. I miss the grey FS cars of the eighties with pull down windows and a proper concertina loco like the E645 or E646. And destination boards on the side.

 

[S101]

And these are some other photos of a trip out to Palermo from Forza d' Agro. Graffiti a massive problem, and punctuality a massive problem too.
All EMU traction. Very hard to fin InterCity services from Messina to Palermo, all Regional trains for the most part.

 

[Richard Scott]

Italy used to be such a good country for loco haulage and Sicily was notable as one of the last places could get 656 haulage. None of those carts will tempt me back an no way I'll spend 10 or more hours on plastic from Rome to Sicily.

 

[D6130]

Italy used to be such a good country for loco haulage and Sicily was notable as one of the last places could get 656 haulage. None of those carts will tempt me back an no way I'll spend 10 or more hours on plastic from Rome to Sicily.

You'll still be able to have loco-haulage on the overnights for a while yet.

 

[ABB125]

You'll still be able to have loco-haulage on the overnights for a while yet.

Got to get that "up all night in a seat but you've travelled the length of Italy" experience! My longest single train journey to date

 

[Richard Scott]

Got to get that "up all night in a seat but you've travelled the length of Italy" experience! My longest single train journey to date

Bonus being mostly in the dark so see no scenery! This is the issue, I'd rather travel in the day and see the scenery but not on an uncomfortable cart so my solution will be do neither as don't want to do the overnight either.
Probably won't affect many people but if tourisn in Italy does suffer then might be a rethink? Doubt it as most will just deal with it and a small percentage, like myself, will boycott it.