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Does the bus industry have a widespread cultural problem?

py_megapixel

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Whining about issues out of their control but an unwillingness to address those issues within their control just typifies the attitude of the industry.
This is an interesting point that I thought merited further discussion, so here is a new thread to avoid dragging the quoted one off topic.

I do feel that in many places, bus companies seem complacent providing poor service, basically serving only those with no alternative whose business they feel entitled to, and blaming anyone but themselves when things go wrong.

One operator I have the misfortune to use loves putting up passive-aggressive messages on their website ("High Street has yet again been closed by the council for unannounced roadworks, so we have been forced to divert..."). Of course short notice road closures are annoying but this sort of communication gives a really poor impression. Especially when they often cancel services of their own volition, don't put any message on the website at all, and can't even be bothered marking them as cancelled in their own app.
 
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Bletchleyite

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I certainly find an extremely high level of conservatism, i.e. an unwillingness to even look at potential time savers like tap on tap off in some companies, most notably Stagecoach. (At least those using Ticketer machines just have to switch it on if just using the ticket machine's tap facility).

As for small independents, I would agree that a lot of them like to moan rather than dealing with matters within their control like bothering to clean buses occasionally or ensuring that their staff are appropriately presented. There are some very good ones, but a lot really are not.

The operators have a much stronger argument against the misdeeds of Councils etc if they resolve the issues they do control and then go to the Councils saying "we did this, now fix your bit".
 

RT4038

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This is an interesting point that I thought merited further discussion, so here is a new thread to avoid dragging the quoted one off topic.

basically serving only those with no alternative

Well they are, aren't they?

I think the problem is that the bus companies are, in the main, being managed, administered, operated and maintained by people who simply do not use the product and have no wish to. This includes drivers, who drive the product but actually use private transport for their personal transport. However this is not confined to them, as all those they interact with, whether in policy making or 'on the day' issues - Local Authorities, Utility Companies, Emergency Services, Businesses, private car drivers, also, in the main, do not use the product and have no wish to. Anybody who does not fall in the 'in the main' category is largely drowned out by the indifference and ignorance [in the nicest possible way] of the majority. It is therefore unsurprising that the quality of service, the attitudes displayed, are as they are.

The operators have a much stronger argument against the misdeeds of Councils etc if they resolve the issues they do control and then go to the Councils saying "we did this, now fix your bit".

Bit of a chicken and egg I suspect.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Well they are, aren't they?

I think the problem is that the bus companies are, in the main, being managed, administered, operated and maintained by people who simply do not use the product and have no wish to. This includes drivers, who drive the product but actually use private transport for their personal transport. However this is not confined to them, as all those they interact with, whether in policy making or 'on the day' issues - Local Authorities, Utility Companies, Emergency Services, Businesses, private car drivers, also, in the main, do not use the product and have no wish to. Anybody who does not fall in the 'in the main' category is largely drowned out by the indifference and ignorance [in the nicest possible way] of the majority. It is therefore unsurprising that the quality of service, the attitudes displayed, are as they are.
I agree to a point.

I know a number of senior bus company managers. They are passionate about the industry that they work in - many grew up as enthusiasts. They also know all the constraints and the harsh realities of day.

Take one of the hoary old chestnuts - air conditioning on buses. Yes, they know there is a benefit to passengers. Is that translated into a benefit of monetary value? Not often so at the risk of the old idiom... you can establish the price of something but not the value. So you're potentially worse off financially and no manager gets rewarded for that.

Then there's the relationships with local authorities. Some are pro-public transport but many are ambivalent at best. It's not a statutory duty and they have no money. There's also no votes in upsetting car drivers so they are very unlikely to do anything too controversial.
 

YorkRailFan

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I certainly find an extremely high level of conservatism, i.e. an unwillingness to even look at potential time savers like tap on tap off in some companies, most notably Stagecoach. (At least those using Ticketer machines just have to switch it on if just using the ticket machine's tap facility).
Stagecoach are switching to Ticketer, the rollout should start in September.
 

Bletchleyite

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Stagecoach are switching to Ticketer, the rollout should start in September.

Thank goodness for that. Not only because it means they can implement TOTO, but also because their present machines have a bad habit of refusing my Monzo card on Apple Pay and the drivers often blame me for this despite their buses being the only place I ever have a problem with it. Plus the displays on many of them are broken so you can't even see properly why it failed.
 

YorkRailFan

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Thank goodness for that. Not only because it means they can implement TOTO, but also because their present machines have a bad habit of refusing my Monzo card on Apple Pay and the drivers often blame me for this despite their buses being the only place I ever have a problem with it. Plus the displays on many of them are broken so you can't even see properly why it failed.
They also have issues with Barclays cards apparently, not just Monzo.
 

RT4038

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I agree to a point.

I know a number of senior bus company managers. They are passionate about the industry that they work in - many grew up as enthusiasts. They also know all the constraints and the harsh realities of day.

Quite, but unfortunately the constraints and harsh realities of the day (which includes their interaction with their staff, their shareholders, the Government, Local Authorities and other members of the non riding public) grind them down. No criticism of them intended.

At least there is an (unprecedented) movement of buses up the political agenda, for good or for bad.....
 

Bletchleyite

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Quite, but unfortunately the constraints and harsh realities of the day (which includes their interaction with their staff, their shareholders, the Government, Local Authorities and other members of the non riding public) grind them down. No criticism of them intended.

Of course if you hate your job the best plan is to change it, not carry on while being really unhappy and that rubbing off on your customers, management and reports.
 

Gareth1990

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I agree to a point.

I know a number of senior bus company managers. They are passionate about the industry that they work in - many grew up as enthusiasts. They also know all the constraints and the harsh realities of day.

Take one of the hoary old chestnuts - air conditioning on buses. Yes, they know there is a benefit to passengers. Is that translated into a benefit of monetary value? Not often so at the risk of the old idiom... you can establish the price of something but not the value. So you're potentially worse off financially and no manager gets rewarded for that.

Then there's the relationships with local authorities. Some are pro-public transport but many are ambivalent at best. It's not a statutory duty and they have no money. There's also no votes in upsetting car drivers so they are very unlikely to do anything too controversial.
It really should be a statutory duty, it would be a way of providing evening and Sunday services without allocating extra funding
 

RT4038

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Of course if you hate your job the best plan is to change it, not carry on while being really unhappy and that rubbing off on your customers, management and reports.
I don't think they do hate their job - you are misreading the situation. Get ground down to go along with (at least some of) the flow.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Providing an adequate bus service really should be a statutory duty, it would be a way of providing evening and Sunday services without allocating extra funding
Not sure how you come up with that conclusion? A statutory duty on whom? If the bus company, or a Local Authority funding a bus service, cannot afford to run an evening or Sunday service then they just wouldn't run the daytime service either. Where has that got you? Unless of course the staff have a statutory duty to work in the evenings without pay, and the fuel company to provide fuel free for such an endeavour?
 

Gareth1990

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I don't think they do hate their job - you are misreading the situation. Get ground down to go along with (at least some of) the flow.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


Not sure how you come up with that conclusion? A statutory duty on whom? If the bus company, or a Local Authority funding a bus service, cannot afford to run an evening or Sunday service then they just wouldn't run the daytime service either. Where has that got you? Unless of course the staff have a statutory duty to work in the evenings without pay, and the fuel company to provide fuel free for such an endeavour?
I’m saying the Local authorities should have a statutory duty to fund services
 

RT4038

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I’m saying the Local authorities should have a statutory duty to fund services
But you mentioned that making this a Statutory Duty would be a way of providing evening and Sunday services without extra funding? How would this work then? If the Local Authority had this Statutory Duty (however 'adequate' is defined, presuming this is more service than is currently operated?), what activity are they going to cut from their current portfolio in order to fund this?
 

markymark2000

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This is an interesting point that I thought merited further discussion, so here is a new thread to avoid dragging the quoted one off topic.

I do feel that in many places, bus companies seem complacent providing poor service, basically serving only those with no alternative whose business they feel entitled to, and blaming anyone but themselves when things go wrong.

One operator I have the misfortune to use loves putting up passive-aggressive messages on their website ("High Street has yet again been closed by the council for unannounced roadworks, so we have been forced to divert..."). Of course short notice road closures are annoying but this sort of communication gives a really poor impression. Especially when they often cancel services of their own volition, don't put any message on the website at all, and can't even be bothered marking them as cancelled in their own app.
100% agree with you. And it's a great shame that low quality has become the norm, rather than the exception.

Select bus in Stafford is one such operator. Regularly whinges and whines about poor parking and lack of notice for roadworks and stuff like that, but their buses are rarely cleaned, mechanically quite poor, interior often has at least one seat covered over with sticky tape and/or threadbare. Then you can add to that for the commercial routes, the timing points are deliberately 15 minutes apart so then through the estates, the driver can either plod around, or flaw it and get in their much needed vape break (some trips miss out some estates too, and there is just no timetables at all so then if the bus misses out the area or runs early, they can't get blamed). And if all that isn't enough, the MD is more than happy for buses to turn off route and go home early rather than completing the last runs of the night (including on tenders. Which I'd argue is fraud) (see https://bustimes.org/journeys/912562882 & https://bustimes.org/journeys/911618026. Both of which show the bus tracking up the A5 rather than serving Shrewsbury at all on the last trip. You can 'sense check' this too using the tracking times and the ping times match up to it being physically impossible for them to have terminates in Shrewsbury in the time between pings).


What can we expect though when we have a regulator (OTC) who are so useless they couldn't organise a kids party at soft play. We've DVSA who are meant to investigate things, and instead seem to sit in offices all day twiddling their thumbs (least nothing ever gets investigated so what they spend their time doing, god only knows). The DFT couldn't care less and keep throwing money at the low quality operators and refuse to withhold payments such as the fare cap money, BSOG or other funds which come direct from them, where operators are regularly not complying with various regulations). We've got a large majority of councils who bury their heads in the sand and/or believe that bus operators can do no wrong on tenders, but in any care, always refuse to down operators for the sections not operated properly.
Throw all that together, where is the incentive to be good (or disincentive to not be bad). Quality stands for nothing these days when it comes to tenders or getting money off the government. Why bother being good, when you get no thanks, and no one in authority seems to give a hoot about clamping down on the bad actors. You might as well be as bad as everyone else and save any money that it costs to 'be good'.
 

mangad

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Well they are, aren't they?

I think the problem is that the bus companies are, in the main, being managed, administered, operated and maintained by people who simply do not use the product and have no wish to. This includes drivers, who drive the product but actually use private transport for their personal transport.

This feels a little unfair to drivers. For starters depots are not always in easy to get to locations. And drives will regularly be on shifts where they're driving early or late buses. If you're driving first or last buses of the day you'll have little choice but to rely on your own car. I have seen drivers going to/from the depot in my area, but the driver may not be based out of their closest depot. For example, I was once on a Bee Network bus in Greater Manchester running to Derbyshire boundary. I had a chatty driver and he said he regularly got that route because he lived near the terminus. But the depot the service was run out of was 22 miles away in Eccles on the other side of Greater Manchester. The only practical way to get there would be to drive
 

RT4038

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This feels a little unfair to drivers. For starters depots are not always in easy to get to locations. And drives will regularly be on shifts where they're driving early or late buses. If you're driving first or last buses of the day you'll have little choice but to rely on your own car. I have seen drivers going to/from the depot in my area, but the driver may not be based out of their closest depot. For example, I was once on a Bee Network bus in Greater Manchester running to Derbyshire boundary. I had a chatty driver and he said he regularly got that route because he lived near the terminus. But the depot the service was run out of was 22 miles away in Eccles on the other side of Greater Manchester. The only practical way to get there would be to drive

It is just a statement of fact - I understand why it is. However, it does not help if you are not on the receiving end of the product, for whatever the reason. It was not the case 50+ years ago.
 

markymark2000

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This feels a little unfair to drivers. For starters depots are not always in easy to get to locations. And drives will regularly be on shifts where they're driving early or late buses. If you're driving first or last buses of the day you'll have little choice but to rely on your own car. I have seen drivers going to/from the depot in my area, but the driver may not be based out of their closest depot. For example, I was once on a Bee Network bus in Greater Manchester running to Derbyshire boundary. I had a chatty driver and he said he regularly got that route because he lived near the terminus. But the depot the service was run out of was 22 miles away in Eccles on the other side of Greater Manchester. The only practical way to get there would be to drive
Something that I will note in relation to depot locations. If bus operators wanted to be more accommodating towards enabling drivers to use public transport, they really could. There will always be people who live too far away, the bus route wouldn't be suitable, or some other reason why someone can't use a bus, but what you can do is make it as easy as possible for someone who wants to travel by bus, to do so and break down some of the barriers which currently prohibit this (such as permitting sign on/sign off at the bus stations as long as the duty starts or ends with 'passenger on shuttle' (of course doesn't work if the duty starts with driving the bus out of the depot, or taking a bus back).


Something that will back up RTs point though.
In one of my previous roles working at multiple of the biggest transport operators in the UK, and without going too far off topic, the way that travel expenses were paid, if people drove, they would earn significant more money than if they used public transport, because even with driving and a hotel cost, they would earn more than if the company reimbursed public transport costs. You could profit so much on the mileage that you could pay for a hotel as well and still be better off than someone who was just getting back their basic train/bus fare expense. You tell me why anyone would bother using public transport when doing so would mean they would make less money (because of profiteering off the mileage expense). And this is happening at multiple of the biggest bus operators in the UK. Staff being financially incentivised to use their car over public transport. It's barmy.
 

Flange Squeal

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It is just a statement of fact.
I don’t believe it is a statement of fact to say bus drivers don’t travel by bus. It’s probably fair to say many don’t, but plenty more actually do take advantage of their free travel perks!
 

RT4038

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I don’t believe it is a statement of fact to say bus drivers don’t travel by bus. It’s probably fair to say many don’t, but plenty more actually do take advantage of their free travel perks!
That is why I said 'in the main' - of course some do, but I should think a majority (like the rest of the population) don't.
 

Tetchytyke

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One operator I have the misfortune to use loves putting up passive-aggressive messages on their website ("High Street has yet again been closed by the council for unannounced roadworks, so we have been forced to divert..."). Of course short notice road closures are annoying but this sort of communication gives a really poor impression. Especially when they often cancel services of their own volition, don't put any message on the website at all, and can't even be bothered marking them as cancelled in their own app.
There’s far too much of this in the bus industry.

Stagecoach Newcastle changed the route of the long cross-city bus service that I used for many years to serve a business park. I believe they received a subsidy for the extra mileage but tried to cut costs by not increasing the PVR. The effect of this change was that the route- which took about 70 minutes end-to-end- had precisely two minutes’ recovery time at each end of the route. Weirdly, time keeping went out of the window but complaints to them were always batted back with “not our fault.” Well, actually, it is your fault for preparing an unrealistic timetable.

But Stagecoach Newcastle always were a terrible operator and that stemmed from an operations manager who had a proper beancounter mentality. He’d cut anything he could, especially corners. When he retired, about ten years later than he should have, things started to marginally improve.
 

Djgr

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This is an interesting point that I thought merited further discussion, so here is a new thread to avoid dragging the quoted one off topic.

I do feel that in many places, bus companies seem complacent providing poor service, basically serving only those with no alternative whose business they feel entitled to, and blaming anyone but themselves when things go wrong.

One operator I have the misfortune to use loves putting up passive-aggressive messages on their website ("High Street has yet again been closed by the council for unannounced roadworks, so we have been forced to divert..."). Of course short notice road closures are annoying but this sort of communication gives a really poor impression. Especially when they often cancel services of their own volition, don't put any message on the website at all, and can't even be bothered marking them as cancelled in their own app.
Unfortunately, I think there is a lot of passive-aggression imbedded in bus travel. Definite lack of customer focus.
 

MotCO

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So, who are the good guys? Who regularly listens to their customers and maintains good relations with local councils? Are these 'good guys' the ones who regularly top the Bus Operator of the Year awards, or is there a mismatch? Are there some 'silent heroes'?
 

Magrar

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It is cultural in the sense the only way a bus operator can effect things within their control, is with money. It takes money to employ people, buy vehicles, improve infrastructure, even training costs money.

But spending money is a risk. Even for a municipal operator.

And so when the payoff of such a risk hinges far more on external factors, such as an authority's attitude to the extremely disruptive nature (to a bus network) of both road closures and congestion in general, than your own actions, you probably might get a bit cynical or worse.

And if you end up in a situation where there's no money available for innovation at all, down to the ever increasing costs of simply maintaining what you have, I dare say that does not put a spring in your step as you head off to work.
 

mayneway

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Interesting thread with some interesting comments.
I’m a driver with many years experience and one of the biggest issues is that schedulers and management have a vital tool that could make services work much better but would rather ignore it - and that’s the very drivers driving the services.

It’s so so frustrating that we gripe all the time on things like blink, we make suggestions, complain about running times and the location of timing points and nothing ever gets done about it.

One of my massive pet hates is on frequent high usage services, the 5 minutes at either end of the route to unload, go to the toilet then load again. I’ve argued for years that if you have a full load on a double decker bus, it’s going to take 4-5 minutes to get them all off, then if there’s more than 10 people waiting that’s another 2-3 minutes so your next trip is already late before setting off.

This is why many drivers go from loving the job to hating the job!
 

Simon75

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Select bus in Stafford is one such operator. Regularly whinges and whines about poor parking and lack of notice for roadworks and stuff like that, but their buses are rarely cleaned, mechanically quite poor, interior often has at least one seat covered over with sticky tape and/or threadbare. Then you can add to that for the commercial routes, the timing points are deliberately 15 minutes apart so then through the estates, the driver can either plod around, or flaw it and get in their much needed vape break (some trips miss out some estates too, and there is just no timetables at all so then if the bus misses out the area or runs early, they can't get blamed). And if all that isn't enough, the MD is more than happy for buses to turn off route and go home early rather than completing the last runs of the night (including on tenders. Which I'd argue is fraud) (see https://bustimes.org/journeys/912562882 & https://bustimes.org/journeys/911618026. Both of which show the bus tracking up the A5 rather than serving Shrewsbury at all on the last trip. You can 'sense check' this too using the tracking times and the ping times match up to it being physically impossible for them to have terminates in Shrewsbury in the time between pings).
The problem why (mainly outside) buses are grubby, as the garage, and road leading to it , is dirt track, thus gets dirty more
 

markymark2000

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So, who are the good guys? Who regularly listens to their customers and maintains good relations with local councils? Are these 'good guys' the ones who regularly top the Bus Operator of the Year awards, or is there a mismatch? Are there some 'silent heroes'?
Most of the awards in the bus industry are just the operators picking random depots or people to nominate, rather than based on any actual evidence backing up why they are so good. It's a time for everyone to pat eachother on the back and say what a good job everyone is doing, and a time for suppliers to get their name out there with sponsoring. The awards are rarely awarded to an operator who is actually deserving.

In the past few years, I've seen a number of the most corrupt and inept management win these award, and a number of the most discriminatory bus operators (winning despite constant discrimination against disabled people) winning too, so in my view, and the view of most people who are below management grades, these award shows are just a place for everyone to show off and do not in any way, shape, or form, reflect reality.


I'm also reminded of the excellent award that National Express did for a number of years, to the 'Most improved operator'. If that isn't an 'everyone is a winner' award then I don't know what is.
 

RT4038

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It is cultural in the sense the only way a bus operator can effect things within their control, is with money. It takes money to employ people, buy vehicles, improve infrastructure, even training costs money.

But spending money is a risk. Even for a municipal operator.

And so when the payoff of such a risk hinges far more on external factors, such as an authority's attitude to the extremely disruptive nature (to a bus network) of both road closures and congestion in general, than your own actions, you probably might get a bit cynical or worse.

And if you end up in a situation where there's no money available for innovation at all, down to the ever increasing costs of simply maintaining what you have, I dare say that does not put a spring in your step as you head off to work.


I think that the nub of the problem is that the customer expectation of service is far in excess of the amount they are prepared to pay in fares for the expectation to be met. The resulting gap has been getting larger and larger over the years.

In the (relatively short) 'golden age' of buses (in reality the 1930s) the job of bus crew was relatively well paid and was of good standing in the community. Bus fares were relatively expensive, and bus travel over any distance was a carefully considered activity for most. Workers tended to live close to their employment, and travelling by bus to school was only for a very few. Traffic congestion and lateness was almost unknown and a trip missing from the timetable (most likely from a vehicle breakdown) was almost a mention in the local paper. During the war and for several years afterwards, the bus industry had to try and cope with an excess of demand over supply. Additional vehicles and crew could not be obtained due to the war effort and its aftermath. Relations between passengers and crew were severely strained. After the war, the wages of bus crew had not risen in line with other workers, and now the job was not seen as a good one. By the mid fifties, staff shortages were causing unreliable timetables. At the same time the country was going through much social change - 'off peak' travel was dropping, not really through any fault of the bus company - workers were not going home for lunch, home refrigerators meant that shopping no longer needed to be done daily, television decimated evening travel to cinemas, sporting fixtures etc. and of course increasing car ownership was particularly affecting weekend travel. All of these reduced the amount of passengers and therefore revenue of each bus, but wasn't really affecting peak period travel, which was still a daily scramble to cater for. Much new housing was built in the 50s, further and further away from town/city centres, in less densely laid out suburbs, but double fares could not be charged for double the costs of provision.

The Licensing system, with its system of objections and expectation that the good routes would cover the losses of the bad meaning that mileage could not be reduced in line with lower demand, coupled with Govt. pressure on the Traffic Commissioner to keep fares increases to a minimum and Govt. policy keeping (particularly nationalised) wages low, has meant that the management pressure on costs has been pretty relentless since the mid 50s.

The 70 & 80s saw massive expansion of private motoring and with it congestion, parking problems, speed bumps and the like, all slowing down bus services and making journey times less and less predictable. The Deregulated era has seen a further raft of cost burden on the industry - Health & Safety, Disabled Access, staff training, Engine emission, Open Data, underfunded concessionary fares schemes and ,the latest, employers NI ; all putting pressure on costs. There is no free lunch - increase the costs / reduce the revenue and see fares rising and services diminishing. We reap what we sow.

The fact is that reliability costs money, and with each percentage point the cost rises exponentially. The fares collected only buy a certain level. Customer expectation is far higher than the level of the fares they want to pay. Buses rely on moving large quantities of customers all paying relatively small amounts , with only a few seconds interaction with a member of staff. There is no money to pay for greater quantity of staff interaction time. There is no money to be paying compensation of many multiple times the original planned outlay (if any) when things go wrong. There is no money for meaningfully increased information provision. There is no money for increased levels of spare buses / spare staff / spare mechanics / admin. staff to get everything right, or for better wages and conditions to attract a better quality of staff at all levels. Faced with a barrage of customer complaint/blame about their unrealistic expectation that only money (or an external agency) can put right, and plenty of complaint from non-customers about the effect of your activities on them, coupled with an indifference by external agencies who no doubt have their own pressures to be dealing with anyway, it is hardly surprising that they take every legitimate opportunity to hand off the blame to someone else!

It is no wonder that the attitude, from management to bus crew, of 'you're lucky to get a bus at all' comes through in the customer service. Undoubtedly there are many good employees, from Bus Crew to Managing Directors who try to do the best they can in the circumstances. There will also be some who, in the nicest possible way, are not so good. But they are all caught up in this squeeze of costs vs. revenue.
 

Magrar

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I think that the nub of the problem is that the customer expectation of service is far in excess of the amount they are prepared to pay in fares for the expectation to be met. The resulting gap has been getting larger and larger over the years.

In the (relatively short) 'golden age' of buses (in reality the 1930s) the job of bus crew was relatively well paid and was of good standing in the community. Bus fares were relatively expensive, and bus travel over any distance was a carefully considered activity for most. Workers tended to live close to their employment, and travelling by bus to school was only for a very few. Traffic congestion and lateness was almost unknown and a trip missing from the timetable (most likely from a vehicle breakdown) was almost a mention in the local paper. During the war and for several years afterwards, the bus industry had to try and cope with an excess of demand over supply. Additional vehicles and crew could not be obtained due to the war effort and its aftermath. Relations between passengers and crew were severely strained. After the war, the wages of bus crew had not risen in line with other workers, and now the job was not seen as a good one. By the mid fifties, staff shortages were causing unreliable timetables. At the same time the country was going through much social change - 'off peak' travel was dropping, not really through any fault of the bus company - workers were not going home for lunch, home refrigerators meant that shopping no longer needed to be done daily, television decimated evening travel to cinemas, sporting fixtures etc. and of course increasing car ownership was particularly affecting weekend travel. All of these reduced the amount of passengers and therefore revenue of each bus, but wasn't really affecting peak period travel, which was still a daily scramble to cater for. Much new housing was built in the 50s, further and further away from town/city centres, in less densely laid out suburbs, but double fares could not be charged for double the costs of provision.

The Licensing system, with its system of objections and expectation that the good routes would cover the losses of the bad meaning that mileage could not be reduced in line with lower demand, coupled with Govt. pressure on the Traffic Commissioner to keep fares increases to a minimum and Govt. policy keeping (particularly nationalised) wages low, has meant that the management pressure on costs has been pretty relentless since the mid 50s.

The 70 & 80s saw massive expansion of private motoring and with it congestion, parking problems, speed bumps and the like, all slowing down bus services and making journey times less and less predictable. The Deregulated era has seen a further raft of cost burden on the industry - Health & Safety, Disabled Access, staff training, Engine emission, Open Data, underfunded concessionary fares schemes and ,the latest, employers NI ; all putting pressure on costs. There is no free lunch - increase the costs / reduce the revenue and see fares rising and services diminishing. We reap what we sow.

The fact is that reliability costs money, and with each percentage point the cost rises exponentially. The fares collected only buy a certain level. Customer expectation is far higher than the level of the fares they want to pay. Buses rely on moving large quantities of customers all paying relatively small amounts , with only a few seconds interaction with a member of staff. There is no money to pay for greater quantity of staff interaction time. There is no money to be paying compensation of many multiple times the original planned outlay (if any) when things go wrong. There is no money for meaningfully increased information provision. There is no money for increased levels of spare buses / spare staff / spare mechanics / admin. staff to get everything right, or for better wages and conditions to attract a better quality of staff at all levels. Faced with a barrage of customer complaint/blame about their unrealistic expectation that only money (or an external agency) can put right, and plenty of complaint from non-customers about the effect of your activities on them, coupled with an indifference by external agencies who no doubt have their own pressures to be dealing with anyway, it is hardly surprising that they take every legitimate opportunity to hand off the blame to someone else!

It is no wonder that the attitude, from management to bus crew, of 'you're lucky to get a bus at all' comes through in the customer service. Undoubtedly there are many good employees, from Bus Crew to Managing Directors who try to do the best they can in the circumstances. There will also be some who, in the nicest possible way, are not so good. But they are all caught up in this squeeze of costs vs. revenue.
Not to undercut any of your excellent post, I can't help notice how much better the taxi industry (operators and regulators) has adapted to many of the similar challenges over the years if not decades.

And I'm talking a proper taxi, a hackney carriage, not a private hire. I've habitually walked rather than cough up for a late night taxi, until I recently caved and was genuinely surprised how relatively cheap they now are.
 

RT4038

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Messages
5,455
Not to undercut any of your excellent post, I can't help notice how much better the taxi industry (operators and regulators) has adapted to many of the similar challenges over the years if not decades.

And I'm talking a proper taxi, a hackney carriage, not a private hire. I've habitually walked rather than cough up for a late night taxi, until I recently caved and was genuinely surprised how relatively cheap they now are.

However, they are not anywhere near as regulated as the bus industry, particularly in regards to depots, working conditions, paying taxes, as they will all be 'self employed'. Of course, if the bus industry enjoyed such conditions, possibly it would be different, but I can't see that happening any time soon. In my town, try getting a taxi between 07h30 and 09h00, or 15h00 and 16h30. They are all on well paying Local Government school contracts....
 

Cesarcollie

Member
Joined
5 Jun 2016
Messages
829
Not to undercut any of your excellent post, I can't help notice how much better the taxi industry (operators and regulators) has adapted to many of the similar challenges over the years if not decades.

And I'm talking a proper taxi, a hackney carriage, not a private hire. I've habitually walked rather than cough up for a late night taxi, until I recently caved and was genuinely surprised how relatively cheap they now are.
Whilst your average taxi driver would disagree, the taxi, and especially private hire industry, has a much lower level of regulation than bus/coach. Indeed, in some areas it is borderline in legal terms!
 

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