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Is Stratford upon Avon destined to remain as poorly connected as it is currently?

Zomboid

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The current Cowley Branch is essentially single track from just after the junction until the BMW factory. I've not seen anything in the coverage to suggest any double track apart from to allow a freight train past the Cowley station.
I think the idea is that Cowley resembles Alloa, and the rest of the branch is single. There will be a new running line from Oxford to Kennington, though. Any Stratford service probably wouldn't fit down there, and I don't see why it would need to anyway.

If Oxford doesn't work then Didcot would be a more sensible terminus, especially if electrification ever happens and there's no need to split the GWML locals there any longer. Or even work it as an extension of the Bristol to Oxford service. I'm sure Bath to Stratford would be a popular journey for tourists.
 
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AlastairFraser

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Might still be a useful place to 'lose' such a Stratford train to avoid a long turnback layover in platform capacity-constrained Oxford station. Additional capacity on the Cowley branch (likely an extra platform at the terminus), specifically to cater for Stratford trains in addition to some EWRs could be plausible.
True, although it will be replacing the Banbury stopper in some hours and that's already factored into capacity calculations. An Abingdon branch would also be a good place to send trains away from Oxford station, but sadly I don't see it on the cards yet.
Remember it will be built with the absolute minimum infrastructure for the service spec. Bumping up to 4tph would need something extra than whats being provided
Perhaps not 4tph, but there's nothing to say that 2tph couldn't be linked to existing services (i.e. EWR) or a Stratford regional service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

If Oxford doesn't work then Didcot would be a more sensible terminus, especially if electrification ever happens and there's no need to split the GWML locals there any longer. Or even work it as an extension of the Bristol to Oxford service. I'm sure Bath to Stratford would be a popular journey for tourists.
Didcot is good for connectivity, I won't lie, but if you're proposing incorporating the stops between Didcot and Oxford, that could lead to reliability issues. You're already stitching together several services, although Chiltern's good punctuality in general helps.
 

JamesT

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Perhaps not 4tph, but there's nothing to say that 2tph couldn't be linked to existing services (i.e. EWR) or a Stratford regional service.
But it’s already going to be linked to existing services. The plan for the Cowley branch is to take the current Marylebone trains.
If you’re sending something else down the branch, either you’re needing more infrastructure, or where are you sending the Marylebone trains?
 

AlastairFraser

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But it’s already going to be linked to existing services. The plan for the Cowley branch is to take the current Marylebone trains.
If you’re sending something else down the branch, either you’re needing more infrastructure, or where are you sending the Marylebone trains?
Sorry, I was unaware that it was an official plan to send Marylebone trains through to Cowley. Is terminating in Oxford as current not an option?
 

Zomboid

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In due course Oxford will have the Didcot to Banbury/ Worcester through trains, terminators from Didcot, Bristol and Paddington plus the 2 tph from Marylebone, 2tph from MK and 2tph from Cambridge to handle, and the maximum layout it looks likely to get is 4 through platforms and 1 MK/ Marylebone/ North facing bay.

Cowley will take 2tph from somewhere but that's still a lot for the station to handle before adding another terminator from the Banbury direction.
 

Mgameing123

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In my opinion, Stratford upon avon is one of the U.K.’s best tourist sites not only is it the birthplace of Shakespeare but it’s just generally a nice town.
I suspect the vast majority of people who visit though don’t use the train because it’s so poorly connected to the rest of the rail network, there are frequent services to Birmingham, but services to London and Leamington spa are intermittent.
is there any way the situation can be improved, or any future plans for the station, I know the honeyburn rail link has been cancelled now which could’ve given it a direct connection to Worcester and Cheltenham spa but how about extending one of the Leamington spa stoppers in peak times to Coventry or even Nuneaton?
another idea I had, which is completely out there is a service during summer and tourist seasons from Stratford to Oxford via Banbury, with a potential to extend further to either Reading, Milton Keynes or possibly Bristol.
Obviously that’s very unlikely to happen, but what other prospects are there?
Maybe not a direct service to London but from what I see it’s definitely possible to up the service to Leamington to 1 train per hour by having trains cross at Wilmcote and between Hatton and Warwick. An hourly service would definitely be far more attractive than a 2 hourly service.

One last thing: The last train of the day is too early at 18:31.
 

Bletchleyite

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Sorry, I was unaware that it was an official plan to send Marylebone trains through to Cowley. Is terminating in Oxford as current not an option?

Is it not more the case that they are an easy option to serve Cowley (as distinct from say GWR running a shuttle using a 165) and allows Cowley to have a direct, if slow, London service?

Stratford does of course have the half hourly (ish, it's xx43/xx08) Birmingham service which seems to be being almost completely disregarded in this thread - while a bit slow is that not a reasonable option for London given the frequency? It also gives the option to connect either with an Avanti service or to save money with WMT. I'm not sure via Brum is a permitted route but you can of course split.
 

Mgameing123

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Is it not more the case that they are an easy option to serve Cowley (as distinct from say GWR running a shuttle using a 165) and allows Cowley to have a direct, if slow, London service?

Stratford does of course have the half hourly (ish, it's xx43/xx08) Birmingham service which seems to be being almost completely disregarded in this thread - while a bit slow is that not a reasonable option for London given the frequency? It also gives the option to connect either with an Avanti service or to save money with WMT. I'm not sure via Brum is a permitted route but you can of course split.
I guess it is a reasonable route but you’re adding 20 minutes to the journey time. Though I do believe a direct London service would be more popular. I’ve seen it first hand on a line not too far from me.

Vejle - Struer usually is just its own system with an hourly service where can change to the Intercity trains to Copenhagen at Vejle. Though there are 4 direct trains a day from Struer to Copenhagen and these direct trains are so high in demand that they need to run 6 car trains on these services vs the usual 2 cars on the normal services.

I could definitely see something like this happening with the Stratford branch as Stratford is popular tourist destination and definitely would be a more appealing day out if it was a short direct train ride away from London.
 

Virginfan123

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Maybe not a direct service to London but from what I see it’s definitely possible to up the service to Leamington to 1 train per hour by having trains cross at Wilmcote and between Hatton and Warwick. An hourly service would definitely be far more attractive than a 2 hourly service
Ideally, you would re-install the second track between Hatton West Junction and Bearley Junction.

The current single track stretch takes roughly 8-10 minutes to cover depending on stopping at Bearley and Claverdon. With 2 trains an hour traversing the line in each direction, the line would be occupied for around 40 minutes for each hour. With pathing allowing and resilience factored in, it makes the line extremley constrained and difficult to timetable. Any delay would have an extremely large impact.
 

The Planner

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Ideally, you would re-install the second track between Hatton West Junction and Bearley Junction.

The current single track stretch takes roughly 8-10 minutes to cover depending on stopping at Bearley and Claverdon. With 2 trains an hour traversing the line in each direction, the line would be occupied for around 40 minutes for each hour. With pathing allowing and resilience factored in, it makes the line extremley constrained and difficult to timetable. Any delay would have an extremely large impact.
66% occupation isn't horrendous.
 

172007

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66% occupation isn't horrendous.
We do wait sometimes on the up Dorridge to enter the branch because the north curve is only a single line and Chilterns quite often wait at Bearley Jct to enter the single line too.

If the frequency was increased the north curve being single line would be a performance issue on the Up Dorridge (Dorridge to Leamington)
 
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AlastairFraser

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Is it not more the case that they are an easy option to serve Cowley (as distinct from say GWR running a shuttle using a 165) and allows Cowley to have a direct, if slow, London service?

Stratford does of course have the half hourly (ish, it's xx43/xx08) Birmingham service which seems to be being almost completely disregarded in this thread - while a bit slow is that not a reasonable option for London given the frequency? It also gives the option to connect either with an Avanti service or to save money with WMT. I'm not sure via Brum is a permitted route but you can of course split.
I see the point of it being an easy option - but it would be very slow in comparison to changing at Oxford. What stops an EWR extension, or what makes extending the Marylebone easier?
Apologies if this has already been answered on here.
 

The Planner

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We do wait sometimes on the up Dorridge to enter the branch because the north curve is only a single line and Chilterns quite often wait at Bearley Jct to enter the single line too.

If the frequency was increased the north curve being single line would be a performance issue on the Up Dorridge (Dorridge to Leamington)
Thats fine, but thats a performance issue, not always a timetable one. You could potentially work your way out of that by not having one off the branch to Dorridge vs one on.
 

overthere 2

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What's the plan for the roundabouts? The other direction of traffic?



I like your enthusiasm, but your Stratford road narrowing idea is not feasible sadly.
No highways department would agree to running an active railway that close to a main road, let alone converting a road to timed single track one way operation.



Recently the government announced that were scrapping road building/improvement plans to fund defence and I found it interesting that no car magazines or other motoring supporters kicked up a fuss and I reckon it is because even the most petrol of petrol heads realise we can't go on building endless roads for endless traffic and that rebuilding/new heavy rail is the only way to go to move people and freight around.

The problem is that the powers that be are still keen on roads/don't want to spend upfront costs on building railways so all it takes is a road - either crossing the track bed or on it, a house, factory, warehouse or any other building foot/cycle path or any other excuse and 99% of the time it is "No" to the railway or if by some miracle its "Yes" to the railway then we usually end up with a bodge job.
For example while it is good Portishead is coming back on to the network the same mistake is being made that was made when the railways where originally being built and that is building the railway station on the outskirts of where it is purported to serve, and while it was not a major problem back then because if you did not use the train your only options were to walk or ride a horse these days the options are car or bus/coach. So what should have happened is the line should have been built all the way back to Portishead high street with a level crossing/bridge/tunnel/road closed and either the petrol station or the shop unit next door demolished for the station site.

What we need is a total mind reset and it needs to be 100% of the time "Yes" to railway's and "Tough" to whatever is in the way. So concerning Stratford, at the southern end of Seven Meadows road there is space to either build a road over bridge or a tunnel under. With the road its self, either close the road completely or put those concrete barriers you see on motorway central reservations between the road and the railway to stop someone accidentally/deliberately driving on to the tracks then top it with a high fence.

At the northern end of Seven Meadows road it would be a tight squeeze to fit a in a bridge/tunnel in, so I saw a picture somewhere a while ago where in another country they had put a heavy rail/tramline straight through the centre of a roundabout so I don't see why it cant be done here.





They aren't cranes or crane operators, which is one major expense.


You are right, it is unlikely GWSR have a qualified crane operator in their volunteer workforce let alone a big enough crane.

I am not a engineer or a builder and the following is based on the odd visit I've made to the railway, walking a small bit of the track bed between Broadway and Honeybourne and Google maps but it seems to me that virtually all the bridges on the railway are built in the same way, namely brick abutments and then steel girders for the span and then a few more bricks to hold it all in place

With the props holding up the metal spans it suggests to me that the brickwork/foundations are fine and it is the metal spans that are the problem because, say, the foundation's were collapsing then eventually you would end up with vehicles having to "climb" up the sinking foundations, "bump" up on to the lip caused buy the sinking foundations, on to the supported metal part and then "bump" down again on to the sinking foundations at the other end and that would be dangerous particularly for cyclists.

So with all the knowledge the volunteer's have gained with all the issues that they have had then I am guessing what would need to happen is: Remove the holding it together bricks, lift out the old girders, tidy up the odd brick that looks a bit dodgy, then put in new girders and put the bricks back to hold it all together, therefore I would have thought the only cost's would be for some new steel girders and a crane to lift the old ones out and the new ones in with the volunteers doing the rest.





It sounds unusual for NR to not want full ownership.


The government aren't likely to to want to "nationalise" a heritage railway with all the costs and hassle it would entail and then rebuild it to "proper railway" standard's but as I pointed out in the Go-Op thread about Minehead: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...proved-by-orr-access-rights-now-lapsed.277000 page 10 post #356 onwards if they could "rent" a heritage railway for morning/evening commuter services and make a allowance that as the trains would be modern with all the safety features and the train crew would be properly trained staff then they could run at at least 40mph then it is a cheap and easy way to bring back a railway.





To all the people discussing about services to Oxford, Cowley, London etc if this was built and a way could be found to either keep one lane of the road and put two tracks down or scrap the road and put two tracks down then services to Oxford, Cowley, London etc should be looked at but if there is only room for one track then because of capacity constraints the priority should be morning/evening commuter services Winchcombe - Toddington, day services Broadway/Honeybourne then Stratford and stations to Birmingham because as I say the only way this would have any chance of ever being built is if it can show that it removes traffic coming into/passing through Stratford rather than traffic that is already going away (driving to Honeybourne to catch a train or driving all the way to Oxford, Cowley etc).
 

SynthD

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Trains between Stratford and London reinstated​

Two services will run a day, working around Royal Shakespeare Company matinee performances
By Shannen Headley
West Midlands
Published
28 July 2026
Daily trains running between Stratford-upon-Avon and London are to be reinstated.
Chiltern Railways said a direct return service would run between the town and London Marylebone from 14 December.
MP Manuela Perteghella said she welcomed the "milestone" news after campaigning for the change since she was elected two years ago.
To begin with, there will be two services a day, working around Royal Shakespeare Company matinee performances on weekdays.
Perteghella said she had been meeting with bosses at Chiltern Railways and made the case in parliament to reinstate the direct trains.
She said: "This is a great win for local businesses such as shops, cafes and restaurants and our theatres, and it offers more choice to local people who want to visit the capital.
Commenting on the ongoing campaign for more commuter trains, she added: "Commuters may be able to catch one direct train during weekdays, but we need more services to make this a reality for people wishing to commute for work.
"The welcome return of direct trains to London is a milestone in my campaign, but I want to see more services for my constituents."
The Liberal Democrat MP said she would continue to campaign for more services from Stratford to Birmingham, London and Oxford.
A Chiltern Railways spokesperson said its upcoming timetable change in December would provide 10,000 additional seats each weekday across the whole network.
The company added: "The timetable is currently being finalised and we will share further details, including service times, in the coming months."
These two are new in December.
Marylebone 9:30 - Stratford 11:18
Stratford 14:32 - Marylebone 16:40
Plus the two existing late night slow services.

That doesn't seem useful to matinee (1:15) performance viewers wanting a direct trip home.
 

RT4038

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Recently the government announced that were scrapping road building/improvement plans to fund defence and I found it interesting that no car magazines or other motoring supporters kicked up a fuss and I reckon it is because even the most petrol of petrol heads realise we can't go on building endless roads for endless traffic and that rebuilding/new heavy rail is the only way to go to move people and freight around.


The scrapping of road building/improvement plans for defence may well be accepted at this point in time. I doubt very much that your inference ' and that rebuilding/new heavy rail is the only way to go to move people and freight around' is accepted at all. It certainly is unlikely that heavy rail will have anything but peripheral use for defence.

Stratford upon Avon is nowhere near big enough to justify this kind of expenditure.
 
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The exile

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For example while it is good Portishead is coming back on to the network the same mistake is being made that was made when the railways where originally being built and that is building the railway station on the outskirts of where it is purported to serve, and while it was not a major problem back then because if you did not use the train your only options were to walk or ride a horse these days the options are car or bus/coach. So what should have happened is the line should have been built all the way back to Portishead high street with a level crossing/bridge/tunnel/road closed
With all due respect to Portishead (and there is a relevance to Stratford here) it is primarily going to be a source of traffic rather than a destination so proximity to the “centre” is of less relevance than somewhere like Stratford. A station on the 2nd site would be 800m further away from the northwestern residential areas and still ge not particularly convenient for the coastal suburbs down towards Redcliffe Bay. For Stratford, inbound traffic is a major consideration.
 

SynthD

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It doesn’t really follow anything, there’s a large gap leaving Marylebone on the mainline 9:30. By 11 it’s at Hatton, there is a relatively close sequence of XC, this and a regular Chiltern to Birmingham. Maybe it’s the best they can do in off and shoulder peak.
 

jimm

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Tbh a 2 car 165 isn't the worst idea - the Banbury to Leam Spa section might be a bit crowded, but the rest should be fine with a 2 car. Banbury to Leam Spa is only 20 mins anyway, not long to stand if you had to.
Maybe I'm misremembering, but I think the old TOC Thames Trains used to operate that Oxford to Stratford upon Avon service with a 2 car Turbo before it was merged with First Great Western.
I think an hourly service from Stratford to Oxford, in lieu of the Leamington shuttle, would be of most benefit. It connects to Leamington and Banbury for onward Chiltern fasts (quickest way to London) - but then also in lieu of any Oxford-Banbury stoppers - and delivers Oxford as the other major regional market for commuting/jobs, onward connections. It gives a regular hourly to those stations (KS/Heyford/Tackley) too.

In removing two shuttles (different TOCs for now, granted), and giving a lot more connections to the various spots en route, it has multiple purposes and is also more efficienct.

And in the process, it provides the tourist connection between Stratford and Oxford, which might be anecdotally useful and keep a few coaches and buses off the roads.

Could be run by Chiltern into the bays - or into a permissive country-end P4, if that ever happens! 3-4 cars would be fine.

Let's see, you're a tourist visiting Stratford-upon-Avon from London for the day - do you expect:

a. A direct, reasonably fast through train service to one of the UK's top tourist destinations?
b. Being tipped out at Oxford, Banbury or Leamington Spa to be wedged into a two-car Turbo? Which is pretty much the way that Chiltern currently operates it anyway, with a Leamingon-Stratford shuttle.

Or do you just get on a coach up the M40 that drops you off in the centre of Stratford? Like most tourists do right now, due in part to Chilltern's cack-handed way of operating London-Stratford services for the past 20+ years, with constant chopping and changing of service speed, frequency, calling patterns, etc, thus alienating the types of group travel operators that Thames had carefully cultivated back in the late 1990s.

Frankly, it feels as though Chiltern still resent being instructed by the Strategic Rail Authority to take over providing the London-Stratford link shortly after First Great Western Link was created in 2004, hence the miserable service now offered, irrespective of any grudging 'improvements' offered from December.

The Thames Trains' Paddington to Stratford services were through trains, with many operating between London and Oxford coupled to Cotswold Line services (and XC only operated hourly then, so there were a lot more services between Oxford and Banbury operated by Thames Trains than GWR runs now). Worked by 166s, the typical timings were around 2 hours 15 or 20 minutes end-to-end, despite going the Great Way Round via Reading and Oxford and being limited to 90mph. Five trains each way on weekdays, and three to Stratford on Saturdays with five the other way, with one each way on Sundays.

I wonder what timing an 80x could manage these days? Never mind what it could do if it was able to run from Oxford via the Cotswold Line, then take a right turn on a reinstated Honeybourne triangle and reach Stratford via Long Marston.

As for all the doom and gloom merchants in this thread going on about all the things that just can't be done to get the railway back through the west side of Stratford - just wait and see what the locals say they want to happen once the new settlement at Long Marston grows and grows and grows, along with all the resulting car traffic on an inadequate road network. Depending on which version of the development it ends up as, the population there could be anything from 8,000 to 25,000 people - which is not far short of the current population of Stratford-upon-Avon itself.

A line ending in a car park at the edge of Stratford is not going to cut it, unlike a reinstated rail line to the existing station, which would offer conectivity from Stratford and the Long Marston settlement across the whole area between Worcester and Leamington/Coventry, up to Birmingham and down into the Cotswolds (where Moreton-in-Marsh is set to grow substantiually in the draft version of the new Local Plan there) and Oxford, etc.
 

RT4038

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Let's see, you're a tourist visiting Stratford-upon-Avon from London for the day - do you expect:

a. A direct, reasonably fast through train service to one of the UK's top tourist destinations?
b. Being tipped out at Oxford, Banbury or Leamington Spa to be wedged into a two-car Turbo? Which is pretty much the way that Chiltern currently operates it anyway, with a Leamingon-Stratford shuttle.

Or do you just get on a coach up the M40 that drops you off in the centre of Stratford? Like most tourists do right now, due in part to Chilltern's cack-handed way of operating London-Stratford services for the past 20+ years, with constant chopping and changing of service speed, frequency, calling patterns, etc, thus alienating the types of group travel operators that Thames had carefully cultivated back in the late 1990s.
You'll most likely take (c) - the coach tour, that picks you up near your hotel and drops in the centre of Stratford, with a cheery driver who'll make sure you get to visit the right places and be on the coach for the return.
Only the hardy would elect to travel by train, through service or not, even though it is probably faster than a coach - but unreliable and take it or leave it.

I wonder what timing an 80x could manage these days? Never mind what it could do if it was able to run from Oxford via the Cotswold Line, then take a right turn on a reinstated Honeybourne triangle and reach Stratford via Long Marston.

As for all the doom and gloom merchants in this thread going on about all the things that just can't be done to get the railway back through the west side of Stratford - just wait and see what the locals say they want to happen once the new settlement at Long Marston grows and grows and grows, along with all the resulting car traffic on an inadequate road network. Depending on which version of the development it ends up as, the population there could be anything from 8,000 to 25,000 people - which is not far short of the current population of Stratford-upon-Avon itself.

A line ending in a car park at the edge of Stratford is not going to cut it, unlike a reinstated rail line to the existing station, which would offer conectivity from Stratford and the Long Marston settlement across the whole area between Worcester and Leamington/Coventry, up to Birmingham and down into the Cotswolds (where Moreton-in-Marsh is set to grow substantiually in the draft version of the new Local Plan there) and Oxford, etc.

I think it is mythical to think that tourists give much concern to overall speed of the train over a tour coach. The residents of the Long Marston development will likely mainly work in places inaccessible by rail (even if all the former railways of Stratford were reinstated) - out of town business parks and the like, or they'll be working from home. A good road link across the fields to Honeybourne Station, and a new western by pass to link with Stratford and Warwick Parkway Stations, should be more than adequate.
 

Russel

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You'll most likely take (c) - the coach tour, that picks you up near your hotel and drops in the centre of Stratford, with a cheery driver who'll make sure you get to visit the right places and be on the coach for the return.

The coach will also probably be significantly cheaper and you won't run the risk of getting caught up in delays, cancellations and being threatened with prosecution for accidently trying to use a super off peak ticket on an off peak service...
 

RT4038

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The coach will also probably be significantly cheaper and you won't run the risk of getting caught up in delays, cancellations and being threatened with prosecution for accidently trying to use a super off peak ticket on an off peak service...

I think that is a bit of hyperbole ..... the coach may or may not be cheaper, but it almost certainly be more convenient and certain. Only British rail enthusiasts (or tourists who have already sampled the British railway system and had a bad experience) would consider the possibility of delays and cancellations as an issue. (Of course, delays may happen with the coach, but the driver will be looking after you - he'll be wanting his tip at the end). As for ticketing - I have made many trips on foreign railways (indeed making trips that other tourists would normally do on a coach tour) and have never considered the possibility of a ticketing irregularity, so I don't think tourists coming here will either. This forum makes a five course meal out of such things, which I expect occur to foreign tourists very rarely indeed.

Which is probably why the 'carefully cultivated' Chiltern tourist business wasn't worth the expense of catering for.
 

Starmill

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Let's see, you're a tourist visiting Stratford-upon-Avon from London for the day - do you expect:

a. A direct, reasonably fast through train service to one of the UK's top tourist destinations?
b. Being tipped out at Oxford, Banbury or Leamington Spa to be wedged into a two-car Turbo? Which is pretty much the way that Chiltern currently operates it anyway, with a Leamingon-Stratford shuttle.

Or do you just get on a coach up the M40 that drops you off in the centre of Stratford? Like most tourists do right now, due in part to Chilltern's cack-handed way of operating London-Stratford services for the past 20+ years, with constant chopping and changing of service speed, frequency, calling patterns, etc, thus alienating the types of group travel operators that Thames had carefully cultivated back in the late 1990s.

Frankly, it feels as though Chiltern still resent being instructed by the Strategic Rail Authority to take over providing the London-Stratford link shortly after First Great Western Link was created in 2004, hence the miserable service now offered, irrespective of any grudging 'improvements' offered from December.

The Thames Trains' Paddington to Stratford services were through trains, with many operating between London and Oxford coupled to Cotswold Line services (and XC only operated hourly then, so there were a lot more services between Oxford and Banbury operated by Thames Trains than GWR runs now). Worked by 166s, the typical timings were around 2 hours 15 or 20 minutes end-to-end, despite going the Great Way Round via Reading and Oxford and being limited to 90mph. Five trains each way on weekdays, and three to Stratford on Saturdays with five the other way, with one each way on Sundays.

I wonder what timing an 80x could manage these days? Never mind what it could do if it was able to run from Oxford via the Cotswold Line, then take a right turn on a reinstated Honeybourne triangle and reach Stratford via Long Marston.

As for all the doom and gloom merchants in this thread going on about all the things that just can't be done to get the railway back through the west side of Stratford - just wait and see what the locals say they want to happen once the new settlement at Long Marston grows and grows and grows, along with all the resulting car traffic on an inadequate road network. Depending on which version of the development it ends up as, the population there could be anything from 8,000 to 25,000 people - which is not far short of the current population of Stratford-upon-Avon itself.

A line ending in a car park at the edge of Stratford is not going to cut it, unlike a reinstated rail line to the existing station, which would offer conectivity from Stratford and the Long Marston settlement across the whole area between Worcester and Leamington/Coventry, up to Birmingham and down into the Cotswolds (where Moreton-in-Marsh is set to grow substantiually in the draft version of the new Local Plan there) and Oxford, etc.
Stratford-upon-Avon has a 3km catchment of, at the very most generous, 29k people. Neither the tourism industry nor the 29k people living there are enough to sustain an express service to London. Unfortunately the fact that you're salty about changes from 2004 really does nothing to improve the case.

You often post how great GWR are and how dreadful Chiltern are. I would suggest that your agenda in this regard has completely clouded your objective view of how to best serve the town. You made up your mind 20 years ago and are just looking for anything to support your existing conclusion.
 

Russel

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I think that is a bit of hyperbole ..... the coach may or may not be cheaper, but it almost certainly be more convenient and certain. Only British rail enthusiasts (or tourists who have already sampled the British railway system and had a bad experience) would consider the possibility of delays and cancellations as an issue. (Of course, delays may happen with the coach, but the driver will be looking after you - he'll be wanting his tip at the end). As for ticketing - I have made many trips on foreign railways (indeed making trips that other tourists would normally do on a coach tour) and have never considered the possibility of a ticketing irregularity, so I don't think tourists coming here will either. This forum makes a five course meal out of such things, which I expect occur to foreign tourists very rarely indeed.

Which is probably why the 'carefully cultivated' Chiltern tourist business wasn't worth the expense of catering for.

British Nationals also do coach trips too, many of whom will be very familiar with the rail system and it's many downsides compared to coach travel.

I'd love to advocate for rail travel, but it's getting harder and harder.
 

SynthD

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Other than some exceptions like Silverstone, coaches typically operate alongside rail, usually less popular. The shuttle from the south or the WMR from Birmingham can still be improved on, as they are trialling.
 

RT4038

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Other than some exceptions like Silverstone, coaches typically operate alongside rail, usually less popular. The shuttle from the south or the WMR from Birmingham can still be improved on, as they are trialling.

In the case of Stratford, we are not talking about scheduled coach services. This is specifically tourist coaches doing day trips from London - pick up at hotels, a sort of package tour. In this particular case, much more popular than tourists making the day trip by train.

British Nationals also do coach trips too, many of whom will be very familiar with the rail system and it's many downsides compared to coach travel.

I'd love to advocate for rail travel, but it's getting harder and harder.

Yes, British nationals do, but the sort of coach trips they usually do as domestic tourists are generally not suited to rail travel at all. Travelling on scheduled coach services is a different kettle of fish...
 

Dr Hoo

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Stratford-upon-Avon has a 3km catchment of, at the very most generous, 29k people. Neither the tourism industry nor the 29k people living there are enough to sustain an express service to London. Unfortunately the fact that you're salty about changes from 2004 really does nothing to improve the case.

You often post how great GWR are and how dreadful Chiltern are. I would suggest that your agenda in this regard has completely clouded your objective view of how to best serve the town. You made up your mind 20 years ago and are just looking for anything to support your existing conclusion.
I suppose that Newquay is a comparator, with a population in the 20,000s but through trains to there serve far larger settlements en route as well. And the market is totally different in terms of a very long road journey from London and it being dependent on staycations rather than day trips.

Once everything is under GBR I suppose that from a purely marketing perspective it might be possible to run a ‘culture train’ from Paddington, Old Oak Common and possibly Slough/Windsor with a focus on day trips to Oxford OR Leamington OR Warwick OR Stratford with a commentary and consistent provision of light refreshments. But the problem then is one of resource utilisation with how to use the set productively for the rest of the day and how to resource a suitably-timed return working.

Just trying to think a bit out of the box.
 

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