Dangerous doors on the 1992TS

[RacsoMoquette]

Today I was travelling on the Central Line at Stratford (Eastbound), I boarded a train on the platform with no indication that the train was about to depart, when suddenly the doors of the train closed very powerfully without any audible or even any visual warning. The driver did not even say mind the doors, and the were no nearby platform attendants to oversee the door closure safely.

I was carrying a large rectangular piece of large artwork I had collected from a galley earlier in London. The doors shut on the wrapped up pictures I was carrying, and they closed with such a force I feared they may have caused some damage to my artwork. Even worse was that the doors did not even reopen, I thought tube trains reopened the doors if they are obstructed? possibly a door system failure? If this was such, Why was the train even allowed to run in service? I fear if a buggy or push chair got caught in the door, the consequences should have been severe. The driver didn’t say anything and the were no platform staff to help us. It was the sheer helpfulness of a strong man to tug open the doors to free my item. The train even began to move with my item still trapped in the doors, it was not until the man forced open the doors, that the train stopped suddenly, a emergency brake maybe on ATO system?

How can trains run if they have unreliable and dangerous door systems like this? It the an issues with the maintenance of the trains or a severe design flaw with the door systems on the Central Line trains? I am sure other lines like the Northern and Jubilee Line would have their doors reopen if any item was trapped? I have seen from first hand experience. As for the lack of any warnings for the subsequent closure of the doors, and the sheer force in which they closed, I fear for other similar experiences which could have easily been much worse, if they had hit any human body or property for that matter. And that the train actually began to move with the item trapped. It wasn’t until the man forced the doors open that the train stopped. I reckon the train had stopped about half way up the platform, as I was in the rear most carriage. A stressful event it was and could have been an expensive ordeal, had my large artworks sustained damage, luckily they were well wrapped!

 

[bramling]

Today I was travelling on the Central Line at Stratford (Eastbound), I boarded a train on the platform with no indication that the train was about to depart, when suddenly the doors of the train closed very powerfully without any audible or even any visual warning. The driver did not even say mind the doors, and the were no nearby platform attendants to oversee the door closure safely.

I was carrying a large rectangular piece of large artwork I had collected from a galley earlier in London. The doors shut on the wrapped up pictures I was carrying, and they closed with such a force I feared they may have caused some damage to my artwork. Even worse was that the doors did not even reopen, I thought tube trains reopened the doors if they are obstructed? possibly a door system failure? If this was such, Why was the train even allowed to run in service? I fear if a buggy or push chair got caught in the door, the consequences should have been severe. The driver didn’t say anything and the were no platform staff to help us. It was the sheer helpfulness of a strong man to tug open the doors to free my item. The train even began to move with my item still trapped in the doors, it was not until the man forced open the doors, that the train stopped suddenly, a emergency brake maybe on ATO system?

How can trains run if they have unreliable and dangerous door systems like this? It the an issues with the maintenance of the trains or a severe design flaw with the door systems on the Central Line trains? I am sure other lines like the Northern and Jubilee Line would have their doors reopen if any item was trapped? I have seen from first hand experience. As for the lack of any warnings for the subsequent closure of the doors, and the sheer force in which they closed, I fear for other similar experiences which could have easily been much worse, if they had hit any human body or property for that matter. And that the train actually began to move with the item trapped. It wasn’t until the man forced the doors open that the train stopped. I reckon the train had stopped about half way up the platform, as I was in the rear most carriage. A stressful event it was and could have been an expensive ordeal, had my large artworks sustained damage, luckily they were well wrapped!

Did you notice if the doors closed on the entire train, or was it just the one car? If the latter, someone could have maliciously pressed a porter button.

I’m not familiar with the 92 stock, but on the 95 (and presumably probably 96 stock) the doors are hard-wired to close immediately and with no chimes. The time delay and chimes are inserted by the train management system. It follows that with certain defects with the TMS (normally only one car affected) the doors can close suddenly with no warning. As I say, I’ve no idea if the 92 stock is similarly designed.

 

[Dstock7080]

Even worse was that the doors did not even reopen, I thought tube trains reopened the doors if they are obstructed? possibly a door system failure?

I am sure other lines like the Northern and Jubilee Line would have their doors reopen if any item was trapped?

1992, 1995, 1996 Stock are not fitted with obstacle detection on the doors; only 2009, 2024 and S Stock are.

 

[Nym]

Did you notice if the doors closed on the entire train, or was it just the one car? If the latter, someone could have maliciously pressed a porter button.

Anything wider than a buggy wheel will have prevented interlock, even without obstacle detection.

I’m not familiar with the 92 stock, but on the 95 (and presumably probably 96 stock) the doors are hard-wired to close immediately and with no chimes. The time delay and chimes are inserted by the train management system. It follows that with certain defects with the TMS (normally only one car affected) the doors can close suddenly with no warning. As I say, I’ve no idea if the 92 stock is similarly designed.

Not TMS on 1992TS but is only triggered by the doors close train wires driven by the active cab.

 

[WMasterJedi]

Even worse was that the doors did not even reopen, I thought tube trains reopened the doors if they are obstructed? possibly a door system failure? If this was such, Why was the train even allowed to run in service? I fear if a buggy or push chair got caught in the door, the consequences should have been severe.

How thin was this artwork? If it was thin, the train's interlock may not have been broken by it. A buggy or push chair would definitely break interlock due to their size.

 

[Russel]

I though there was a door close chime / hustle alarm on the 92 stock?

From memory it's not as loud as modern stock though.

 

[Mojo]

I though there was a door close chime / hustle alarm on the 92 stock?

Not all stock sounds door chimes when the porter buttons are used.

 

[jumble]

Not all stock sounds door chimes when the porter buttons are used.

I cannot recall ever hearing anything on the Rayners Lane terminators
I must listen next time

 

[Mojo]

I cannot recall ever hearing anything on the Rayners Lane terminators
I must listen next time

You won’t have done, the 73 stock doesn’t sound door chimes.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

You won’t have done, the 73 stock doesn’t sound door chimes.

1973TS does have door closure chimes, though not opening chimes, likewise the 1972TS and previous LU Stocks of the same vintage.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jul 2026 ==

How thin was this artwork? If it was thin, the train's interlock may not have been broken by it. A buggy or push chair would definitely break interlock due to their size.

The paintings were about 3 to 4cm thin, though they did have a two layers of bubble wrapping paper on them. Even though, it was still intriguing that the doors did not reopen. Could the driver have seen the CCTV footage in the cab? It was odd that they did not reopen all the saloon doors? Could they have had a piolet light visual? Presumably, as the train did depart, but then slowed down quickly. Another passenger helped open the doors, using brute force, to free the artwork we had.

 

[bramling]

1973TS does have door closure chimes, though not opening chimes, likewise the 1972TS and previous LU Stocks of the same vintage.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jul 2026 ==


The paintings were about 3 to 4cm thin, though they did have a two layers of bubble wrapping paper on them. Even though, it was still intriguing that the doors did not reopen. Could the driver have seen the CCTV footage in the cab? It was odd that they did not reopen all the saloon doors? Could they have had a piolet light visual? Presumably, as the train did depart, but then slowed down quickly. Another passenger helped open the doors, using brute force, to free the artwork we had.

As regards whether the driver could see, maybe. However remember that the driver is observing multiple screens that are pretty small, observing 30 sets of doors. Clearly the driver cannot closely observe everything. There is also an expectation (actually an obligation in the byelaws) for passengers not to obstruct closing doors, though you did say there was no chime warning.

The doors have a rubber edge, and interlock can certainly be obtained with small objects caught in there. One of the RAIB reports goes into some detail on this.

There does seem to be some misunderstanding of how train doors work. Unlike lifts, most trains pre 2009 stock don’t have any automatic reopening function. Lifts have to have it because they are unsupervised. If train doors re-opened in the same way lift doors do it would probably be impossible to depart certain platforms at busy times.

 

[Mojo]

1973TS does have door closure chimes, though not opening chimes, likewise the 1972TS and previous LU Stocks of the same vintage.

The 73 stock categorically does not have door chimes when being closed on the porter buttons, which is what is being discussed.

 

[D365]

There does seem to be some misunderstanding of how train doors work. Unlike lifts, most trains pre 2009 stock don’t have any automatic reopening function. Lifts have to have it because they are unsupervised. If train doors re-opened in the same way lift doors do it would probably be impossible to depart certain platforms at busy times.

This correlates with the introduction of BS EN 14752 in 2006, which set out the requirements for door closure audible warnings and automatic re-opening when an obstacle is detected. The 92TS is obviously not compliant* and would only ever be made compliant if the door system was to be changed out.

*not compliant to the requirements for obstacle detection

 

[RacsoMoquette]

This correlates with the introduction of BS EN 14752 in 2006, which set out the requirements for door closure audible warnings and automatic re-opening when an obstacle is detected. The 92TS is obviously not compliant and would only ever be made compliant if the door system was to be changed out.

So does this mean that lack of door closure chime on the 1992TS is a known and frequent issue? Have the door closure chimes on the 1992TS been updated as part of the CLIP package? Because TFL really can’t be operating non-compliant trains that run on such a major line like the Central.

 

[Nym]

So does this mean that lack of door closure chime on the 1992TS is a known and frequent issue? Have the door closure chimes on the 1992TS been updated as part of the CLIP package? Because TFL really can’t be operating non-compliant trains that run on such a major line like the Central.

No it does not. 1992TS has had close and open warning chimes from new, driven by the DTS.
Changes to it are (or were) part of the RVAR segment of CLIP which required different chimes for open and close functions.

Remember that compliance with standards is not generally retrospective to existing trains, or nothing more than a few years old would ever run, and major projects would restart every year or so as a new standard is released.

 

[GFE]

DTS on 92 stock has reliability issues ( which could affect the audible warning?) and is being replaced/enhanced as part of CLIP.

 

[Russel]

No it does not. 1992TS has had close and open warning chimes from new, driven by the DTS.
Changes to it are (or were) part of the RVAR segment of CLIP which required different chimes for open and close functions.

Remember that compliance with standards is not generally retrospective to existing trains, or nothing more than a few years old would ever run, and major projects would restart every year or so as a new standard is released.

With the 92 stock, I've noticed some cars/trains have much louder door chimes that others, some are very quiet actually.

 

[WMasterJedi]

With the 92 stock, I've noticed some cars/trains have much louder door chimes that others, some are very quiet actually.

That's expected with their design, I have a few 1996 stock door buttons and although different, they are slightly similar. Very similar designed button piece. Those use analogue circuitry to generate a frequency and it really wouldn't be too far fetched to assume that for the 1992 Stock too. Especially when you consider the 92 stock is older than the 96 stock so it wouldn't be an advance in technology problem if it was some sort of PCM playback. And again, if they're anything like the 96 buttons, each button will generate it's own chime sound.

Circuits like this rely on precise capacitance values and other component values to generate the sound and especially after over 30 years, capacitors can dry out (if electrolytic) or otherwise drift in value. Which can impact the tone slightly on the chimes along with their volume.

I'd be very surprised if this isn't the case!

 

[Nym]

That's expected with their design, I have a few 1996 stock door buttons and although different, they are slightly similar. Very similar designed button piece. Those use analogue circuitry to generate a frequency and it really wouldn't be too far fetched to assume that for the 1992 Stock too. Especially when you consider the 92 stock is older than the 96 stock so it wouldn't be an advance in technology problem if it was some sort of PCM playback. And again, if they're anything like the 96 buttons, each button will generate it's own chime sound.

Circuits like this rely on precise capacitance values and other component values to generate the sound and especially after over 30 years, capacitors can dry out (if electrolytic) or otherwise drift in value. Which can impact the tone slightly on the chimes along with their volume.

I'd be very surprised if this isn't the case!

It uses Mallory Sonalerts mounted above the doors.

They age, they break, they get replaced.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Out of interest, was this incident reported to TfL staff at the earliest opportunity? Did the door chimes work at following stations?

PTI incidents such as this are taken seriously, especially where there are allegations of no door chimes. Service control have processes in place to get them checked and, if necessary, get the train withdrawn from service.

Posting about it on the Internet after the fact doesn’t help resolve the problem.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

Well I travelled from Stratford (Eastbound) to Epping on that same train, and the car I was travelling which was towards the rear of the train, had intermittent door chimes, the chimes seemed to start after the doors had closed in some door leaves, while others seemed to play no chime. None of the doors in the car I was traveling in played any door open chime. This is also not the first time I have travelled on the 1992TS when the door chime either did not play at all or played once the doors were closing or shut. It is a bit odd as a door chime should sound about five seconds before the doors close.

This makes it likely that the point made above is true that the door chime is individually generated from the PCM Playback of the door button. Is this the case for modern trains? What makes their door chimes sound?

No, we didn’t report anything to TFL, had the situation been worse, we may have considered the option.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2026 ==

Well I travelled from Stratford (Eastbound) to Epping on that same train, and the car I was travelling which was towards the rear of the train, had intermittent door chimes, the chimes seemed to start after the doors had closed in some door leaves, while others seemed to play no chime, and at a few stations (like Stratford) no audible chimes could be heard at all in the car at all. None of the doors in the car I was traveling in played any door open chime. This is also not the first time I have travelled on the 1992TS when the door chime either did not play at all or played once the doors were closing or shut. It is a bit odd as a door chime should sound about five seconds before the doors close.

This makes it likely that the point made above is true that the door chime is individually generated from the PCM Playback of the door button. Is this the case for modern trains? What makes their door chimes sound?

No, we didn’t report anything to TFL, had the situation been worse, we may have considered the option.

 

[Nym]

Like I've said, it's nothing to do with PCM playback.

And like @bluegoblin7 said, if this was so traumatic, why not report it to the numerous staff available at Stratford, or any of the stations between there and Epping, several of which have long hours of operating platform duties.

As they also said, these incidents are taken seriously and once confirmed that the door chimes were non-functional, it would be out of service to depot or service to depot depending on the severity (the DISI for 1992TS used to make distinction based on how many door chimes are inoperable.) Update: "Back in my day, it would be OOS to depot."

This makes it likely that the point made above is true that the door chime is individually generated from the PCM Playback of the door button. Is this the case for modern trains? What makes their door chimes sound?

 

[WMasterJedi]

Like I've said, it's nothing to do with PCM playback.

Sorry for the confusion there, I just threw it out there as a possibility as I know some trains do that.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Well I travelled from Stratford (Eastbound) to Epping on that same train, and the car I was travelling which was towards the rear of the train, had intermittent door chimes, the chimes seemed to start after the doors had closed in some door leaves, while others seemed to play no chime. None of the doors in the car I was traveling in played any door open chime. This is also not the first time I have travelled on the 1992TS when the door chime either did not play at all or played once the doors were closing or shut. It is a bit odd as a door chime should sound about five seconds before the doors close.

This makes it likely that the point made above is true that the door chime is individually generated from the PCM Playback of the door button. Is this the case for modern trains? What makes their door chimes sound?

No, we didn’t report anything to TFL, had the situation been worse, we may have considered the option.

I rest my case. Serious enough to rant on the Internet but not serious enough to report the incident.

Ultimately door chimes are a safety critical component for those with certain accessible requirements. If you noticed an issue - and indeed were concerned about a painting - you probably should have said something.

I suspect there was actually one of two outcomes here:

• Door chimes functioned correctly, they were ignored or not noticed, and getting trapped was the OP’s own fault
• Door chimes were defective, but further inconvenience to the OP was less significant than delay of withdrawing train

If defective door (chime)s did cause damage to OP’s property there would certainly be a monetary claim from TfL if this had been reported and followed up at the earliest possibility. This would include operation of a PEA (Passenger Emergency Alarm) at the earliest opportunity.

 

[Starmill]

Most ordinary members of the public would probably feel they couldn't use the clearly marked emergency button for a door chime not sounding, for fear of being told off, or being told they're exaggerating a danger.

I might do it, if I were certain (and I mean certain) that the chime didn't sound before the door closed, but realistically, I might also hesitate, as I might be 90% sure but not 99.99% sure. Is this an 'emergency'? It doesn't seem to pass the duck test. However it clearly is a very serious hazard, so use of the button seems justified if one is certain about the facts.

 

[GFE]

Would be interesting if chimes were checked as part of any routine maintenance activity ( eg annually)

 

[Mawkie]

Most ordinary members of the public would probably feel they couldn't use the clearly marked emergency button for a door chime not sounding, for fear of being told off, or being told they're exaggerating a danger.

I might do it, if I were certain (and I mean certain) that the chime didn't sound before the door closed, but realistically, I might also hesitate, as I might be 90% sure but not 99.99% sure. Is this an 'emergency'? It doesn't seem to pass the duck test. However it clearly is a very serious hazard, so use of the button seems justified if one is certain about the facts.

Hold on, the OP said the train started moving with the artwork still jammed in the doors, if any part of the artwork (or anything else) was outside the train, then yes, a PEA is appropriate action to take.

Would be interesting if chimes were checked as part of any routine maintenance activity ( eg annually)

They are, and they are also checked at one of the following stations after an allegation of being trapped, particularly with injury - which of course requires a report being made to station staff (which from a passenger point of view basically consists of "The door chimes weren't working on that train I just got off heading to xxx" at which point the staff member may ask if you were sitting near the front, middle, or rear of the train).

 

[Benjwri]

Most ordinary members of the public would probably feel they couldn't use the clearly marked emergency button for a door chime not sounding, for fear of being told off, or being told they're exaggerating a danger.

I might do it, if I were certain (and I mean certain) that the chime didn't sound before the door closed, but realistically, I might also hesitate, as I might be 90% sure but not 99.99% sure. Is this an 'emergency'? It doesn't seem to pass the duck test. However it clearly is a very serious hazard, so use of the button seems justified if one is certain about the facts.

I can understand people not wanting to use the PEA, but TfL does have a 24 hour phone number and a web form to report safety issues and/or injuries.

 

[Starmill]

Hold on, the OP said the train started moving with the artwork still jammed in the doors, if any part of the artwork (or anything else) was outside the train, then yes, a PEA is appropriate action to take.

Yes although a train moving with an object trapped in the doors is always an emergency, regardless of anything to do with chimes.