Zip Oyster 5-11 & NR from TfL zone boundary

[RailExplorer]

Hi,

Can a zip oyster for 5-11 year olds be used as follows in conjunction with a national rail ticket:

Journey I'm making - Richmond to Portsmouth via Clapham (avoiding Waterloo).

5-11 zip oyster valid Richmond - Clapham - Surbiton.
I would then need a National Rail ticket from Surbiton to Portsmouth.

The question I have is, would the train from Clapham to Woking need to stop at Surbiton, or can I use one of the fast ones that pass through Surbiton?

Thank you,

 

[signed]

Deleted, misinformed

 

[James H]

A TfL zip Oyster being a season ticket/concessionary pass, the train don't need to stop at a station for a split

No. A Zip card is concessionary fare PAYG. Not a season ticket

 

[Tetchytyke]

The question I have is, would the train from Clapham to Woking need to stop at Surbiton, or can I use one of the fast ones that pass through Surbiton?

Yes, it would need to stop at Surbiton and your child would need to touch out at Surbiton. A 5-10 ZIP Oyster is a discounted PAYG card, not a season ticket or a Travelcard.

A TfL zip Oyster being a season ticket/concessionary pass, the train don't need to stop at a station for a split

A ZIP Oyster is neither a season ticket nor a concessionary pass.

It's a complicated one because the 5-10 ZIP brings the discounted PAYG fare down to zero, but that's not quite the same thing as it being an area-based concessionary pass. It isn't a Travelcard.

 

[talldave]

It's a complicated one because the 5-10 ZIP brings the discounted PAYG fare down to zero, but that's not quite the same thing as it being an area-based concessionary pass. It isn't a TrTravelcard.

It's zonal, so I take that to mean no stop required at ticket changeover point. When travelling with my son, we have never got off and tapped out at the last/first station in the zone, and never will. We both have concessionary Oysters. I use mine with an NR ticket daily and have been inspected several times without any issue. When they detect that my Oyster isn't tapped in I show my NR ticket and they're happy my journey is all ok.

 

[rmHawk765]

It's zonal, so I take that to mean no stop required at ticket changeover point. When travelling with my son, we have never got off and tapped out at the last/first station in the zone, and never will. We both have concessionary Oysters. I use mine with an NR ticket daily and have been inspected several times without any issue.

How did you not get charged for making an incomplete journey? An Oyster/contactless card cannot really be used for split ticketing as you need to alight, tap out, and enter with the ticket. It is easiest to just pay the extra money for a ticket from Clapham to be completely honest.

 

[talldave]

How did you not get charged for making an incomplete journey? An Oyster/contactless card cannot really be used for split ticketing as you need to alight, tap out, and enter with the ticket. It is easiest to just pay the extra money for a ticket from Clapham to be completely honest.

How can you be charged on cards on which you're not paying anything??

It's precisely what boundary zone tickets are for, which is what we use.

We're talking about Zip 5-10 Oyster (and in my case 60+ Oyster) neither of which have any concept of payment.

 

[rmHawk765]

We're talking about Zip 5-10 Oyster (and in my case 60+ Oyster) neither of which have any concept of payment.

A 5-10 Oyster is just a regular Oyster PAYG card with a concession as others have stated. It does not allow free travel on NR - that is only for TfL branded services. And in fact it does not even matter if you technically take the long way using only LO - you still get charged if you have not tapped out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2026 ==

It's precisely what boundary zone tickets are for, which is what we use.

The 5-10 Oyster is not aware of any boundary zone tickets you are using, unless these can be loaded onto it and I am mistaken.

 

[talldave]

A 5-10 Oyster is just a regular Oyster PAYG card with a concession as others have stated. It does not allow free travel on NR - that is only for TfL branded services. And in fact it does not even matter if you technically take the long way using only LO - you still get charged if you have not tapped out.

Please get your facts right. I'm staring at the Rail Delivery Group's map that shows the free NR travel area for Zip 5-10 holders. Where's your information coming from?

 

[pelli]

TfL's "Free travel areas without Oyster adult accompanying map" shows a vast network in South London, including Richmond - Clapham Junction - Surbiton, labelled as "5-10 Zip Oyster photocard required to travel free". I'll leave it to the forum experts to decide whether this means that it's an area based Ticket, thus being valid for non-stop splits, or if it's just a PAYG card with a vast set of single fares charged at £0.00 (and thus is invalid if not touched in).

It's a complicated one because the 5-10 ZIP brings the discounted PAYG fare down to zero, but that's not quite the same thing as it being an area-based concessionary pass. It isn't a Travelcard.

If it's a PAYG ticket that brings the fare down to zero, does that mean that *stopping* splits are also not allowed unless the child taps in/out at the split?

I note that for example Gatwick Airport to London Bridge costs £7.55 peak on the 5-10 Zip Card, but Gatwick airport to East Croydon costs £3.30 while East Croydon to London Bridge is free. This split obviously requires tapping out at East Croydon to be charged the PAYG fare for the first leg, but a paper/barcode Child Anytime Day Single for Gatwick Airport to East Croydon costs £3.40 and avoids the need to tap at East Croydon - there will be an incomplete journey on the Oyster Card for tapping out at London Bridge only, but in practice this is charged at £0.00. So is a stopping split between a National Rail ticket and an un-tapped 5-10 Zip Oyster valid or not?

How did you not get charged for making an incomplete journey? An Oyster/contactless card cannot really be used for split ticketing as you need to alight, tap out, and enter with the ticket. It is easiest to just pay the extra money for a ticket from Clapham to be completely honest.

Travelcards loaded on Oyster cards do not charge for incomplete taps within the zone of validity of the Travelcard. (Without this, they wouldn't be combineable with Boundary Zone tickets.) I have observed the same behaviour for 5-10 Zip Oyster Cards. Freedom Passes and 60+ London Oyster cards do not hold a PAYG balance at all so cannot charge for incomplete journeys either.

We're talking about Zip 5-10 Oyster (and in my case 60+ Oyster) neither of which have any concept of payment.

5-10 Zip Oyster can hold a PAYG balance, for use e.g. to Gatwick (see the red lines on the map) or on the Cable Car. (But it can also be used without a PAYG balance for free travel where valid.)

A 5-10 Oyster is just a regular Oyster PAYG card with a concession as others have stated. It does not allow free travel on NR - that is only for TfL branded services. And in fact it does not even matter if you technically take the long way using only LO - you still get charged if you have not tapped out.

It does allow free travel on basically all NR lines within Zones 1-9 (see the blue lines on the map).


Bonus question: For the National Rail Lines with "Free travel [...] when accompanied by a fare-paying adult", such as Euston - Watford, can the child make a non-stop split between "no ticket" and a Watford - Milton Keynes ticket, in the company of an adult with a Euston - Milton Keynes ticket?

 

[talldave]

The 5-10 Oyster is not aware of any boundary zone tickets you are using, unless these can be loaded onto it and I am mimistaken.

What are you talking about? You can't load any NR tickets on to any Oyster card, and I never said we did?
You buy normal NR tickets - paper or e-tickets - from boundary zone 6 to wherever.

 

[rmHawk765]

It does allow free travel on basically all NR lines within Zones 1-9 (see the blue lines on the map).

In that case TfL's site is contradicting themselves:
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/fares-beyond-zone-9

With a 5-10 Zip Oyster photocard children can travel free on journeys to and from:

• Broxbourne, Hertford East, Ware, St Margarets and Rye House
• Ockendon, Chafford Hundred, Purfleet and Grays
• Shenfield
• Watford Junction

Without a 5-10 Zip Oyster photocard, more than 4 children aged under 11 can travel free on journeys to and from:

• Watford Junction
• Stations between Iver and Reading

If travelling with an adult using:

• Pay as you go with contactless or an Oyster card
• A valid ticket
• 60+ London Oyster photocard
• Veterans Oyster photocard
• Freedom Pass

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2026 ==

Apologies - I forgot this is not outside of Zone 9.

However:

What are you talking about? You can't load any NR tickets on to any Oyster card, and I never said we did?
You buy normal NR tickets - paper or e-tickets - from boundary zone 6 to wherever.

Yes but if you are making the journey from Richmond to Surbiton by Oyster, you will need to tap out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2026 ==

Please get your facts right. I'm staring at the Rail Delivery Group's map that shows the free NR travel area for Zip 5-10 holders. Where's your information coming from?

My apologies, I was thinking about beyond Zone 9.

 

[talldave]

Note for parents travelling with children outside the zone 6 boundary: Sometimes it's worth checking the cost of Groupsave tickets treating the children as adults.

 

[rmHawk765]

or if it's just a PAYG card with a vast set of single fares charged at £0.00 (and thus is invalid if not touched in).

Given that Zip Oysters use a 'Travelcard' for free bus & tram travel, it is possible there is additionally a Travelcard for free rail travel on a 5-10 Oyster, though TfL does not seem to publish this information.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2026 ==

Travelcards loaded on Oyster cards do not charge for incomplete taps within the zone of validity of the Travelcard.

But how is the 5-10 Oyster supposed to know you have not travelled outside of the (supposed) Travelcard zone without a tap out?

 

[talldave]

5-10 Zip Oyster can hold a PAYG balance, for use e.g. to Gatwick (see the red lines on the map) or on the Cable Car. (But it can also be used without a PAYG balance for free travel where valid.)

And where outside TfL's zones are the OP and myself going to tap an Oyster card??

As I've said several times already, boundary zone NR tickets it is, every time.

 

[rmHawk765]

And where outside TfL's zones are the OP and myself going to tap an Oyster card??

To enter Richmond... The 5-10 Oyster is a PAYG card as myself and others have said several times. You cannot treat it like a Travelcard per se.

 

[talldave]

To enter Richmond... The 5-10 Oyster is a PAYG card as myself and others have said several times. You cannot treat it like a Travelcard per se.

Richmond is in Zone 4 where a 5-10 Zip Oyster doesn't need a PAYG balance.

This thread is about travelling outside a Zip 5-10 Oyster's area of free travel validity. It's PAYG capability is useless at Portsmouth so why keep mentioning it? In fact it’s PAYG capability is mostly useless unless you're travelling on the cable car.

So, to travel beyond its zone 6 validity, an NR ticket from boundary zone 6 to the required destination is what is needed. I feel a lot of the keyboard warriors on here don't actually live in London with a child aged 5-10 and hence haven't actually used the Zip card the OP is asking about.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2026 ==

Given that Zip Oysters use a 'Travelcard' for free bus & tram travel, it is possible there is additionally a Travelcard for free rail travel on a 5-10 Oyster, though TfL does not seem to publish this information.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2026 ==


But how is the 5-10 Oyster supposed to know you have not travelled outside of the (supposed) Travelcard zone without a tap out?

Why does it matter if you don't get off the train to tap out and not be charged anything? And you can't tap out at most of the 2000+ stations in the UK where it's not valid, you need an NR ticket from the boundary zone where its validity ended.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2026 ==

However:

Yes but if you are making the journey from Richmond to Surbiton by Oyster, you will need to tap out.

Richmond to Surbiton is within the Zip card's area of validity so of course you tap in and tap out on the Oyster readers at those stations.

But this thread is about travelling to Portsmouth?!

 

[Tetchytyke]

So, to travel beyond its zone 6 validity, an NR ticket from boundary zone 6 to the required destination is what is needed. I feel a lot of the keyboard warriors on here don't actually live in London with a child aged 5-10 and hence haven't actually used the Zip card the OP is asking about.

The ZIP Oyster is described on the TfL website as a PAYG ticket. The 5-10 version brings the fare down to zero, the 11-16 version brings it down to 50%.

To be able to use it on a non-stop split the ticket needs to be a season ticket, a zonal ticket, or an area-based concessionary card.

I don’t see that it is either of those, so a non-stop split wouldn’t be permitted in my opinion. How it works on the ground might be different.

 

[MikeWh]

It's been a while since I had any zip cards within my family, let alone 5-10 ones. My understanding is that the entry charge within zones 1-9 is zero, so there is no penalty for not touching out, and vice-versa not touching in and a zero exit charge. The 5-10 zip card is not a travelcard, and it can definitely hold credit, which on trains is needed for Gatwick, Epsom, Radlett, Potters Bar and Hertford North (and HS1). I will make enquiries, although I'm asking lots of questions at the moment and don't want to wind up my contacts.

 

[rmHawk765]

But this thread is about travelling to Portsmouth?!

OP are asking whether they need to stop at Surbiton. And the answer is yes - they need to stop and wait for the next train because they need to tap out.

Richmond is in Zone 4 where a 5-10 Zip Oyster doesn't need a PAYG balance.

That doesn't mean you can just not tap out. The card does not know where you have gone and it will charge some sort of maximum fare. How specifically this works with no balance I do not know, but the logic that having no money on it magically means you couldn't have travelled out of the free zone makes no sense.

Why does it matter if you don't get off the train to tap out and not be charged anything?

Because you will be charged something by not tapping out. That is literally how PAYG works.

It's PAYG capability is useless at Portsmouth so why keep mentioning it?

Because OP are not buying a ticket from Richmond to Portsmouth, they are buying it from Surbiton. Their child would need to use it like a PAYG card because it is one, tapping out at Surbiton. I keep mentioning it because it answers their question. You cannot just not tap out and expect there to be no negative outcome, therefore a stopping train is needed. That is it, done and dusted. Yes, you can risk not tapping out, but without further information I certainly wouldn't do so.

you need an NR ticket from the boundary zone where its validity ended.

But you have to tap out, you can't just have the ticket and pass through. In TfL's eyes whatever you do outside of the Oyster/contactless zone is completely irrelevant.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2026 ==

The reason I believe you can't just not tap out is because otherwise, you'd be able to use this card from a London station to literally anywhere, and assuming no ticket checks are done TfL will never know. It does not make sense.

 

[MikeWh]

Because you will be charged something by not tapping out. That is literally how PAYG works.

Do you have a source which says that you will be charged something on a 5-10 zip card touched in within the zones?

The reason I believe you can't just not tap out is because otherwise, you'd be able to use this card from a London station to literally anywhere, and assuming no ticket checks are done TfL will never know. It does not make sense.

Beyond zones 1-9 TfL don't care. It's the TOC which is losing money if they don't check.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The 5-10 zip card is not a travelcard, and it can definitely hold credit, which on trains is needed for Gatwick, Epsom, Radlett, Potters Bar and Hertford North (and HS1). I will make enquiries

Thank you, I’d be interested. I’m an irregular visitor to London but Little Tyke has a 5-10 Oyster. I’ve always assumed it isn’t valid for a non-stopping split but if it is I’d be pleased.

 

[rmHawk765]

Do you have a source which says that you will be charged something on a 5-10 zip card touched in within the zones?

Why would it work any different to any other Oyster card? Again, if you've been able to contact TfL about this that is far preferable over arguing over it.

Beyond zones 1-9 TfL don't care. It's the TOC which is losing money if they don't check.

So what if they are going to a Zone 7-9 station? TfL would surely care then.

 

[MikeWh]

Why would it work any different to any other Oyster card?

Because the fares are zero for the vast majority of journeys. The last thing TfL want is bad publicity from families when an inadvertent failure to touch renders a card unusable at barriers because it has a negative balance. It's also why all Oyster cards get no deduction on entry at Heathrow.

So what if they are going to a Zone 7-9 station? TfL would surely care then.

Well the 5-10 fare for Amersham (9) to Dartford (8) is a round £0.00.

if you've been able to contact TfL about this that is far preferable over arguing over it.

Agreed, but you seemed to be posting authoritatively, so I wondered what informed that position.

 

[pelli]

Why would it work any different to any other Oyster card? Again, if you've been able to contact TfL about this that is far preferable over arguing over it.

While your understanding that incomplete journeys are charged some sort of (non-zero) maximum fare is correct for a simple Oyster card with PAYG, it is definitely not correct for an Oyster card with a Travelcard loaded.

Here is a journey (anonymised) I made recently tapping in at a station covered by my Travelcard and then not tapping out at the other end, and as you can see I was charged a "maximum fare" of "Free".

This behaviour for Oyster Cards with Travelcards loaded is well known (see, for example, the article on MikeWh's Oyster Fares website). The question is whether 5-10 Zip Oyster cards behave in the same way. I have observed 5-10 Zip Oyster Cards having incomplete journeys charged at £0.00 (I would provide a screenshot as evidence if the photocard website weren't under maintenance this week), and MikeWh seems to agree:

My understanding is that the entry charge within zones 1-9 is zero, so there is no penalty for not touching out, and vice-versa not touching in and a zero exit charge.

Like Tetchytyke, I would be interested to find out what type of ticket the 5-10 Zip Oyster should be interpreted as:
1. Is it an "area based ticket" allowing splits with another (National Rail single/return) ticket without requiring the train to stop at the split point?
2. If not, is it valid as a free ticket even if not tapped in/out, thus allowing splits with another ticket providing the train stops at the split point, but not requiring the child to disembark to touch in/out?
3. Or is it only valid if tapped in and out, thus effectively requiring a change of train at the split point?

 

[signed]

I struggle to see how different it is to a TfL 60+? That is why I believe in what I said in #2

The consensus appears to be that a TfL 60+ is an area-based ticket, since Trainsplit will offer Boundary Zones when selecting the 60+ option on there

Apart from the validity zone, I don’t see, from a outsider, any difference

 

[MikeWh]

I struggle to see how different it is to a TfL 60+?

The 60+ Oyster photocard is literally an off-peak zones 1-9 travelcard. You cannot add credit and can only use it on some TfL services beyond zone 9.
The zip 5-10 photocard is a PAYG Oyster card which happens to charge zero for the vast majority of it's journeys.

 

[signed]

The 60+ Oyster photocard is literally an off-peak zones 1-9 travelcard. You cannot add credit and can only use it on some TfL services beyond zone 9.
The zip 5-10 photocard is a PAYG Oyster card which happens to charge zero for the vast majority of it's journeys.

Thanks Mike for the precisions

I’ll delete my #2 and let you the experts extract a better opinion than mine

 

[talldave]

The reason I believe you can't just not tap out is because otherwise, you'd be able to use this card from a London station to literally anywhere, and assuming no ticket checks are done TfL will never know. It does not make sense.

Right, so you believe, you don't actually know - now we're getting somewhere.

What has travel on an NR service got to do with TfL outside the zones? Answer- nothing.

It doesn't matter if the destination is Glasgow, the child still needs an NR ticket from a Boundary Zone to Glasgow. NR TOCs are perfectly capable of checking tickets across the entire UK and do so.

Bearing in mind that for free travel on TfL services an accompanied child doesn't even need a Zip 5-10 Oyster card, why do you think TfL will be so upset at being unable to know to exactly which part of London the free journey was taken?

The Zip 5-10 Oyster card only becomes mandatory on NR services where, if the child is ticket inspected, they're either going to show a tapped in Zip 5-10 Oyster card or an NR Boundary Zone to Somewhere ticket depending on whether they've left/entered the zone or not.

 

[rmHawk765]

Agreed, but you seemed to be posting authoritatively, so I wondered what informed that position.

My apologies, I was fairly certain I understood how this worked...

Here is a journey (anonymised) I made recently tapping in at a station covered by my Travelcard

Well we'll have to find out whether the 5-10 Oyster uses any form of Travelcard, otherwise this is a bit of a moot comparison.

What has travel on an NR service got to do with TfL outside the zones? Answer- nothing.

I was under the impression that travel to stations beyond Zone 9 but still under the Oyster PAYG zone has something to do with TfL but I guess it's entirely up to the TOC.