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I think the loops at Belford are electrified, but the start of the Bedlington line where they turn the DMU at Morpeth isn't. The Morpeth loops are, but I don't know if the signalling would permit using them to reverse.
Feels to an outsider like something that shouldn't be insurmountable if there was a genuine desire to run those trains with EMUS.
Just passed Belford, looks like it is electrified! However probably wouldn’t be considered worth retaining a couple of 323s just for 2tpd, unless as suggested the service was improved.
The 323s are only slightly newer than the Networkers, and nobody is planning further use for them when they go.
The 323s were also weirdly non standard for a BR order. A tiny manufacturer, using dutch traction equipment. I assume Hunslet offered the best deal, and maybe BREL and Metro-Cammell weren't interested or too busy, but an AC Networker derivative would have ensured a lot more commonality going forward.
There was a lot of hope in the press at the time that the supposed "intrinsically safe" Holec electricals would significantly reduce the amount of signals and other electrical immunisations required to get them into service. The theory was that the design was incapable of interfering with the signalling and so would cut the time and cost of deployment.
Whether that was a correct belief is for someone better qualified than me to comment on
I believe Hunslet were hoping (betting) on followup orders - I think a DMU/DEMU followup was being planned? But the 1991 recession and the pause on rolling stock procurement ~1993 onwards during privatisation finished off Hunslet.
If more Hunslet units had been ordered then the parts would be less "non-standard" as there would have been more fleets sharing at least some of the components. Alas.
Although even then given how little parts the two types of 465s shared (I once heard someone say "only the seats") maybe it still would have been that the 323s components were still unique!
Regional Railways also saw them as "their" train, just like NSE did with the Networkers.
The first follow-up order was supposed to be for the Airedale/Wharfdale electrification (ultimately was 333s, after the stop-gap 308s lasted a lot longer). I think there was even suggestions of a small top-up to that if WYPTE was agreeable to allow the 321/9s to go to Scotland for the North Berwick services.
After that, the 303s needed replacing on Strathclyde and then the 310s in the West Midlands. So it's easy to see how the fleet could have kept steadily growing as a family.
In addition, Hunslet proposed a DMU derivative - the Class 157. In artist's images this was always shown in Strathclyde PTE colours, and would have replaced the 101s. Again, I am sure I read somewhere at the time there were suggestions of options to allow the 12 Strathclyde PTE sponsored 156s (even though 14 carried their colours) to be replaced and cascades. You could have seen some of the other PTEs being interested as well, which would have allowed other DMU cascades to replaced the 101s and 117s that were given life-extension overhauls, and maybe even the Club Train loco-hauled services.
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Just passed Belford, looks like it is electrified! However probably wouldn’t be considered worth retaining a couple of 323s just for 2tpd, unless as suggested the service was improved.
Cheap enough lease deal could tip it if there was a commitment to use the released stock on the Northumberland Line for strengthening purposes. With a smartly written business case, with the backing of Nexus, it might tempt our new devolution-friendly PM as a good news story of his agenda in action.
I think the loops at Belford are electrified, but the start of the Bedlington line where they turn the DMU at Morpeth isn't. The Morpeth loops are, but I don't know if the signalling would permit using them to reverse.
Feels to an outsider like something that shouldn't be insurmountable if there was a genuine desire to run those trains with EMUS.
If the line is electrified and EMUs are availabl, in my view EMUs should be used. Maybe if the government had pressed ahead with electrification rather than cancelling various schemes, there wouldn’t be as many EMUs sat around!
Just passed Belford, looks like it is electrified! However probably wouldn’t be considered worth retaining a couple of 323s just for 2tpd, unless as suggested the service was improved.
Don't they interwork with other services? If Morpeth were electric then it would have have shuttle back and forth to Newcastle (or Durham or somewhere on the ECML).
Though perhaps a 110mph 350 could find a path to run further north (not necessarily all stations) to Berwick or somewhere.
Don't they interwork with other services? If Morpeth were electric then it would have have shuttle back and forth to Newcastle (or Durham or somewhere on the ECML).
Though perhaps a 110mph 350 could find a path to run further north (not necessarily all stations) to Berwick or somewhere.
They used to interwork - now all but one of the Morpeth services appear to run to/from Newcastle (there’s a single Hexham-Morpeth service on weekday peak evenings). Weekends are a bit different I think.
They used to interwork - now all but one of the Morpeth services appear to run to/from Newcastle (there’s a single Hexham-Morpeth service on weekday peak evenings). Weekends are a bit different I think.
The 0843 to Morpeth arrives 0905 and sets off back to Newcastle at 0927, arriving 0949. 6 minutes after the 0943 departure. So if it doesn't interwork that's a 54 minute layover at Newcastle, and the service would need 2 units.
Definitely makes me wonder if a 110mph unit could find a path to Chester-le-Street & Durham, or to Alnmouth & Berwick.
The 0843 to Morpeth arrives 0905 and sets off back to Newcastle at 0927, arriving 0949. 6 minutes after the 0943 departure. So if it doesn't interwork that's a 54 minute layover at Newcastle, and the service would need 2 units.
Definitely makes me wonder if a 110mph unit could find a path to Chester-le-Street & Durham, or to Alnmouth & Berwick.
For most of the day the services have a 50+ turnaround at Newcastle. They formerly went through to Carlisle but the Newcastle to Carlisle part was tacked onto to the Middlesbrough express service instead.
As identified this changes at tea time when the service that arrives into Newcastle approx 1650ish forms the 1714 Chathill and back so the Hexham service extends to Morpeth to fill in the gap.
Modern Railways reckons the first example entered passenger service around the beginning of 1994. So that puts the ones currently at Northern on between 32 and 34 years of service approximately when they go off lease. A sensible life expiry if you ask me.
It has been suggested on here that the units that are off lease already are not serviceable and that in any case even if they were the parts have probably been raided now to keep the main fleet running.
The 323s must be a increasing pain to maintain. The original manufacturer went bust so every replacement part probably costs more than the going rate and which only gets worse each year.
I will be sad to see the 323s go. They have been a workhorse of the Northern network for what feels like an eternity. They were royalty compared to the 150s or Pacers. Even when the dilapidated and dated Class 319s were introduced in 2015 it showed how good they were for early 1990s train.
The Class 350s aren't to be sniffed at and 4 carriages is an upgrade. The idea that Southeastern would have to still deal with the 465s while Northern get their 323s replaced with 350s on commuter services would have been laughable 10 years ago.
Would have thought some for freight but this has not worked out well for other surplus units like 321's with them being scrapped. I expect they will be scrapped unless a few get exported abroad.
The similar vintage class 81 18 fleet Malaysian ones have about 5 refurbished left in service according to wiki, and read they also had issues getting parts to keep them going.
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