Very poor lighting on trains

[Islineclear3_1]

@76020 You won't be old enough to remember travelling around in South and southeast London in vandalised suburban compartment stock on dark winter evenings with bulbs missing and therefore, dark compartments where you could not move through the train

 

[76020]

Please explain which components haven't been maintained that have directly resulted in the scenario you encountered?

You seem very sure so I presume you have an answer?

A thread hasn't run its course just because you haven't got the response you wanted.

Obviously the lights, what is involved in getting them working?, I have no idea, as I have already stated I am no electrician.

I have found that nearly every reply has not mentioned that it is the train companies fault, instead it has been thrown back at me for bringing this up.
In saying that, I think that the purpose of a forum is for people to express their views, everybody is entitled to their view and it should be respected.

Once again, I will say that the only purpose that I raised this thread was to see if anybody has had a similar experience and a few have replied to say that they have.

 

[The exile]

Obviously the lights, what is involved in getting them working?, I have no idea, as I have already stated I am no electrician.

I have found that nearly every reply has not mentioned that it is the train companies fault, instead it has been thrown back at me for bringing this up.
In saying that, I think that the purpose of a forum is for people to express their views, everybody is entitled to their view and it should be respected.

Once again, I will say that the only purpose that I raised this thread was to see if anybody has had a similar experience and a few have replied to say that they have.

It is the train company’s responsibility, just as it is yours when the bulb blows in your living room or the headlight of your car. Plenty of mechanical things go wrong without it being anyone’s fault.
I would agree with you that it is the operator’s fault if the train left the depot like that (but even then, as long as there were still lights on in the carriage it’s hardly the end of the world) but you seem very reluctant to accept that at the point you observed the problem, “the railway” might not have had any opportunity to do anything; or that a conscious reaction to an in-service failure might have been that allowing the train to continue in service was the lesser of two evils.
The fact that there have not been lots of responses saying that this has been observed suggests that, even if it was a result of poor maintenance, there is not a systemic problem.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I don't think it's fair apportioning blame to a train company. Some train companies might contract out repairs to a third party. Bulbs/filaments/electrics fail, often suddenly; no amount of maintenance can prevent that.

As I've mentioned upthread, yes, me, and every member of my family have traveled in darkened carriages or sub-optional lighting. Often, I wish the lighting gets dimmed or reduced if I want to sleep whilst commuting in the dark early mornings or late evenings rather than be dazzled by operating theatre-grade bright lighting.

Next time your train gets cancelled at short notice, perhaps you could rest in peace knowing that an electrician is probably fixing a lighting fault on it at the depot

 

[Russel]

Obviously the lights, what is involved in getting them working?, I have no idea, as I have already stated I am no electrician.

So, how can you insist that it's a maintenance issue?

Is it a maintenance issue when a fuse goes in your house and trips the circuit?

I have found that nearly every reply has not mentioned that it is the train companies fault, instead it has been thrown back at me for bringing this up.
In saying that, I think that the purpose of a forum is for people to express their views, everybody is entitled to their view and it should be respected.

No, nearly every response has explained to you how these things happen and faults are identified, you don't appear to be interested and just want to blame c2c for what you perceive to be maintenance issues without being able to explain why.

 

[sh24]

I'd love a life where everything is perfect and nothing ever breaks or goes wrong.

 

[The exile]

I'd love a life where everything is perfect and nothing ever breaks or goes wrong.

Or even just if it didn’t the most inconvenient moment to do it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2026 ==

Next time your train gets cancelled at short notice, perhaps you could rest in peace knowing that an electrician is probably fixing a lighting fault on it at the depot

Just had a look at RTT - the train in question was the last through up train of the night from stations beyond Upminster, thus increasing the importance of it not being cancelled because of faulty lights in one carriage. Again, not particularly relevant if it came off depot like it, but a very good reason for pressing on if the failure occurred in service.
EDIT: suppose I ought to say “last through train from West Horndon at least” as that’s the only one I checked.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

I dont have time to go through every post but the really late / early train from Manchester to Leeds (TPE) I've used on certain early flights, have regularly had the lights dimmed and where announced as such and was quite nice.

 

[76020]

So, how can you insist that it's a maintenance issue?

Is it a maintenance issue when a fuse goes in your house and trips the circuit?



No, nearly every response has explained to you how these things happen and faults are identified, you don't appear to be interested and just want to blame c2c for what you perceive to be maintenance issues without being able to explain why.

If a fuse blows in your house and you replace it, then you are carrying out maintenance of your property, i.e. to maintain it to a certain level.
Maintenance is defined as maintaining what ever needs to be maintained to an acceptable level, the train was not maintained to this, i.e. dark carriages.

I am interested how and why these things happen, so who would you blame for the poor lighting? it not my fault that I was experiencing this.

One thing that I have not said is that there is no way I am suggesting that this train should be cancelled with passengers stranded. What I am saying is that it should not be running in this state in the first place.

 

[AlterEgo]

Maintenance is defined as maintaining what ever needs to be maintained

That is absolutely meaningless...(!)

I am interested how and why these things happen, so who would you blame for the poor lighting?

Perhaps nobody. Sometimes circuits trip and need resetting. It does not necessarily mean someone has to bear blame or fault, though it will always be someone's *responsibility* to fix it when it goes wrong. Fault, blame, and responsibility are not the same thing, and if a bulb goes or a fuse blows in my house it may not be because of "poor maintenance", it may be quite simply that those things are life expired or failed randomly and unexpectedly.

One thing that I have not said is that there is no way I am suggesting that this train should be cancelled with passengers stranded. What I am saying is that it should not be running in this state in the first place

But if it happened in the course of the day's running then you are therefore advocating for the unit's removal and a cancellation or shortening or a service. This sort of fault seems fine to allow to continue in service for the rest of the day.

 

[76020]

That is absolutely meaningless...(!)


Perhaps nobody. Sometimes circuits trip and need resetting. It does not necessarily mean someone has to bear blame or fault, though it will always be someone's *responsibility* to fix it when it goes wrong. Fault, blame, and responsibility are not the same thing, and if a bulb goes or a fuse blows in my house it may not be because of "poor maintenance", it may be quite simply that those things are life expired or failed randomly and unexpectedly.


But if it happened in the course of the day's running then you are therefore advocating for the unit's removal and a cancellation or shortening or a service. This sort of fault seems fine to allow to continue in service for the rest of the day.

 

[ThirteenArches]

I don't think it's fair apportioning blame to a train company. Some train companies might contract out repairs to a third party.

The train company has a choice- do it yourself or get a contractor. Either way, they are responsible for the result. It's much more reliable to do it in house, but much more expensive. It's much cheaper in capital cost to contract out, but you have to maintain quality control. Much the same as decorating the house, that decorator quoted really cheap but look at what he did...

 

[Bald Rick]

If a fuse blows in your house and you replace it, then you are carrying out maintenance of your property

If a ligh tbulb blows on the landing in your house at, say, 1730, while you are downstairs, and you don’t notice it until you go upstairs at 2230, is that poor maintenance by you?

 

[Sun Chariot]

One thing that I have not said is that there is no way I am suggesting that this train should be cancelled with passengers stranded. What I am saying is that it should not be running in this state in the first place.

Your supposition is that:
a) all unlit lights were in that state before the unit started its services that day; and
b) the replacement parts were available at that stabling point that day, before the unit started its day's service; and
c) the human labour was available and had the knowledge / safety-case signed; and
d) the time needed to undertake required work was not at all detrimental to i) the specific unit's in-service availability and ii) other planned work at that stabling point that day.

None of those things is known, nor proven.

Many of us posted practical and pragmatic compromises.

 

[76020]

For example, Network Rail have engineers on call to maintain the signalling equipment, i.e. the signals, point machines etc, they are called maintenance engineers, part of their job is not only to fix things when they go wrong, they also do regular maintenance, they maintain whatever needs to be maintained within their remit.

 

[Russel]

If a fuse blows in your house and you replace it, then you are carrying out maintenance of your property, i.e. to maintain it to a certain level.
Maintenance is defined as maintaining what ever needs to be maintained to an acceptable level, the train was not maintained to this, i.e. dark carriages.

I am interested how and why these things happen, so who would you blame for the poor lighting? it not my fault that I was experiencing this.

One thing that I have not said is that there is no way I am suggesting that this train should be cancelled with passengers stranded. What I am saying is that it should not be running in this state in the first place.

You only replace the fuse when the issue becomes apparent...

You seem to be totally missing the point, that the unit in question almost certainly didn't enter service with failed lighting, it would have happened during the journey, perhaps even minutes before you joined the train, so what would you expect them to do, given that it's possible only yourself and a small group of other passenger would be aware at the time?

 

[76020]

If a lighbulb blows on the landing in your house at, say, 1730, while you are downstairs, and you don’t notice it until you go upstairs at 2230, is that poor maintenance by you?

You could say yes or no, but my place is not in complete darkness.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2026 ==

You only replace the fuse when the issue becomes apparent...

You seem to be totally missing the point, that the unit in question almost certainly didn't enter service with failed lighting, it would have happened during the journey, perhaps even minutes before you joined the train, so what would you expect them to do, given that it's possible only yourself and a small group of other passenger would be aware at the time?

How do you know if this was the case?

 

[Bald Rick]

You could say yes or no, but my place is not in complete darkness.

Neither was the train, as your picture helpfully shows.


Anyway I spoke to the fleet engineer responsible today, and he has resigned for failing you. Unfortunately he is very good, and future fleet reliability is now in question. Hope you feel better.

(Some parts of this post may not be true).

 

[AlterEgo]

You could say yes or no, but my place is not in complete darkness.

Neither is the train.

For example, Network Rail have engineers on call to maintain the signalling equipment, i.e. the signals, point machines etc, they are called maintenance engineers, part of their job is not only to fix things when they go wrong, they also do regular maintenance, they maintain whatever needs to be maintained within their remit.

Do you think every single failure of Network Rail assets is down to "poor maintenance"?

 

[76020]

Neither is the train.


Do you think every single failure of Network Rail assets is down to "poor maintenance"?

Part of the train was in complete darkness.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2026 ==

Neither is the train.


Do you think every single failure of Network Rail assets is down to "poor maintenance"?

Of course not

 

[Russel]

How do you know if this was the case?

I don't for sure, but I'm very confident a train wouldn't have left the depot on emergency lighting, especially given how risk averse the railway is in general.

 

[AlterEgo]

Part of the train was in complete darkness.

So would your house be if the fuse went for the upstairs lights.

Of course not

Indeed, sometimes things just go wrong and it isn't anyone's fault. So perhaps we can bury this ridiculous debate in the big hole you've dug by repeatedly insisting it is "poor maintenance" and that the unit definitely went into service with the fault.

 

[GoneSouth]

How do you know if this was the case?

Neither was the train

 

[The exile]

You could say yes or no, but my place is not in complete darkness.

From your original photo it appears that the lights above you were on (and you have said that not all lights in the coach were off)

How do you know if this was the case?

None of us does - but none of us has claimed we do. You have all the way through insisted that this is a failure of maintenance despite knowing no better than anyone else when the failure occurred. No one is saying you MUST be wrong - what you seem reluctant to accept is that you might be.

 

[Crithylum]

Part of the train was in complete darkness.

Was this a different part of the train to the provided photo? The photo in the first post still has some light even in the darkest parts. I can still very easily see an outline of the seats and general design of the posters.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Obviously this is very poor maintenance by the train operator C2C. I have made a complaint to C2C about this.

I look forward to your response to my post 74.

Have any of you had bad train lighting experiences?

Several, yes; I explain in post 56. Trains and life carried on.

 

[800002]

(Some parts of this post may not be true).

Just fell off the toilet reading this and caching up on events.

Surprised we're still on this merry-go-round, but hey ho... this is life.

 

[76020]

Just fell off the toilet reading this and caching up on events.

Surprised we're still on this merry-go-round, but hey ho... this is life.

So did I.

I think we have all had enough of this, I am going to cut and run.

There will be one last post from me which be the answer from C2C which I expect will be a waste of time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jul 2026 ==

Neither was the train, as your picture helpfully shows.


Anyway I spoke to the fleet engineer responsible today, and he has resigned for failing you. Unfortunately he is very good, and future fleet reliability is now in question. Hope you feel better.

(Some parts of this post may not be true).

Perhaps he resigned to get a post in Andy Burnham's new government.

Neither was the train, as your picture helpfully shows.


Anyway I spoke to the fleet engineer responsible today, and he has resigned for failing you. Unfortunately he is very good, and future fleet reliability is now in question. Hope you feel better.

(Some parts of this post may not be true).