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Is the extension to the Borders Railway back on track?

Killingworth

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Will any part of the extension run through England or will the junction to the WCML be in Scotland?
Would, not will. Whoever prepared the Scottish government's business case for spending up to £5million on an outline business case did very well to get it accepted. The sum required to rebuild a truly useful new line on the old route would be enormous and any estimates would be hostages to fortune. There must be many other rail projects in Scotland offering better value for money - let alone things like ferries that work and health services.
 
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waverley47

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For reasons above, plus many others - complete waste of £1m cost!!!

I don't know, I'm finding it a reasonably interesting use of funding; five million quid to kill the idea for a decade or several isn't a bad thing.
 

Kingston Dan

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The BBC has reported



It said the business case process would take about 18 months to complete although it said it would be working with everyone involved to see if timescales could be reduced.

Has there been any earlier studies. Are any parts of the extension to Carlisle compromised by post closure developments on the track bed?

Will any part of the extension run through England or will the junction to the WCML be in Scotland?
South of Hawick will never be rebuilt - it didn't make any sense for the NBR in the 19th century and there's no reason to think railway economics is any more favourable now. However a link to the ECML via Kelso and Coldstream to Berwick would be more sensible and connect some of the bigger border towns to the network and fast trains to London.
 

brad465

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This looks like a case of "consultancy, if you're not part of the solution, there's a lot of money to be made in prolonging the problem."
 

Elwyn

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This looks like a case of "consultancy, if you're not part of the solution, there's a lot of money to be made in prolonging the problem."

Quite agree. Why don’t we have any politicians with the strength to simply say now: “We have looked at this and it is not a good use of public money”? Spending 5 million to hear someone else come up with the same judgement seems frankly, cowardly and bad government.
 

Mr. SW

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Two Christmases ago, I was up in the Borders and visited and walked several bits of the Line down as far as the border itself. Any case for extension to Hawick is bad enough but beyond is an utter waste. So that took a week or so.

I'll have my consultancy fee now, thank you.
 

CEN60

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This looks like a case of "consultancy, if you're not part of the solution, there's a lot of money to be made in prolonging the problem."
Completely accurate assessment!! But as someone in the rail industry described "well meaning randoms" think they know better. I doubt that there is a single person that worked on the reopening to Tweedbank that thinks it would be worth thinking about going further. Oh and for the record the powers that be weren't happy with the track option that went across "The Greenyards" rugby pitch in Melrose back in the day when we looked at it - I wonder why!
 

waverley47

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Completely accurate assessment!! But as someone in the rail industry described "well meaning randoms" think they know better. I doubt that there is a single person that worked on the reopening to Tweedbank that thinks it would be worth thinking about going further. Oh and for the record the powers that be weren't happy with the track option that went across "The Greenyards" rugby pitch in Melrose back in the day when we looked at it - I wonder why!

Good grief there really were some awful people in the Borders council back in the day weren't there.

The lack of comprehension in some quarters about why it couldn't go further was mind boggling.
 

CEN60

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17 Dec 2018
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Good grief there really were some awful people in the Borders council back in the day weren't there.

The lack of comprehension in some quarters about why it couldn't go further was mind boggling.
I think I'll leave it there - takes me back to the Alignment work for the Parliamentary Bill (or SPB or whatever it was called)!!!!
 

overthere 2

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There are significant obstacles in the way of this extension, including:
  1. How does the line get from Tweedbank to the Melrose bypass?
  2. How do motorists access the car park at Tweedbank - does the line go over or under the access point, or does a new entrance and exit require to be built?
  3. How does the line continue from the bypass through Melrose - is this single track?
  4. Residents in Melrose would be rightly annoyed were the town not to be served - how can the current unused station be adapted to be accessibile?
  5. How does the line then get from Melrose through Newtown St Boswells and on to Hawick?
  6. Is it proposed to electrify the line from Newcraighall to Hawick?
  7. Three coach trains are often standing room only in both directions - additional Hawick etc traffic would require additional coaches - where will those be found, however they are powered?
  8. It would not be unreasonable to suggest that Saturday services would require to be half-hourly all day - currently, 6 coach sets are often standing room only leaving Waverley on a Saturday evening if rugby has been on.


1 -The track bed itself is clear - just overgrown with trees etc - all you need is three bridges with them being most likely road over the top rail under.


2 - Tried to look on Google maps (birds eye) but if you look at the station site there is some weird overlay that looks like half the old map and half the new map. So going by National Library of Scotland side by side maps you close the current entrance then send traffic on to the road that runs South East from the station and links up with Tweedbank drive just North of the roundabout.


3 - To the south of the length of the Melrose bypass is fields and/or trees so you simply shuffle the road slightly South and there is enough room for a single track.



4 - Using Google street view it looks perfectly accessible to me.



5 - Parts of the trackbed has been ploughed back in to fields but there are no structures in the way, as for St Boswells there are two smallish warehouses on the track bed so either build new ones somewhere else for the business's and make it a straight swap or pay then to go away as for the rest it is just car parks.


6 - Dont know, but electrification is not some new fangled contraption we know nothing about it is something the green brigade are constantly telling us is good so the when the line was rebuilt it should have been electrified all the way instead of trying to bodge it on after.


7 - If this is built then it is not gong to be open tomorrow so it gives plenty of time to build new or get second hand stock from somewhere else.


8 - Agreed it seems crazy that in various parts of the country people are packed in trains like sardines yet at the same time there are sidings packed full of spare stock.





A well run reliable bus service which is integrated with connecting train services is fine as a way of extending the public transport service provided by the railway to a wider area where buses can provide enough capacity.



Its strange isn't it' that at enormous expense the Waverley line, the Northumberland line, Okehampton and Portishead have been/are being reopened if all it takes to get motorists out of their cars is a well run reliable bus service which is integrated with connecting train services :rolleyes: .





The problem with all these developments are that they are all off the route of the Waverley Line. For example: the CP development is almost exactly halfway between Hawick and Selkirk, but there will be be pressure put on the roads in the area by such developments.


It's not like there is a shortage of space in that neck of the woods so what the council should have done is said we will allow you to build but you build next door to the railway and pay for a station, considering the horrendous prices Centre Parks charge it would be pocket money to them.




There is a lot of love on here for the prospect of extending it seems. Good lord people on rail forums are cynical, if you applied some of the logic shown on this thread nothing new would ever happen anywhere


There are a worryingly large number of posters on here who I think if Beeching and/or Marples were here today they would say: "Thats a person after my own heart".




(Remembering that the 'phenomenally successful' line to Tweedbank that 'massively exceeded all expectations' etc was expected to cover about half of it's operating costs, but now it's been running for a few years the demand has risen to a level where, erm, it covers half it's running costs, i.e. maybe the forecasters called it reasonably well)


Everything I have read about the re-opening of the line has said it has been far more popular than was envisaged therefore if the expected number of users meant it covered half the cost then surely more users mean it is getting nearer break even or making a profit?.




Reading the posts on this thread I can't see this going down well:








WSP to provide consultancy support on Borders Railway extension project​

3 July 2026

The move comes 11 years on from the opening of the railway that connects Tweedbank with Edinburgh (Image: Colin N. Perkel, Shutterstock)
WSP has been contracted by Scottish Borders Council to provide specialist consultancy support in the first stage of the business case work required for the proposed extension of the Borders Railway to Hawick and Carlisle.
The first package of work entails a transport appraisal which will help to develop a shortlist for a preferred option for the corridor and associated feasibility work. The second will see a growth prospectus created, which will look at other economic related opportunities in the area that will help to develop the strongest case possible.
The work will contribute to the first stage of the business case process, the Strategic Outline Business Case (SOBC). This is the first of three stages which will help to evaluate the potential benefits of developing better transport provision in Southern Scotland and Northern England.
The SOBC work will take approximately 18 months to complete and is funded by both the UK and Scottish Governments through the Borderlands Inclusive Growth Deal.


It doesn't mention it in the above link but in a written article I saw about this - so no link - it is going to cost £1 million.
 

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