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Mid-2000s WCML local services

A S Leib

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Looking at the 2007 Project Mapping TOC map, it's interesting how different WCML operators were from now. (For all of these questions, I'm assuming that said map is correct.)
  • Southern only went to Watford Junction. From memory it went to Rugby at one point; when was that, and when was terminating at Milton Keynes introduced (before being cut to limited Hemel Hempstead services then Watford Junction in / after 2022)?
  • Given the lack of overlap between Silverlink and Central Trains at Northampton / Rugby, were there no through regional trains between Euston and New Street or Crewe at the time? Did Wolverton have any direct Rugby services, or only Northampton ones?
  • Did Trent Valley stoppers terminate at Rugby or Northampton, and go straight from Stafford to Crewe or via Stoke-on-Trent?
  • Where did the Central Trains Preston services go, and how frequent were they?
  • As an extra question, I'm guessing that then-Central Trains Liverpool to Norwich services went via Derby rather than Alfreton; did they call anywhere except Chesterfield between Derby and Sheffield?
 
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Polarbear

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My recollection on some of your questions:

Silverlink went through to New Street on at least an hourly frequency. They were usually semi-fast between New Street & Rugby, then stops around the Northampton loop, semi-fast to Euston.

Trent Valley stoppers (the few that were around then) were limited to Rugby-Stafford. Often a single 153 too!

There was only ever one northbound service to Preston. It returned empty.

The Liverpool-Norwich service was little different to todays pattern, though I recall an attempt was made to send some services via Derby. That didn’t last long though. Ironic that in 2007, Central sometimes used Turbostars & almost 20 years on, they’re back with EMR!
 

MikeWM

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Looking at the 2007 Project Mapping TOC map, it's interesting how different WCML operators were from now. (For all of these questions, I'm assuming that said map is correct.)
  • As an extra question, I'm guessing that then-Central Trains Liverpool to Norwich services went via Derby rather than Alfreton; did they call anywhere except Chesterfield between Derby and Sheffield?

I'm fairly sure that's an error on the map - I've been getting this service intermittently since the late 90s, and I don't believe it has ever been regularly routed via Derby, always via Alfreton.

I don't have a late 2007 timetable to hand but the December 2006-May 2007 timetable has them all going via Alfreton.
 

LowLevel

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Where did the Central Trains Preston services go, and how frequent were they?

- one train a day leaving Birmingham New Street at 1651 only calling at principle stations and back empty to I want to say Crewe. Finished when Central was split up.

As an extra question, I'm guessing that then-Central Trains Liverpool to Norwich services went via Derby rather than Alfreton; did they call anywhere except Chesterfield between Derby and Sheffield?

- over time they've gone via Derby with odd trains for odd periods but at that point they were running as they do now, but with more stops at Langley Mill and (along with a few Virgin XC/MML and the Northern Peak Chesterfield trains) Dronfield, until the Northern Notts - Leeds started.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Southern only went to Watford Junction. From memory it went to Rugby at one point; when was that, and when was terminating at Milton Keynes introduced (before being cut to limited Hemel Hempstead services then Watford Junction in / after 2022)?
Fairly sure that it was the predecessor train operating company Connex South Central that ran (broadly hourly) services between Rugby and Gatwick Airport (via Kensington Olympia), this in the late 1990s, until maybe 2000, using Class 319 dual voltage units.
 

Dave W

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Where did the Central Trains Preston services go, and how frequent were they?

- one train a day leaving Birmingham New Street at 1651 only calling at principle stations and back empty to I want to say Crewe. Finished when Central was split up.
That Central to Preston was an interesting one. Ran slightly earlier than the Voyager it replaced - the Voyagers left Wolves at :21 whilst this was timetabled for 17:10. My recollection is that a Voyager DID run in that slot but via Bescot although I may be hallucinating. At that time, the Voyagers didn't stop at Stafford either, whereas the Central did. My then girlfriend used to either get that or the 18:21.

My memory is shot, it seems, but am I right in thinking there was a very sparse Trent Valley local service pre upgrade? Aside from the minor stations all 4 of those serving the bigger towns had other rail connections (Rugeley, Lichfield, Tamworth and Nuneaton). Also the rattler to Rugeley continued to Stafford hourly I think - it must have hammered capacity crossing over the entire WCML. I had a cursory look for a timetable in 2006 and couldn't see a local train down the TV at all, but I thought there was a limited service? Was this unadvertised?
 

A S Leib

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Thank you for the answers so far.

From memory, Tring had fewer platforms and less capacity to reverse trains before the WCML upgrade around that time; what were the predecessors of the current 2 tph each from Euston to Tring and Milton Keynes just before the upgrade?
 

LowLevel

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That Central to Preston was an interesting one. Ran slightly earlier than the Voyager it replaced - the Voyagers left Wolves at :21 whilst this was timetabled for 17:10. My recollection is that a Voyager DID run in that slot but via Bescot although I may be hallucinating. At that time, the Voyagers didn't stop at Stafford either, whereas the Central did. My then girlfriend used to either get that or the 18:21.

My memory is shot, it seems, but am I right in thinking there was a very sparse Trent Valley local service pre upgrade? Aside from the minor stations all 4 of those serving the bigger towns had other rail connections (Rugeley, Lichfield, Tamworth and Nuneaton). Also the rattler to Rugeley continued to Stafford hourly I think - it must have hammered capacity crossing over the entire WCML. I had a cursory look for a timetable in 2006 and couldn't see a local train down the TV at all, but I thought there was a limited service? Was this unadvertised?
The Preston train ran in Central's standard Crewe/Liverpool path. The Virgin service still ran at 1703 from New St to Edinburgh but no idea if it ran via Bescot.

There was an hourly New Street to Stafford via Rugeley class 150.

By 2006 the local service on the Trent Valley between Stafford and Stoke and on the TV itself had been "temporarily withdrawn" for the West Coast upgrade. Prior to that both were rather sporadic 153s or 310/323 services running to different places.

The Stafford to Stoke service never came back and remains a bus to this day between Hanley and Stone.

It was about then the Trent Valley service returned with a few 350s a day between Crewe and Northampton, which eventually turned into the hourly service to London that now exists.
 

The exile

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Fairly sure that it was the predecessor train operating company Connex South Central that ran (broadly hourly) services between Rugby and Gatwick Airport (via Kensington Olympia), this in the late 1990s, until maybe 2000, using Class 319 dual voltage units.
Was later than 2000 IIRC.
 
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Fairly sure that it was the predecessor train operating company Connex South Central that ran (broadly hourly) services between Rugby and Gatwick Airport (via Kensington Olympia), this in the late 1990s, until maybe 2000, using Class 319 dual voltage units.
Was cut back from Rugby to Watford Junction from the May 2002 Timetable change (by which time it was through to Brighton) I was on the very last departure from Rugby on that last day, 2206 to East Croydon.
 

Dave W

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By 2006 the local service on the Trent Valley between Stafford and Stoke and on the TV itself had been "temporarily withdrawn" for the West Coast upgrade. Prior to that both were rather sporadic 153s or 310/323 services running to different places.

Thanks - I was pretty certain there were 153s involved and I wasn't making that up!

And yes - my poor wording - I only saw the 1651 CT to Preston as "replacing" the Voyager at that time because it called instead of the Voyager at Wolves.
 

Bletchleyite

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The Preston service can't have lasted long?

I think it lasted into LM days - I'm near sure it featured on the above door maps.

I'm not 100% on these odd workings though. But in terms of the general service:

Pre WCRM there were 2tph (I think) Euston-Brum semifast. These, unlike now, didn't call at local stations north of Rugby during the day, though may have done at less busy times (I didn't use them often).

During WCRM (West Coast Route Modernisation) the service was split at Northampton, with only 1tph of Central Trains service from Northampton to Birmingham. I seem to recall though that some trains actually operated through on an unadvertised basis later on in that period, with a CT crew taking over from the Silverlink crew (and vice versa) at Northampton. This wasn't all trains though. Where it actually was separate this might have been the most reliable time for the south WCML as it was mostly self contained.

The Southern service pre WCRM went Rugby-Gatwick, during WCRM it was cut back to Watford, then quite a lot later it extended to MKC in place of one of the Euston stoppers. It is of course now back at Watford again. I'm less familiar with what happened at the bottom end as I've only ever really used it to Clapham and occasionally East Croydon.

With regard to the Crewe service, this was since BR days a 153 (or sometimes a 150 I guess as others have reported that) on a purely local service. The through service was a brainchild of London Midland whose franchise required them to operate a local service, but they decided to run it through to Euston as pseudo open access, which proved extremely successful. I don't recall the initial north of Northampton only workings, but the start of the hourly service post WCRM was in the form of an hourly 8 car which ran fast to MKC and Northampton, where it split to go to Birmingham and Crewe. I seem to recall Platform 5 at MKC was its main haunt once this was in place (it may even have been required to start it, I forget exact dates). Obviously this fairly quickly proved inadequate for demand which led to the later 8 and now 10/12 car workings and the separate Birminghams.

In latter LM days there were three through Birmingham-Euston services, two linked to fasts (Leighton and Euston) and one to a semifast (everything bar Cheddington, Apsley, Kings Langley and Bushey I think), this one was overtaken but was still part of the advertising, and was useful for Bletchley passengers.

I can't remember the situation with the local services before Tring got its reversing platform - I think they worked through to Bletchley? But I lived nearer MKC then so didn't really use Bletchley. In the days when the Virgin service was just one of each per hour plus a second Birmingham and Chester a few times a day there were possibly more fast line Silverlink services? I know there were in the peaks nonstop MKC-Euston Silverlink services, certainly, the loss of which (in favour of the Leighton Buzzard stop) was very controversial locally.
 

70014IronDuke

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  • As an extra question, I'm guessing that then-Central Trains Liverpool to Norwich services went via Derby rather than Alfreton; did they call anywhere except Chesterfield between Derby and Sheffield?
ITYWF in the earliest days of this service c 1988-92 time, perhaps 3-4 trains went via Derby and Belper in total per day. Certainly as I remember, in the evenings, because there were two HSTs on St Pancras-Nottingham turns which were extended to Leeds (for maintenance), BR diverted two of the Norwich - Liverpools via Derby.

I can't remember exactly if they did similar in the morning with up services, when the two HSTs from Leeds usually went via the Erewash into Nottingham and reversed to London, but I suspect at least one went via Derby.

At the same time, you should remember a number of the Liverpool - Norwich throughout the day went not via Grantham, but via Loughborough and Melton Mowbray, so if these services used the Derby line, they missed out Nottingham altogether.

I think by the mid-90s, certainly by 2000 or so, the powers at be decided to drop the Loughboro-Melton route entirely except for one or two very early workings from Nottingham and one evening return to Nottingham to retain route knowledge for diversions and emergencies.

Happy to be corrected if my memory is awry.
 

LowLevel

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It lasted until around 2008.
December 2008 timetable change I think. The first year of the EMT, LM and XC franchises was basically a transitional arrangement with the same timetables and crew working other company's trains (Eg EMT working to Birmingham, LM working Crewe to Derby etc). December 2008 was the full split.
 

Russel

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Strange to think that the Trent Valley services have gone from a sporadic 153 to an hourly 10 car London service... A real case of build it and they will come.

Are their any timetables for the Trent Valley service in the 153 era anywhere?
 

Bald Rick

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Pre WCRM there were 2tph (I think) Euston-Brum semifast. These, unlike now, didn't call at local stations north of Rugby during the day, though may have done at less busy times (I didn't use them often).

Hourly. xx36 off New St, calling International, Cov, then all stations to Leighton Buzzard via Northampton, thence Tring, Berko, Hemel, Watford, Euston.

Northbound was the xx54.

Journey time Euston - New St about 2h20, compared to 1h40ish for the West Coast / Virgin services.

The path in the opposite half hour between Cov and New St had the XC service in to/from Reading (and beyond)
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Strange to think that the Trent Valley services have gone from a sporadic 153 to an hourly 10 car London service... A real case of build it and they will come.

Are their any timetables for the Trent Valley service in the 153 era anywhere?
Pre 153s I remember the timetable was somewhat irregular with some services having different termini, ie terminating at either Nuneaton or Rugby at one end and Stafford/Stoke/Crewe at the other. Traction was a 2-car DMU from Tyseley. I actually used one early on a Saturday morning to pick up a railtour, probably at Tamworth.

December 2008 timetable change I think. The first year of the EMT, LM and XC franchises was basically a transitional arrangement with the same timetables and crew working other company's trains (Eg EMT working to Birmingham, LM working Crewe to Derby etc). December 2008 was the full split.
December 2008 was the start of Virgin's VHF timetable which finally allowed Pendolinos to be used to full effect. It also caused significant upheaval to Northern's service patterns in the North-West, eg no more Liverpool-Morecambe, complete retiming of everything west of Manchester Victoria, etc.
 

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