The Labour Party under Andy Burnham

[Statto]

This is all about the mandate argument. Even Badenoch doesn't believe an election needs to be called.

The Tories are in a worse state than Labour right now, why they're not demanding an election, Badenoch is useless, & reason she is still leader is the ones that could challenge her have defected to Reform.

 

[Harpo]

We don't vote for Prime Ministers in this country.

Agreed, but the last two PMs in situ on day 1, Johnson and Starmer, both muddied the water by claiming when on death row that they, not their party, had been given a mandate.

We will doubtless get the usual suspects in politics and the media exploiting this lack of understanding.

 

[speedy1]

We don't vote for Prime Ministers in this country.

I thank the honourable poster for elucidation and education in this matter. I should like to clarify that the words "they think" were chosen with great consideration, should the honourable poster be in any doubt whether it is myself who is in need of clarification on that matter.

I would also ask whether the honourable poster has perhaps forgotten to reply to the other points that were raised, such as the the lack of reference to the manifesto. An oversight no doubt and I extend an invitation to address to the point.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2026 ==

Agreed, but the last two PMs in situ on day 1, Johnson and Starmer, both muddied the water by claiming when on death row that they, not their party, had been given a mandate.

An excellent point about de facto recent politics. I do not agree with it, but it is what it is

 

[AlterEgo]

This is all about the mandate argument. Even Badenoch doesn't believe an election needs to be called.

She has called for one, if Burnham doesn't fund the Defence Investment Plan. The DIP is a nice little bomb sitting under Burnham at the moment.

We don't vote for Prime Ministers in this country.

We do, in practice. Britain has a pseudo-presidential system in the way its Prime Ministers work in terms of centralising power and setting the political agenda, which has been explored in the thread already.

This sort of pronouncement may be technically correct, but only in the same way "almost no American Citizen votes for the President of the United States" is.

 

[ainsworth74]

She has called for one, if Burnham doesn't fund the Defence Investment Plan. The DIP is a nice little bomb sitting under Burnham at the moment.

I thought it was interesting that Healy ended up in HM Treasury. You'd think, considering his previous resignation that was probably the final nail in the coffin for Starmer, he'd only do that if he was going to be given a free hand to fund defence as required. Then again the new Defence sec is Wes Streeting which hardly inspires confidence...

We do, in practice. Britain has a pseudo-presidential system in the way its Prime Ministers work in terms of centralising power and setting the political agenda, which has been explored in the thread already.

This sort of pronouncement may be technically correct, but only in the same way "almost no American Citizen votes for the President of the United States" is.

Of course I reckon one of the reasons that everything is so broken is that we're operating what is, in effect, a presidential system but with traditional Westminster Cabinet Government machinery. So the PM pulls a lever but turns out it's not really connected to anything because that's not how the system is configured to operate.

If we're to persist with presidential style PM's then we probably need an actual Prime Ministerial department at the centre of Government that will actually drive forward the PMs agenda even when the PM is distracted by [insert crisis of the day].

 

[AlterEgo]

I thought it was interesting that Healy ended up in HM Treasury. You'd think, considering his previous resignation that was probably the final nail in the coffin for Starmer, he'd only do that if he was going to be given a free hand to fund defence as required.

You would think so. Burnham *not* funding the DIP will be suicide, but how he funds it is the difficult part.

Of course I reckon one of the reasons that everything is so broken is that we're operating what is, in effect, a presidential system but with traditional Westminster Cabinet Government machinery. So the PM pulls a lever but turns out it's not really connected to anything because that's not how the system is configured to operate.

Quite!

 

[SargeNpton]

Unfortunately, much of the commenters on the right, would subscribe to the sort of policies authoritarian regimes have practiced, such as demonising anyone who opposes them, reducing them to being viewed as not worthy of any rights, such as fair trails, and human rights, along much of the same way Germany treated dissidents, and minority groups.

Well, to be fair, that's also what generally happens in extreme left-wing regimes.

 

[najaB]

Well, to be fair, that's also what generally happens in extreme left-wing regimes.

Indeed, history has shown that there is very little difference between extremists on either side of the political spectrum: cf Mao or Pol Pot vs Adolph or Bennito.

 

[ainsworth74]

The discussion about Trident and some wider defence questions now has its own thread here.

 

[Bantamzen]

Interestingly Burnham may well have had an effect on polling opinions, even before he formally became PM. At the beginning of June Reform were polling at around 26% in the Poltico Poll of Polls with Labour on 17%. However even before any data has been gathered after Burnham took office, Reform have dropped 3 points to 23%, with Labour up 3 to 20%. Data is linked below:

United Kingdom — Parliament voting intention

That's a significant swing already, so it will be interesting to see what effect he has in the coming weeks.

Meanwhile a new £2 cap for most bus fares has been announced from 01-01-2027:

Bus Fare Cap Announced - BBC New Live Feed

Most single bus fares in England will be capped at £2, PM announces
​

Most bus fares in England will be capped at £2 from 1 January in 2027, the government has announced.

The reduction would see the cap on fares go down by a third from the current £3 cap.

This is breaking news. We will bring you more detail as it comes.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

This should also mean any delivery continues at existing pace, as a change in Minister causes a delay to anything in the department while the new Minister gets up to speed, and an even bigger delay if the new person wants to change things.

Lord Hendy reconfirmed as Rail Minister in todays announcements of changes to juinor ministers

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/ministerial-appointments-july-2026

 

[TheSmiths82]

Somebody I work lives outside the GM are and has to pay £6 a day for the bus, this will save him £40 a month which at nearly £500 a year will make a huge difference to him. Ironically while I drive to work, do I get fairly often if I am going out to town the £2 cap won't benefit me as Andy Burnham has already capped the fares here.

While the policy won't benefit a lot of people, it will directly benefit the lower paid workers more than any other demographic so the move is actually clever.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Somebody I work lives outside the GM are and has to pay £6 a day for the bus, this will save him £40 a month which at nearly £500 a year will make a huge difference to him. Ironically while I drive to work, do I get fairly often if I am going out to town the £2 cap won't benefit me as Andy Burnham has already capped the fares here.

While the policy won't benefit a lot of people, it will directly benefit the lower paid workers more than any other demographic so the move is actually clever.

My bold

The saving suggests that they travel each way on every week day.
Are there no weekly or monthly tickets available to give a discount? There certainly are around here.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Then again the new Defence sec is Wes Streeting which hardly inspires confidence

I actually think that's a positive move because it puts that slimy little weasel somewhere where he can't do any damage.

Funding the bus cap by converting foreign aid from grants to loans is smooth. Funding the VAT cut by scrapping Digital ID is smooth. Whatever you think of him, it's quite nice to see a Prime Minister who actually seems to have some political nous. The last three had all the political nous of a housebrick.

 

[Yew]

Funding the bus cap by converting foreign aid from grants to loans is smooth. Funding the VAT cut by scrapping Digital ID is smooth. Whatever you think of him, it's quite nice to see a Prime Minister who actually seems to have some political nous. The last three had all the political nous of a housebrick.

If anything, the only criticisim I have of the policy announcements so far is that they've been so quick, some of them could have been announced over the coming weeks, filling more news cycles with positive things.

 

[SargeNpton]

I actually think that's a positive move because it puts that slimy little weasel somewhere where he can't do any damage.

Funding the bus cap by converting foreign aid from grants to loans is smooth. Funding the VAT cut by scrapping Digital ID is smooth. Whatever you think of him, it's quite nice to see a Prime Minister who actually seems to have some political nous. The last three had all the political nous of a housebrick.

So, if the below is true, where exactly will the money come from to pay for the VAT cut?

Burnham announces £850m tax cut on energy bills but faces questions over funding

The VAT reduction will be paid for by scrapping the digital ID card scheme, but former minister Darren Jones said that project was unfunded.

www.standard.co.uk

Burnham announces £850m tax cut on energy bills but faces questions over funding​

The VAT reduction will be paid for by scrapping the digital ID card scheme, but former minister Darren Jones said that project was unfunded.

 

[styles]

My bold

The saving suggests that they travel each way on every week day.
Are there no weekly or monthly tickets available to give a discount? There certainly are around here.

I just want to chip in here and say that while there may be weekly or monthly or annual tickets, having been in this position myself, it may not always be feasible if you don't have the cash in your pocket. Weekly perhaps, but when I was relying on buses I certainly couldn't afford the outlay of a monthly season ticket.

 

[Djgr]

I actually think that's a positive move because it puts that slimy little weasel somewhere where he can't do any damage.

Funding the bus cap by converting foreign aid from grants to loans is smooth. Funding the VAT cut by scrapping Digital ID is smooth. Whatever you think of him, it's quite nice to see a Prime Minister who actually seems to have some political nous. The last three had all the political nous of a housebrick.

Only the last three!!!

 

[JamesT]

Only the last three!!!

You may loathe the man for many reasons, but it's undeniable that Boris Johnson had political talent. Getting elected as a Tory in London, being on the winning side in the referendum, then getting a decent majority going to the country in a general election.

 

[TheSmiths82]

My bold

The saving suggests that they travel each way on every week day.
Are there no weekly or monthly tickets available to give a discount? There certainly are around here.

Without going into too much detail he lives in a rural area and mostly rural county. He can actually get a direct bus (outskirts of Greater Manchester) to work from where he lives bus the monthly bus passes are very expensive. The was cheaper for him to buy £3 singles, which will now cost him just £2. I live in the GM area and occasionally get the bus to work if I have been out the night before, it is a two bus journey but as we have the hopper system it still only costs me £2 to get to work and £2 to get back. Before the Bee Network I and the national cap I would have been forced to buy a Dayrider which adjusting the inflation would probably cost about £8 now. I know I am going slightly off topic but it is Andy Burnham we have thanks for. He claims he also was the one that suggested the original £2 cap which was introduced under Johnson and that Burnham worked with Johnson to achieve it. I am not sure how true that is.

 

[gg1]

If anything, the only criticisim I have of the policy announcements so far is that they've been so quick, some of them could have been announced over the coming weeks, filling more news cycles with positive things.

I suspect there will be another announcement tomorrow, with the rate of the drip feed slowing down to one or two per week from next week.

There's sound logic in a comms strategy of utterly dominating the headlines with multiple talking points in at least the first week of his premiership.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Without going into too much detail he lives in a rural area and mostly rural county. He can actually get a direct bus (outskirts of Greater Manchester) to work from where he lives bus the monthly bus passes are very expensive. The was cheaper for him to buy £3 singles, which will now cost him just £2. I live in the GM area and occasionally get the bus to work if I have been out the night before, it is a two bus journey but as we have the hopper system it still only costs me £2 to get to work and £2 to get back. Before the Bee Network I and the national cap I would have been forced to buy a Dayrider which adjusting the inflation would probably cost about £8 now. I know I am going slightly off topic but it is Andy Burnham we have thanks for. He claims he also was the one that suggested the original £2 cap which was introduced under Johnson and that Burnham worked with Johnson to achieve it. I am not sure how true that is.

Thanks for the information.
I had assumed that the price of season tickets had been re-calculated to reflect the base single fare being £3?£2 but it seems not. Here, there certainly seem to be plenty of passengers travelling on some sort of pass held on their phone.

 

[JamesT]

Thanks for the information.
I had assumed that the price of season tickets had been re-calculated to reflect the base single fare being £3?£2 but it seems not. Here, there certainly seem to be plenty of passengers travelling on some sort of pass held on their phone.

The 'cap' works by subsidising the cost of single tickets down to £3/£2. Return/period/etc. aren't subsidised, so if the operators reduced those ticket prices in line they would presumably be losing money.

 

[ainsworth74]

I suspect there will be another announcement tomorrow, with the rate of the drip feed slowing down to one or two per week from next week.

There's sound logic in a comms strategy of utterly dominating the headlines with multiple talking points in at least the first week of his premiership.

Especially as we're in the silly season again when there just isn't that much news. Past few summers have ended up often being dominated by Farage and Reform. In part because the Government hasn't had much to say. Even though a lot of this stuff isn't earth shattering there's a certain value to making sure that the media has something to talk about other than whatever Reform and Farage want to. Quite apart from some of it actually being a good idea or at least helping things feel less miserable!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Only the last three!!!

Johnson, for all his many many faults, was actually pretty good at this politics lark.

 

[JamieL]

Johnson, for all his many many faults, was actually pretty good at this politics lark.

No he wasn't. Politics is the process by which groups of people make decisions, resolve conflicts, and distribute resources and power within a society. That is very different from being a divisive populist.

 

[Mr. SW]

Johnson only became Prime Minister because Mummy and Daddy bought it for him.

 

[Merle Haggard]

The 'cap' works by subsidising the cost of single tickets down to £3/£2. Return/period/etc. aren't subsidised, so if the operators reduced those ticket prices in line they would presumably be losing money.

Bus companies' marketing people could take advantage of this.

If, by keeping the current price levels for returns/seasons etc, they drive passengers away from buying these tickets towards using individual 'cap' fares for each journey because, for the passenger, the cost of the latter works out cheaper than the former the bus company might counter-intuitively increase its revenue. This is because, although the passenger is paying less, their use of the 'cap' generates extra income - Government re-imbursement - which may make the total receipts from each 'cap' journey greater than that from the returns etc. that the passenger bought before.

 

[edwin_m]

Johnson, for all his many many faults, was actually pretty good at this politics lark.

No he wasn't. Politics is the process by which groups of people make decisions, resolve conflicts, and distribute resources and power within a society. That is very different from being a divisive populist.

He was good at making people believe in his ideas. Unfortunately the ideas in question were pretty terrible.

 

[brad465]

Especially as we're in the silly season again when there just isn't that much news. Past few summers have ended up often being dominated by Farage and Reform. In part because the Government hasn't had much to say. Even though a lot of this stuff isn't earth shattering there's a certain value to making sure that the media has something to talk about other than whatever Reform and Farage want to. Quite apart from some of it actually being a good idea or at least helping things feel less miserable!

For once I think Farage and Reform UK are trying to avoid being in the spotlight right now