Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[Amos390]

T19 has returned to Derby having had some wiring work done at Old Dalby

Update: it hasn't returned but I have seen it on test in Derby. It is going back to Old Dalby tonight

Ah so its doing the GBRf operated flows out of Old Dalby (usually performed by 003/004)?

 

[liamf656]

Ah so its doing the GBRf operated flows out of Old Dalby (usually performed by 003/004)?

Paths, not flows, but I think they're slightly different to the usual ones as this one is being tested for a different reason. GBRF were running them, I believe

 

[800001]

810017 on the over night test paths out of Newton Aycliffe last night.

 

[Doubleyellow]

Which was nothing to do with the engines.

Old Voith cooler group used to get fouled up (with crinkly radiator fins), even before MTU repower we (at Brush at the time) designed a new cooler group (with parallel flat fins for less fouling (though admittedly more fragile)).

The classic Valenta and VP185 were basically marine (read boat) engines designed for an unlimited supply of cooling water (the sea!), and a much more uniform (less demanding less stop/start) duty cycle.

Antifreeze in the coolant contributes to less conduction as well.

 

[Amos390]

Yesterday got to have a nice chat with the driver of 810022 on 1B82 out of Notts, who mentioned that one of the doors on the u it was out of use (I didn’t see which one though), presuming this has been fixed overnight at Etches, however not a good look seen as the unit had a fix made to try and help the doors

 

[800001]

Yesterday got to have a nice chat with the driver of 810022 on 1B82 out of Notts, who mentioned that one of the doors on the u it was out of use (I didn’t see which one though), presuming this has been fixed overnight at Etches, however not a good look seen as the unit had a fix made to try and help the doors

It isn't confirmed yet that work has been undertaken on that doors. That is an assumption after observing work been done on units.

 

[Trainman40083]

There I was, standing on a footbridge in Derby for 37512 + 730040 and parked down the line towards Derby was a Class 810. No idea which (circa 1245)

 

[iceman12]

EMR have just released a revised timetable citing 810 reliability as one of the reasons

 

[jthjth]

EMR have just released a revised timetable citing 810 reliability as one of the reasons

And I think EMR are getting grumpy with Hitachi. This is the first time I’ve seen EMR openly blame Hitachi. This in an email I have just received:

“We’re sorry that our Intercity services to and from London haven’t been as reliable as you, and we, expect recently. This follows service reliability issues with Hitachi Rail’s new Class 810 fleet and their maintenance of EMR’s existing Class 222 fleet.

We are committed to restoring the reliable service you rightly expect and are working with Hitachi Rail to resolve the issues affecting both fleets as quickly as possible.

To provide a consistent and reliable service while the issues are resolved, fromMonday 20 July 2026 we will be introducing a temporary reduced timetable for our Intercity services.”

 

[Amos390]

I feel like EMR are right to be annoyed with Hitachi, hardly anything has gone right with the 810s since their arrival, and it’s mostly been out of EMRs hands, not helped by the 222s starting to make their way out too.

 

[jthjth]

I feel like EMR are right to be annoyed with Hitachi, hardly anything has gone right with the 810s since their arrival, and it’s mostly been out of EMRs hands, not helped by the 222s starting to make their way out too.

In a BBC report the following statement from Hitachi was quoted:

A Hitachi Rail spokesperson said: "The Class 810 fleet has been in passenger service with East Midlands Railway since December 2025 and more than a third of the fleet has now been delivered.

"Hitachi Rail continues to work closely with all industry partners during the entry-into-service phase of the Class 810 fleet, implementing improvements and supporting the transition from the existing fleet to new Aurora trains.

"We remain focused on delivering the remainder of the fleet and supporting East Midlands Railway as more new trains enter passenger service. As part of this commitment, we are investing in additional testing activity at Long Marston Rail Innovation Centre to improve fleet introduction and delivery of the remaining trains."

Does anyone know what the additional Long Marston testing will involve? Is this something that was planned all along, or an emergency measure?

 

[800001]

In a BBC report the following statement from Hitachi was quoted:
”
A Hitachi Rail spokesperson said: "The Class 810 fleet has been in passenger service with East Midlands Railway since December 2025 and more than a third of the fleet has now been delivered.

"Hitachi Rail continues to work closely with all industry partners during the entry-into-service phase of the Class 810 fleet, implementing improvements and supporting the transition from the existing fleet to new Aurora trains.

"We remain focused on delivering the remainder of the fleet and supporting East Midlands Railway as more new trains enter passenger service. As part of this commitment, we are investing in additional testing activity at Long Marston Rail Innovation Centre to improve fleet introduction and delivery of the remaining trains."

Does anyone know what the additional Long Marston testing will involve? Is this something that was planned all along, or an emergency measure?

I would say Long Marston testing is now an 'emergency measure' none of the previous hitachi builds have used it.

The key difference between using this and using Old Dalby test track is that the Long Marston is a continuous loop which may make testing easier.

As the old Dalby line you go a couple of miles and have to change ends and go back etc

 

[Kite159]

I would say Long Marston testing is now an 'emergency measure' none of the previous hitachi builds have used it.

The key difference between using this and using Old Dalby test track is that the Long Marston is a continuous loop which may make testing easier.

As the old Dalby line you go a couple of miles and have to change ends and go back etc

Although the rebuilt Long Marston test track wasn't available for the other Hitachi builds. Also I'm sure I've read that Old Dalby is booked up for many months (hence why Porterbrook decided to invest in rebuilding the loop at Long Marston)

 

[Robin Edwards]

I'm not familiar with the specific differences between the Hitachi classes but is there a reason why suggested Unreliability of the EMR 810s may have bypassed the Avanti 805/807 introductions?

 

[Railperf]

I'm not familiar with the specific differences between the Hitachi classes but is there a reason why suggested Unreliability of the EMR 810s may have bypassed the Avanti 805/807 introductions?

Quote from a well know industry commentator AKA 'Captain Deltic' elsewhere: "They are, indeed, eessentially a new design, from Italy, not Japan, and incorporate changes of equipment supplier. Contrast with the reliability of the Avanti 805 bi-modes. Add in shorter bodies, so harder to package kit. Plus uprated engines for 125 mile/h running and this could be a bi-mode too far."

 

[800001]

810017, which was the unit that had been doing overnight testing out of Merchant Park, is now positioned in place to start its modifications.

 

[marshlinker]

Old Voith cooler group used to get fouled up (with crinkly radiator fins), even before MTU repower we (at Brush at the time) designed a new cooler group (with parallel flat fins for less fouling (though admittedly more fragile)). The classic Valenta and VP185 were basically marine (read boat) engines designed for an unlimited supply of cooling water (the sea!), and a much more uniform (less demanding less stop/start) duty cycle. Antifreeze in the coolant contributes to less conduction as well.

Not true, I'm afraid. The Marine version of the Valenta generally drove an alternator at a steady speed of 1200 rpm at a rating of 1746 hp.

The rail version used the manufacturers headline rating of 2500 at variable speeds up to 1500. Initially there were suggestions that the governing on the hat left a lot to be desired and drivers were able to race the engine beyond their rated limit. This resulted in the hsts being down rated to 2250hp.

The Marine engine also used a glycol water mix for cooling which was then cooled via a sea water heat exchanger.

The rail engine cooling issues were traced to British Rail using cheap o seals on the cylinder heads during depot maintenance and not using the correct or Indeed any antifreeze in some cases. There was a Roger Ford article on this in modern railways many moons ago.

 

[BorderCollie]

Construction of the first 810 began in January 2021. Sobering.

 

[Doubleyellow]

Not true I'm afraid. The Marine version of the Valenta generally drove an alternator at a steady speed of 1200 rpm at a rating of 1746 hp. The rail version used the manufacturers headline rating of 2500 at variable speeds up to 1500. Initially there were suggestions that the governing on the hat left a lot to be desired and drivers were able to race the engine beyond their rated limit. This resulted in the hsts being down rated to 2250hp.
The Marine engine also used a glycol water mix for cooling which was then cooled via a sea water heat exchanger.
The rail engine cooling issues were traced to British Rail using cheap o seals on the cylinder heads during depot maintenance and not using the correct or Indeed any antifreeze in some cases. There was a Roger Ford article on this in modern railways many moons ago.

Ooh thanks marshlinker (I was going a bit by "what i was told" as a youngster), I didn't know about the specific differences between the marine and rail versions, or the seawater heat exchanger - was it used/needed for both primary and secondary cooling circuits?

I was trying to say I thought the "design duty cycle" wasn't really expecting quite as many "stops and starts" (but maybe it was?)

We really did design a Brush cooler group though (with those fins) and replacing the old cardan shaft with a flexible drive shaft (which was a bit of a nightmare given all the build variation in powercars!)

 

[Robin Edwards]

Quote from a well know industry commentator AKA 'Captain Deltic' elsewhere: "They are, indeed, eessentially a new design, from Italy, not Japan, and incorporate changes of equipment supplier. Contrast with the reliability of the Avanti 805 bi-modes. Add in shorter bodies, so harder to package kit. Plus uprated engines for 125 mile/h running and this could be a bi-mode too far."

Thanks for responding @Railperf , interesting. Of the delivered units, there only seems to be a few that are working each day from what I've seen

 

[tsyxa]

Would someone please be able to summarise the current reliability issues that the 810s are facing? Surely it’s not doors anymore? Thanks in advance

 

[InTheEastMids]

Would someone please be able to summarise the current reliability issues that the 810s are facing? Surely it’s not doors anymore? Thanks in advance

Over on Twitter, rail journo Roger Ford said this:

I'm told there's no consistency to the faults - vary from train to train. So can't use classic ranking by frequency ( Top 10) to prioritize rectification work.

Roger Ford (@Captain_Deltic) on X

@philatrail I'm told there's no consistency to the faults - vary from train to train. So can't use classic ranking by frequency ( Top 10) to prioritize rectification work. Time to release the Strategic Reserve of IC125s, if someone at DfT can remember which tunnel they were mothballed in

x.com

 

[marshlinker]

Ooh thanks marshlinker (I was going a bit by "what i was told" as a youngster), I didn't know about the specific differences between the marine and rail versions, or the seawater heat exchanger - was it used/needed for both primary and secondary cooling circuits?

I was trying to say I thought the "design duty cycle" wasn't really expecting quite as many "stops and starts" (but maybe it was?)

We really did design a Brush cooler group though (with those fins) and replacing the old cardan shaft with a flexible drive shaft (which was a bit of a nightmare given all the build variation in powercars!)

The Intercooler was direct sea water cooling. All the rest of the engine was water glycol mix. The alternator had closed circuit air cooling cooled by a air/ sea water heat exchanger.
One of the early mass failures was the drillings for the alternator fan cracking and the securing bolts dropping in to the base of the (Brush) alternator.

 

[43096]

The rail version used the manufacturers headline rating of 2500 at variable speeds up to 1500. Initially there were suggestions that the governing on the hat left a lot to be desired and drivers were able to race the engine beyond their rated limit. This resulted in the hsts being down rated to 2250hp.

Not true. The Valenta in the HST has only ever been rated at 2,250hp. BR looked at having the East Coast sets (8 trailers rather than 7 of the Western) built rated at 2,500hp but decided against it on the grounds of standardisation.

 

[ainsworth74]

Just a note to say that if people wish to discuss the emergency timetable itself please would they use the thread linked here. This thread should be about the 810s introduction and the ongoing attempts to make them work as advertised. Many thanks!

 

[fgwrich]

Construction of the first 810 began in January 2021. Sobering.

Almost as sobering as our SWR 701 fleet, which has managed to outlive the franchise they were ordered by and built for and a subclass is still not in service!

I do wonder how Hitachi must be viewing the UK now. From the cracking of the entire 80X fleet to having to include the 385s as well, to the somewhat plagued with faults by design 810s. Then you’ve got the constant chopping and changing of the HS2 fleets by the Gov, I almost wouldn’t be surprised if they have looked for a get out clause already.

 

[Trainman40083]

Almost as sobering as our SWR 701 fleet, which has managed to outlive the franchise they were ordered by and built for and a subclass is still not in service!

I do wonder how Hitachi must be viewing the UK now. From the cracking of the entire 80X fleet to having to include the 385s as well, to the somewhat plagued with faults by design 810s. Then you’ve got the constant chopping and changing of the HS2 fleets by the Gov, I almost wouldn’t be surprised if they have looked for a get out clause already.

And yet people still order the Class 800 trains. Wasn't it the Class 810s where the grade of aluminium was changed? You can't help wondering if it would have been cheaper to extend St Pancras and have the standard longer trains.

 

[rmHawk765]

I'm not familiar with the specific differences between the Hitachi classes but is there a reason why suggested Unreliability of the EMR 810s may have bypassed the Avanti 805/807 introductions?

The 805s were not perfect either. To my best knowledge they still often run with some generator units/engines disabled (a newer design of these was used). But I agree it's almost incomparable to the 810s where the fleet is essentially not ready for proper service. I wonder if Hitachi will be obligated to make any necessary improvements if specific issues are pinpointed or if they will need to pay any amounts?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jul 2026 ==

Plus uprated engines for 125 mile/h running and this could be a bi-mode too far.

What exactly makes it so much harder to make an 810 do 125mph on diesel than a 222? They're both diesel electric multiple units.

 

[Teapot42]

What exactly makes it so much harder to make an 810 do 125mph on diesel than a 222? They're both diesel electric multiple units.

I'd imagine it's the electric side of things that makes the difference. (I'd assume) to balance weight between cars, only four of the five have diesel engines. That means each one needs to be more powerful to allow for this, and I'd imagine there will be some performance requirements with one engine out. Indeed, while the 810 has a slight power advantage with all engines working, the 222 is slightly ahead with one out.

 

[YamYamDave]

I'm not familiar with the specific differences between the Hitachi classes but is there a reason why suggested Unreliability of the EMR 810s may have bypassed the Avanti 805/807 introductions?

In short heat dissipation, seems to be the common cause across the various problems disrupting the electric systems in the units. Drivers in the recent heat wave have commented the in cab temperature of the 810 has been unbearable, yet classes 800-807 are not afflicted by this problem.