Settle and Carlisle Line

[46026]

Hi everyone,

Wilk be making my first trip on the Settle and Carlisle line in a couple of weeks.

I will be making a single journey from Leeds to Carlisle, my question is, which is the best side of the train to sit on for the scenery? Or is it great both sides?

Many thanks

 

[yorksrob]

For me, right hand side facing forwards is my favourite as you get more of the valley as well as the sweep of the Ribblehead viaduct and the vista of Ais Gill. That said, the other side has some spectacular views around Dent.

 

[Gwr12345]

For me, right hand side facing forwards is my favourite as you get more of the valley as well as the sweep of the Ribblehead viaduct and the vista of Ais Gill. That said, the other side has some spectacular views around Dent.

I'd concur with this. Depending on what service you're getting it may be possible to see out both sides anyway.
Right hand side is best from Settle to Blea Moor, then the left to past Garsdale, and once you're in Westmoreland the right goes back to being the best.

 

[46026]

Thanks for the useful info

 

[46026]

A great trip was had, tops of the hills in places covered in mist, fantastic signal boxes along the route as well. Had 2 x 158s with just 4 of us in the rear carriage for the whole journey (07:47 from Leeds. Thanks for the viewing suggestions.

 

[70014IronDuke]

A great trip was had, tops of the hills in places covered in mist, fantastic signal boxes along the route as well. Had 2 x 158s with just 4 of us in the rear carriage for the whole journey (07:47 from Leeds. Thanks for the viewing suggestions.

I'm sure we are all glad you enjoyed the trip, but news that there were just four of you in the rear carriage for the entire trip does not sound encouraging (especially in the summer season) for those of us who would like to see the route attracting healthy traffic numbers.

One of the units for this train comes from Sheffield, and another unit fresh from Neville Hill, I believe. I wonder if that affects the passenger loadings of the rear unit?

 

[46026]

I did stretch my legs and walk the length of the train after Garsdale and counted 57 on board, majority in the front 158.
I was surprised we didnt leave Leeds with the incoming set from Sheffield instead of waiting for the other set from the depot, time it had coupled up we left 20 minutes late. Guess the return working needs the 4 carriages maybe?

 

[yorksrob]

7:47 is quite an early start for leisure journeys. I'm sure later departures would have been busier (the 10:49 doesn't have empty carriages).

 

[46026]

That's good to hear, its a beautiful part of the country and anyone who hasnt been on the line should do it. We took the 0747 as needed to travel back to Euston then home to Devon.

 

[30907]

I'm sure we are all glad you enjoyed the trip, but news that there were just four of you in the rear carriage for the entire trip does not sound encouraging (especially in the summer season) for those of us who would like to see the route attracting healthy traffic numbers.

One of the units for this train comes from Sheffield, and another unit fresh from Neville Hill, I believe. I wonder if that affects the passenger loadings of the rear unit?

The second unit is I think seasonal during the week. The 0920 (booked 3) is busier and when a 2-car substitutes it can be very cosy.

 

[Iskra]

I'm sure we are all glad you enjoyed the trip, but news that there were just four of you in the rear carriage for the entire trip does not sound encouraging (especially in the summer season) for those of us who would like to see the route attracting healthy traffic numbers.

One of the units for this train comes from Sheffield, and another unit fresh from Neville Hill, I believe. I wonder if that affects the passenger loadings of the rear unit?

I think he means only 4 did the whole journey. I saw at least 30+ board that train at Leeds, so it’s not like it ran empty the full way! And the way the trains were joined together, more people got in the front unit than rear.

 

[46026]

Sorry maybe my wording wasn't very clear, yes most boarded at Leeds in the front set, when I said just 4 I meant at any point of the whole journey there was only 4 travelling in the very rear carriage where I was.

 

[railfan99]

I did stretch my legs and walk the length of the train after Garsdale and counted 57 on board, majority in the front 158.
I was surprised we didnt leave Leeds with the incoming set from Sheffield instead of waiting for the other set from the depot, time it had coupled up we left 20 minutes late. Guess the return working needs the 4 carriages maybe?

57 is quite impressive patronage, given it's not the busiest train of a summer day.

 

[70014IronDuke]

7:47 is quite an early start for leisure journeys. I'm sure later departures would have been busier (the 10:49 doesn't have empty carriages).

Yes and no. That is to say I agree for a leisure journey to the Dales - Ribblehead-Dent etc, but leisure (and other travel) do not just go to the Dales, as others in here have testified.

Indeed, (IIRC) your goodself wrote some time back that the 07.47 was the only effective train to do Leeds - Carlisle - Glasgow and back in a day, at least using the S&C and its rather cheap fares. (Of course there is the 05.xx off Leeds, but not many are going to opt for that before Skipton.)

And while Carlisle itself is not a huge draw, it is a hub for north Cumbria, the western end of the Tyne Valley and Dumfries/Annan. Whlle none of these are big draws to/from Leeds and Airedale, the small figures do add up.

Sorry maybe my wording wasn't very clear, yes most boarded at Leeds in the front set, when I said just 4 I meant at any point of the whole journey there was only 4 travelling in the very rear carriage where I was.

Well, it was pretty clear to me, even if it was somewhat surprising and disappointing.

The second unit is I think seasonal during the week. The 0920 (booked 3) is busier and when a 2-car substitutes it can be very cosy.

I think you are correct. But in addition, I believe the unit off Neville Hill is booked to arrive before the Sheffield train, in which case it presumably fills up first. This day it seems it was late arriving, if I've understood the OP properly.

I think he means only 4 did the whole journey.

It seems he didn't! But I agree, it does seem surprising. Perhaps people crowd into the front units to be the first to glimpse Whernside or whatever

I saw at least 30+ board that train at Leeds, so it’s not like it ran empty the full way! And the way the trains were joined together, more people got in the front unit than rear.

Oh, I never imagined the other carriages were completely empty, of course not.
Interesting to know how many of those 30+ you saw went bailed before Skipton.

57 is quite impressive patronage, given it's not the busiest train of a summer day.

I think we need to agree to differ on this point then, particularly on a summer day. The OP said he counted at Garsdale, so presumably it gained passengers on a net basis from the Eden Valley stops as it is the first train after the (very early) down commuter service. But I'd have hoped for bigger numbers over the top from the south on that train.

EDIT - at least the OP's train ran. Chaotic delays on the S&C for the past two evenings due to signal failures, according to RTT.

 

[Adam0984]

I'm sure we are all glad you enjoyed the trip, but news that there were just four of you in the rear carriage for the entire trip does not sound encouraging (especially in the summer season) for those of us who would like to see the route attracting healthy traffic numbers.

One of the units for this train comes from Sheffield, and another unit fresh from Neville Hill, I believe. I wonder if that affects the passenger loadings of the rear unit?

I worked this train today and was steady going up on the 07:47 but the return working the 10:58 Carlisle to Leeds was probably around 80% of seats taken on a 4 car on the core Appleby to Settle section with a pretty even mix of £1.50 sale tickets, advance tickets and normal walk up tickets

 

[A S Leib]

Tangentially related to S&C line trip planning, how late into the autumn (if it isn't all-year) does the 563 bus between Kirkby Stephen, Warcop (Eden Valley Railway), Appleby and Penrith run on Sundays? The Stagecoach timetable gives a start of next week for Sunday services.

 

[Rover]

I wonder what effect the withdrawal of the Settle and Carlisle Day Ranger will have on patronage?

 

[30907]

Tangentially related to S&C line trip planning, how late into the autumn (if it isn't all-year) does the 563 bus between Kirkby Stephen, Warcop (Eden Valley Railway), Appleby and Penrith run on Sundays? The Stagecoach timetable gives a start of next week for Sunday services.

According to dalesbus.org:

The first day of operation will be Sunday 19th July and the service will initially run on Sundays until November. It will also run on August Bank Holiday Monday. Depending on usage it may be extended further, or may be suspended for the Winter and return again at Easter 2027.

 

[A S Leib]

According to dalesbus.org:

Thank you.

 

[Bevan Price]

Thank you.

You can find the 563 bus timetable at

563 - Penrith - Kirkby Stephen Railway Station

Stagecoach Cumbria and Lancashire

bustimes.org

 

[70014IronDuke]

I worked this train today and was steady going up on the 07:47 but the return working the 10:58 Carlisle to Leeds was probably around 80% of seats taken on a 4 car on the core Appleby to Settle section with a pretty even mix of £1.50 sale tickets, advance tickets and normal walk up tickets

Thanks for reporting in on this. The up working sounds encouraging, but what are the £1.50 tickets? Some sort of special offer, I presume?

I'm sure that encourages bottoms on seats, but it can hardly cover wear and tear on the seats and the extra fuel to move the body mass over Ais Gill, I'd have thought!

 

[30907]

Thanks for reporting in on this. The up working sounds encouraging, but what are the £1.50 tickets? Some sort of special offer, I presume?

150th anniversary of the line.

 

[70014IronDuke]

150th anniversary of the line.

Ah, OK. so I looked this up on Northern and it said this offer was ending today!
But what exactly was the offer? £1.50 for travel between Carlisle and Settle, or all the way to Leeds?
Good enough if the former, absolute bargain if the latter.

 

[xotGD]

Ah, OK. so I looked this up on Northern and it said this offer was ending today!
But what exactly was the offer? £1.50 for travel between Carlisle and Settle, or all the way to Leeds?
Good enough if the former, absolute bargain if the latter.

To Leeds.

The £1.50 also applied to Airedale commuters into Leeds, as long as you caught a service from/to Carlisle. Saved me a few quid!

 

[70014IronDuke]

To Leeds.

The £1.50 also applied to Airedale commuters into Leeds, as long as you caught a service from/to Carlisle. Saved me a few quid!

Wow. Hope the trains were not too cosy then!

 

[30907]

Wow. Hope the trains were not too cosy then!

The up working is 4 cars, as is the 1648 down.

 

[Farigiraf]

I wonder what effect the withdrawal of the Settle and Carlisle Day Ranger will have on patronage?

It's probably net positive. It was a good value ticket for daytrippers from Leeds or Bradford, but the walk-up fares aren't too extortionate anyway, plus there are plenty of advances that are usually available. Travellers from anywhere else on the Northern network, including those from Manchester via the Dales Explorer, are better off with the Northern Explorer if they want unlimited travel.
The ticket wasn't particularly well advertised anyway, while the Northern Explorer is prominently advertised.

The people getting the most value out of the S&C Day Ranger, who do now face a price hike, were primarily station bashers. Walkers or other non-rail enthusiast tourists that want to visit more than 1 station can still get a walk-up return from e.g. Leeds to Appleby which allows BoJ at Settle, Ribblehead etc.

That's not to say that it was a good idea to withdraw the ticket in favour of the Northern Explorer - having both options won't make rail ticketing much more complicated than it already is - but if the condition (from the DfT?) was that a number of local rangers had to be withdrawn in order to introduce the Northern Explorer, then I'd say it was a decent trade-off.

 

[yorksrob]

The S&C is definitely not one of the routes that gives me headaches trying to get decent value for money.

 

[xotGD]

The up working is 4 cars

Usually. Always annoying when it is a 2, and I have to reject the 6 on the train in front because I have an Advance and end up on a wedge-out.

 

[Iskra]

Usually. Always annoying when it is a 2, and I have to reject the 6 on the train in front because I have an Advance and end up on a wedge-out.

If you ask the guard before boarding, common sense will likely prevail